Which is worse: Pool hopping, using FPs outside the time window, ...

[maggiegrace1]

Yeah, I know. Sometimes it's fun to stir up a bit of controversy over a topic that has so little effect on anyone's life. It's an interesting psychological experiment that I'm showing to some med students rotating with me that you can take a bit of trivia but as long as a moral value judgment must be made regarding it, people will come out and defend or argue their position as if their lives depended on it, because as they see it, people who disagree with the subject are also disagreeing with someone's way of life or own set of values, and often people will be offended causing the thread will degenerate in to name calling and insults, which I think we're pretty close to. So thanks to all who participated for providing some very informal research into the human psyche.:wave:

:lol:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

..."DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT?" :sohappy::lol:

I would avoid the mayo at fast food outlets in future.

 

[lax3358]

Hey Captain,
Maybe you were too busy worring about ants taking your picinic, you didn't notice the bear that walked away with your sandwich...
Read this.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5553/is_200410/ai_n22256570
Now that is someone stealing money from the shareholders!

Actually didn't miss it (old news)...but the topic of this discussion is in regards to pool hopping, EMH, etc. Besides two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Disney management has some ethical issues doesn't make it okay for anyone else to steal.

The real analogy lies with the insurance premium and workers comp. cost examples.

The moral of the story is...there is no such thing as a free lunch and if we continue to bite the hand that feeds us .....lunch will keep getting more expensive at Disney and everything else you do.

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

Feakin buttheads

Are you kidding me...you posted this??!!
And "feakin"...what an adjective that is...boy howdy...you got me!:brick:

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

Why let it irk you though?
The thing is no matter what people are going to do what is not right..we all have broken rules before and have done things we should not do.

My problem is when people let it get to them so much that it does interfere with their day..

This quote is priceless!!
You essentially just said that the fault lies not with the people who break the rules but with those who are bothered when the rules are broken. Do you realize how messed up that would be if we took that to the utmost. It is the equivalent of "blame the victim..." All because in your mind people just break rules.

 

[aaron2525]

for all you dirtbags that pool hop..stay outta the poly pool. I PAY I PLAY...swim in your own pool. beat it:fork:

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

They were words used as part of analogies, not the subject of the point. You have proven that you don't acutally read other peoples opinions, just focus on specific words.

And was the black helicopter an attempt at making fun of Veterans, because I don't appreciate it.

Way to avoid actually answering me.

1. The point is, your analogy was horrifically flawed...similar to the argument that people are going to break the rules anyway so lets all lie and steal.
2. Yes ofcourse it was about veterans...because we all know the only black helicopters that exist belong exclusively to veterans. (Actually, the black helicopter symbolism is a reference to Government Conspiracists and their fear of the CIA.) It was a response to the idea that everyone is out to get you...they are not.
3. Questions require answers...statements require responses. You asked no question..you get no answer. However you are the new owner of a shiny new response...enjoy.

 

[Glasgow]

I've enjoyed reading this thread .. some of the responses are pretty unbelievable and I can't believe the apathy with which some people view these issues. Still though, an interesting read and insight into people's psyches.

I'll just make one comment though. Man, it's hard enough raising your kids without having to convince them that they are temporarily younger than they think they are in order for you to get them in the park for free. Wow -- that's opening a can of worms that I would not like to deal with.

 

[pax_65]

Pax, there is grey in this world, not everything is black and white.

I agree, as I posted earlier. I think you have to recognize why these rules exist in the first place. For example, I don't think pool-hopping hurts anyone if the pool isn't crowded. But if it is crowded, be considerate of the people who paid the money for that hotel's pool and go somewhere else. (So many people lacked that consideration at Stormalong Bay that they had to put up a fence with a guard.) Similarly, I don't think swimming without showering is a problem as long as you aren't a disgusting slob who's going to create some kind of health hazard (which again is the purpose for the rule).

And I just don't agree that letting a four year old into disney by saying they are 3 is an ethically wrong, and your definition of stealing just doesn't jive with me, and I think it is because of your implication that someone that does lie about their kids age is somehow morally reprehensable, and a bad parent, because they set a bad example.

And I don't get why you think sneaking a kid in for free is ok. Disney now charges a base rate of $63 A DAY for a child age 3-9 to enter a park. This isn't extra napkins at a fast-food restaurant or an extra muffin from a buffet (which I would argue you've basically paid for anyway.)

