Why doesn't the world's top theme park operator know how to operate theme parks?

[Stevek]

Simple point of comparison. During the 50th celebration, while there were some truly packed days, we would regularly show up mid-week and have zero problems finding a great parade or fireworks viewing spot. We could even show up on a Friday and have the same success. We went mid week during off season earlier this year and it was a nightmare. I will go to my grave with the opinion that the monthly payment plan has turned the park into what the "mall" was for many of us in the 80's. You need not look further than some of the twitter personalities that are there most every day. Why? Because it's their hangout.

Disney has allowed this population to grow and despite parking cost changes (no DTD, no add to certain levels of AP), people are still coming.

And given this increased attendance, they have absolutely failed to figure out how to handle it. If you are going to allow the parks to be flooded every day, you better staff appropriately and make sure your e-tickets aren't down on a regular basis.

 

[mickEblu]

I agree the implementation at DLR has been bad, but MagicBand is not any better. In practice I see the backup at the FP entrance to be just as long at WDW. You wouldn't believe how many people don't get the concept of scanning a band, admission ticket or whatever. I've waited 10 minutes at WDW just to scan into the attraction on a slow day. And this was recently where MB's have been around for a while.

I agree free FP is going away. Probably by the time Galaxy's Edge opens.

Really, the band gives people issues? Ok there is no hope for humanity.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I agree the implementation at DLR has been bad, but MagicBand is not any better. In practice I see the backup at the FP entrance to be just as long at WDW. You wouldn't believe how many people don't get the concept of scanning a band, admission ticket or whatever. I've waited 10 minutes at WDW just to scan into the attraction on a slow day. And this was recently where MB's have been around for a while.

I agree free FP is going away. Probably by the time Galaxy's Edge opens.

Really, the band gives people issues? Ok there is no hope for humanity.

I go three times a year to WDW and have never experienced such MB FP delays. There may be occasionally someone blocking the FP queue out of cluelessness, but that never took more the half a minute. I just squeeze past them while the'yre talking/arguing with the CMs.

And after the initial FP tapstile, I have never experienced the FP line backed up... except when the ride itself had issues. And when that happens, well, the ride's backed up and FP/MB had nothing to do with it... if there were no FP/MB, the ride would still be backed up.

 

[disneygeek90]

Does anyone know what the approx. % of people using MaxPass is? I would think a large amount of AP's wouldn't even bother.

 

[mickEblu]

I go three times a year to WDW and have never experienced such MB FP delays. There may be occasionally someone blocking the FP queue out of cluelessness, but that never took more the half a minute. I just squeeze past them while their talking/arguing with the CMs.

And after the initial FP tapstile, I have never experienced the FP line backed up... except when the ride itself had issues. And when that happens, well, the ride's backed up and FP/MB had nothing to do with it... if there were no FP/MB, the ride would still be backed up.

Faith in Humanity... restored.

 

[disneygeek90]

Really, the band gives people issues? Ok there is no hope for humanity.

It's not uncommon to see the FP touchpoint 10-12 people deep, sometimes even more depending on the day. Even more problematic when a CM is trying to inform them that they are at the wrong attraction or are too early, and the entire family of 4 with a stroller all stand there to listen without letting anyone else by.

 

[mickEblu]

It's not uncommon to see the FP touchpoint 10-12 people deep, sometimes even more depending on the day. Even more problematic when a CM is trying to inform them that they are at the wrong attraction or are too early, and the entire family of 4 with a stroller all stand there to listen without letting anyone else by.

Oh ya, there will always be people that block pathways and who are not aware of their surroundings. The question is if the issues at the touch point are because they aren't using the bands properly? The FP lines at DLR were running pretty smoothly until MaxPass was implemented. So maybe FP redemption is still something that requires a human being and is not a robots job yet.

 

[disneygeek90]

Oh ya, there will always be people that block pathways and who are not aware of their surroundings. The question is if the issues at the touch point are because they aren't using the bands properly? The FP lines at DLR were running pretty smoothly until MaxPass was implemented. So maybe FP redemption is still something that requires a human being and is not a robots job yet.

People sometimes awkwardly twist their arm around or don't accurately and flatly put "mickey to mickey" on the touchpoint. But I would say usually people get the hang of it after a time or two. There's just so many first timers and tourists you have to sometimes be patient while they get the hang of things.

 

[Phroobar]

All of the wifi and NFC data running through the air unencrypted is a great way to hack someone's smartphone. Disney World seems like a great place to just stand around hacking people's email and bank accounts connected to public wifi. People are smart enough to protect their connections. I really hope Disneyland doesn't install public wifi for MaxPass.

 

[shortstop]

Simple point of comparison. During the 50th celebration, while there were some truly packed days, we would regularly show up mid-week and have zero problems finding a great parade or fireworks viewing spot. We could even show up on a Friday and have the same success. We went mid week during off season earlier this year and it was a nightmare. I will go to my grave with the opinion that the monthly payment plan has turned the park into what the "mall" was for many of us in the 80's. You need not look further than some of the twitter personalities that are there most every day. Why? Because it's their hangout.

Disney has allowed this population to grow and despite parking cost changes (no DTD, no add to certain levels of AP), people are still coming.

And given this increased attendance, they have absolutely failed to figure out how to handle it. If you are going to allow the parks to be flooded every day, you better staff appropriately and make sure your e-tickets aren't down on a regular basis.

Agreed. Does anybody have a reasonable guess as to how much better crowding would be if they eliminated monthly payment plans and/or the lower tier APs?

 

[SoManyWasps]

All of the wifi and NFC data running through the air unencrypted is a great way to hack someone's smartphone. Disney World seems like a great place to just stand around hacking people's email and bank accounts connected to public wifi. People are smart enough to protect their connections. I really hope Disneyland doesn't install public wifi for MaxPass.

Google is already working on this. The Pixel has a WiFi assistant that automatically routes you through a VPN when you're on public WiFi. It's not perfect yet, but it's essentially a working tech demo for the next generation of mobile security protocols. Also, if you keep your banking info saved unencrypted on your cell phone, it's not a matter of if you get hacked, it's a matter of when. If you have to go through less than three layers of security (pin, password and biometric) to approve an NFC payment you're doing it wrong.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Agreed. Does anybody have a reasonable guess as to how much better crowding would be if they eliminated monthly payment plans and/or the lower tier APs?

This is about as reasonable a guess as I can muster, but for how much better crowding IS when they block out the lowest 3 passes (So Cal Select, So Cal, and Deluxe)...the answer is SO MUCH BETTER.

Case in point, over the D23 weekend, we went from the convention to the parks Saturday and Sunday afternoons and were treated to NOTHING over a 30 minute wait. On a weekend where you expect Disneyland to be flooded with people...the sheer fact was, it wasn't.

Even on some days when they allowed the Deluxe pass holders but neither of the So Cal levels, the parks are manageable. It's days when Disney literally opens the floodgates to all pass holders that you get claustrophobia inducing walkways and queues for attractions that are typically walk-ons.

 

[mickEblu]

This is about as reasonable a guess as I can muster, but for how much better crowding IS when they block out the lowest 3 passes (So Cal Select, So Cal, and Deluxe)...the answer is SO MUCH BETTER.

Case in point, over the D23 weekend, we went from the convention to the parks Saturday and Sunday afternoons and were treated to NOTHING over a 30 minute wait. On a weekend where you expect Disneyland to be flooded with people...the sheer fact was, it wasn't.

Even on some days when they allowed the Deluxe pass holders but neither of the So Cal levels, the parks are manageable. It's days when Disney literally opens the floodgates to all pass holders that you get claustrophobia inducing walkways and queues for attractions that are typically walk-ons.

The question is what percentage of guests would upgrade to Deluxe/ Signature or higher if the lower tier APs were eliminated? Then also, how many people would just pay with a credit card if the monthly payments were eliminated? I don't see the low interest on a relatively low principle being a huge deterrent. None of this matters because it doesn't seem that Disney has any plans of modifying the AP program in any sort of meaningful way.

 

[shortstop]

The question is what percentage of guests would upgrade to Deluxe/ Signature or higher if the lower tier APs were eliminated? Then also, how many people would just pay with a credit card if the monthly payments were eliminated? I don't see the low interest on a relatively low principle being a huge deterrent. None of this matters because it doesn't seem that Disney has any plans of modifying the AP program in any sort of meaningful way.

I have been kicking around the idea of an AP plan where you pay for the number of days you are going to visit and are limited to that number of visits. For example, you can buy a yearly 20 day ticket, 30 day, etc. I’m not sure how it would work but if you could somehow cap it at, say, 50 days (roughly once per week which should be plenty for most people) then maybe you can make a dent in crowd levels.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

The question is what percentage of guests would upgrade to Deluxe/ Signature or higher if the lower tier APs were eliminated? Then also, how many people would just pay with a credit card if the monthly payments were eliminated? I don't see the low interest on a relatively low principle being a huge deterrent. None of this matters because it doesn't seem that Disney has any plans of modifying the AP program in any sort of meaningful way.