Why do you feel it's ok to get around that rule? Are we righting some wrong, like is it wrong for Disney to charge $63 for a 3-year-old to enter the park? maybe it is. If you think so, tell Disney and urge them to change their pricing structure.

Hypothetical... if a cast member opened up a gate for a stroller and then walked away for a moment with you in the front of the line, such that you could stroll in for free and save the day of your "no expiration" pass for another day, would you take advantage? (Assume there's no risk of you getting caught, and no risk of you getting the CM in trouble.) Why do you answer the way you do?

Get off your mountain Moses.

I'm actually not a "preachy" person, and someone breaking rules like these really doesn't bother me (since the effect on me is negligible). But I had to write when people were saying this was OK. If you want to do it, go ahead and have a blast - just don't tell me it's OK because everyone is doing it. I don't see it as my job to judge anyone, but I'm not going to agree with you that it isn't wrong. Because it is.

And if your 3-year-old is pretty savvy such that you have to coach him/her to help the lie along, that's even worse because you're bringing them into it. That's not just wrong, it's SAD.

if your upset by people doing this, it's probably because a part of you feels a little like a sucker for not doing it too.

Not at all - I'm not upset and I don't feel like a sucker. I've been to Disney dozens of times and am a DVC member (so I pool hop often). I've found some very creative ways to get great deals (all legit and above board). I do Disney for a fraction of what some other people spend, and I stay in some of the best accommodations on property. I work the FastPass and EMH system such that I almost never stand in a line. And I don't really care or worry about what other people do as long as they don't affect me or my family, which most of the time they don't.

Come to think of it... in dozens of trips the only time I can remember being "upset" was when someone almost ran my family over in a parking lot. Now THAT I had an issue with. LOL.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

This quote is priceless!!
You essentially just said that the fault lies not with the people who break the rules but with those who are bothered when the rules are broken. Do you realize how messed up that would be if we took that to the utmost. It is the equivalent of "blame the victim..." All because in your mind people just break rules.

That's why theoretical stances, in general, shouldn't be taken to the utmost...in either direction.

"Ignore every rule" x utmost = murderers and rapists running free (the imagined horror I assume you were alluding to)

"Enforce every rule" x utmost = people, quite seriously and without a trace of irony, claiming victimhood over a 4-year-old girl getting into Disney for free (the very real hilarity you provide in this post)

Both outcomes highly absurd...but if I have to have one of the two, I'll definitely take the latter. Gives me a chuckle, at least.

 

[trooper1917]

Do any of you "I'm to cool to care about this" folks wonder why they must now police swimmers/guests at Storm Along Bay? Good luck finding a spot for your family near the pool.

 

[durangojim]

This quote is priceless!!
You essentially just said that the fault lies not with the people who break the rules but with those who are bothered when the rules are broken. Do you realize how messed up that would be if we took that to the utmost. It is the equivalent of "blame the victim..." All because in your mind people just break rules.

The following statement is not meant to be sarcastic but does have some irony in it:

It must be very difficult to live in Detroit with King Kwame running things (for a little while longer) with your point of view.

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

And let us all remember that we are all only a small fraction of those affected. Disney is one of the largest employers in the world...the more we take without giving...the harder it will be for all of those CM's to stay CM's.
Another hypothetical: Lets say you own a mickey mouse ears store in Des Moines. You do a good job of this...you like doing it. And you are very succesful. So you decide to give back. You say "I will give away free sets of ears every Thursday between 2:00 and 2:15pm. But only one per customer." It works for a while and because you are being generous not only do people get free ears...but they buy more ears from you. Customers like it (free ears) and you like it (more business). But then some people realize you are near sighted...they start dressing up in different costumes...finding other ways to get more than one set of free ears...and because they are getting alot of them for free they dont need to buy any others. After a while it becomes common and just excepted that this is an ok thing to do...The honest customers start to dislike dealing with the thieves and buy ears elsewhere. You try to stop it but it is too late. You tried to do a good thing but it was ruined by dishonesty. You go out of business.

Its really that simple if you think about it.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Do any of you "I'm to cool to care about this" folks wonder why they must now police swimmers/guests at Storm Along Bay? Good luck finding a spot for your family near the pool.

That would seem to solve any problem with it, no? How can it still be a concern (at that particular pool anyway) if they're watching things so closely?