That's true.

Honestly, I think TDA (and TWDC at large) needs a complete corporate gut job with people put into place who understand that these are ACTUALLY problems, and the philosophy of "it doesn't matter, we're making money" is a horrible way to run a business. Corporate should be taken to the parks during days like this, and made to stand in queues just to know what the customer deals with.

The issues you brought up are correct though. And furthermore, I'd say that even if people are "frustrated" to the point where they do end up cancelling their passes, there aren't a shortage of other people ready and willing to get passes for themselves. So, even if people threaten to leave, it's almost like Disney says, "Fine, leave! Someone else will gladly take your place."

I forget who said it earlier in this thread, but having an AP is almost a culture in itself, and somewhat of almost an entitlement. Like, "Hey, I own an Annual Passport, I expect the parks to maintain a certain level of quality and I never want the parks to be crowded the days I go."

Bubbles are bursting all around. But Disney isn't going to act on this. Instead, they'll just raise normal ticket prices.

 

[Stevek]

The question is what percentage of guests would upgrade to Deluxe/ Signature or higher if the lower tier APs were eliminated? Then also, how many people would just pay with a credit card if the monthly payments were eliminated? I don't see the low interest on a relatively low principle being a huge deterrent. None of this matters because it doesn't seem that Disney has any plans of modifying the AP program in any sort of meaningful way.

I know we wouldn't and we actually have the financial means to do so. I think any meaningful change will come from elimination of monthly payments versus the lower tiers. It's much harder for a family of 4 to plunk down $2000+ (full amount of AP's) than it is $400 (payments)

 

[Stevek]

That's true.

Honestly, I think TDA (and TWDC at large) needs a complete corporate gut job with people put into place who understand that these are ACTUALLY problems, and the philosophy of "it doesn't matter, we're making money" is a horrible way to run a business. Corporate should be taken to the parks during days like this, and made to stand in queues just to know what the customer deals with.

The issues you brought up are correct though. And furthermore, I'd say that even if people are "frustrated" to the point where they do end up cancelling their passes, there aren't a shortage of other people ready and willing to get passes for themselves. So, even if people threaten to leave, it's almost like Disney says, "Fine, leave! Someone else will gladly take your place."

I forget who said it earlier in this thread, but having an AP is almost a culture in itself, and somewhat of almost an entitlement. Like, "Hey, I own an Annual Passport, I expect the parks to maintain a certain level of quality and I never want the parks to be crowded the days I go."

Bubbles are bursting all around. But Disney isn't going to act on this. Instead, they'll just raise normal ticket prices.

You nailed it...we have this steady flow of money coming in, parks are packed AND people are still willing to keep shelling out the money. Why would Disney ever change if their fanbase hasn't given them a reason to? At this point, not enough people willing to vote with their wallets.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I have been kicking around the idea of an AP plan where you pay for the number of days you are going to visit and are limited to that number of visits. For example, you can buy a yearly 20 day ticket, 30 day, etc. I’m not sure how it would work but if you could somehow cap it at, say, 50 days (roughly once per week which should be plenty for most people) then maybe you can make a dent in crowd levels.

I've said something similar to that in years past.
A per-month purchase plan where you can set a certain number of visits. But no roll-overs.

I do also want to comment on that idea that all AP's clog up the parks. That's a misnomer. I have friends who live in Fullerton, and once a week the mom takes their kids to the parks at opening, and they stay until just after lunch when the kids are ready for nap time. To me, people like that are not the overcrowding problem.

For the OP's visit, I think we also have to factor in the "holiday" atmosphere into the equation.

 

[mickEblu]

I have been kicking around the idea of an AP plan where you pay for the number of days you are going to visit and are limited to that number of visits. For example, you can buy a yearly 20 day ticket, 30 day, etc. I’m not sure how it would work but if you could somehow cap it at, say, 50 days (roughly once per week which should be plenty for most people) then maybe you can make a dent in crowd levels.

I've been saying something similar for years but I think 50 visits is too generous. To make a dent, I think the highest tier should be somewhere around half that.

 

[Phroobar]

Google is already working on this. The Pixel has a WiFi assistant that automatically routes you through a VPN when you're on public WiFi. It's not perfect yet, but it's essentially a working tech demo for the next generation of mobile security protocols. Also, if you keep your banking info saved unencrypted on your cell phone, it's not a matter of if you get hacked, it's a matter of when. If you have to go through less than three layers of security (pin, password and biometric) to approve an NFC payment you're doing it wrong.

That will be nice but right now it's easy pickings.