Anyway, the aloof attitude that seems to bug you from some people isn't a blanket disregard for rules (on my part anyway) — more like a militant refusal to let people who don't comply with them get under my skin.

If I get cut off in traffic, I can lay on the horn (cuz that's going to fix the problem) or I can shrug and keep driving. I choose B.

If I ever find myself leaning toward A, I stop and remind myself how small the issue is (and that I've cut people off by accident or panic myself).

It's in my DNA to not worry too much about other people's choices...even (and here seems to be the rub in this discussion) when their choices impact ME in some tangible way. The impact is typically worth less than the energy it would take to get bothered over it. :shrug:

So...agree with it or disregard it...but I suspect that's the stance you see a lot of people taking here. It's mine anyway.

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

The following statement is not meant to be sarcastic but does have some irony in it:

It must be very difficult to live in Detroit with King Kwame running things (for a little while longer) with your point of view.

Actually I dont live in Detroit (of course) I live in the suburbs...as i assume you do too. Its just easier to say Detroit...people know where it is. And actually Kwame is the poster boy for all of those on this thread who feel it is ok to break perfectly good rules...for whatever reason. He is on a power trip and I suspect those that cheat the system at Disney have a little tickle of power when they do so too. Oddly the sense of power in both cases is fleeting and shallow.
Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

That's why theoretical stances, in general, shouldn't be taken to the utmost...in either direction.

"Ignore every rule" x utmost = murderers and rapists running free (the imagined horror I assume you were alluding to)

"Enforce every rule" x utmost = people, quite seriously and without a trace of irony, claiming victimhood over a 4-year-old girl getting into Disney for free (the very real hilarity you provide in this post)

Both outcomes highly absurd...but if I have to have one of the two, I'll definitely take the latter. Gives me a chuckle, at least.

UH OH Someone took a Logic class in college!!!
Also...WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEORY HERE. Theory involves yet to be proven ideas/reasons...possibilities. Like if time travel is possible or can we colonize Mars or is Usain Bolt human. What we have been talking about this entire time are certainties. People break these rules...it happens. The rules exist and people break them. I know this is fact...therefore there is no theory involved. So we can all take it to the utmost...because we already know it exists on some level.

Also, lets not mistake. I am no victim. I will leave that to those who complain about ticket prices and the lack of "Counter service" options.

 

[noname70]

Do any of you "I'm to cool to care about this" folks wonder why they must now police swimmers/guests at Storm Along Bay? ...

Good point. WDW now pays for additional staffing to check resort ID's and hand out bracelts at SAB. I've seen people removed, as SAB gets really overcrowed. Who do you think pays for this additional staffing?
Unfortunately, I forsee this system happening at other pool areas as well.

 

[durangojim]

Actually I dont live in Detroit (of course) I live in the suburbs...as i assume you do too. Its just easier to say Detroit...people know where it is. And actually Kwame is the poster boy for all of those on this thread who feel it is ok to break perfectly good rules...for whatever reason. He is on a power trip and I suspect those that cheat the system at Disney have a little tickle of power when they do so too. Oddly the sense of power in both cases is fleeting and shallow.
Thank you for proving my point.

I understand what you're saying. I used to say that I lived in Detroit, but now I'm so disgusted by the city that I prefer SE Michigan. Ever since my favorite Greek restaurant closed in Greektown I have very few reasons to go downtown aside from the occaisonal show or ball game. A total bummer when compared to great cities like Chicago or New York.

 

[Timmay]

Do any of you "I'm to cool to care about this" folks wonder why they must now police swimmers/guests at Storm Along Bay?

No, I don't wonder...because I am obviously too cool to care, as you pointed out

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Also...WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THEORY HERE.

*rewinds*

The thing is no matter what people are going to do what is not right..we all have broken rules before and have done things we should not do.

This is the statement you replied to. Sounds fairly general, even abstract to me. :shrug:

Your response also offered this warning:

Do you realize how messed up that would be if we took that to the utmost.

If we're having a very specific, grounded discussion about FastPasses and swimming pools with no theoretical projections in play, then taking the approach you find so objectionable to the "utmost" would result in...people cheating with FastPasses and swimming pools. Doesn't sound all that dire to me.

I'm going to stick with my "theory" that there was a little bit of theory involved in that previous exchange.