Vernonpush
Well-Known Member
Kind of sounds like the Disney Coropration in a way, don't you think?:shrug:
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Where's the beef? Not on Mouse Buffets.
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
CBOMB
Active Member
Only if folks allow it to be the future.
jt04
Well-Known Member
"The future hasn't been written yet -- no one's has!"
...Sorry.
Speak for thine self............
dandaman
Well-Known Member
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Disney is hardly a monopoly. They do have weight, there is no denying that. Wal-Marts power comes with it's suppliers. Here is a sample case. I know a person who works in a certain industry that sells things at Wal-Mart. Wall-Mart demanded that they create a new packaging size (ie, 350 count vs the existing 200 count packages) for use in the Wal-Mart stores. They dictated the size of the packaging as well, how many shelf facings it would get, where it would be in the Plan-O-Gram, and waht price point they wanted it at. In essence Wall-Mart ordered a custom product for itself. Why could they do this, where any other retailer would be told to go take a flying leap? Because Wal-Mart has such a huge share of the overall sales.
Because Wal-Mart can do this, they can optimized their operations. They size the product to maximize profit, minimize logistics costs, maximize product size while minimizing shrink. They also size the packaging to facilitate stocking and to present a unified shelf face.
It is a self perpetuation monster. Because they have the clout they can dictate the rules, which gives them greater clout.
Disney has a lot of clout, but they are not a store. Much of their final product is generated by Disney.
-dave
No, it is drivel as far as I am concerned.
There is no doubt that beef costs more in 2008 than it did in 2001. It costs more for all of us.
But when Disney's answer is to RAISE prices constantly (how many times over do you think a $13 per person rise in prices covers the cost as well as Disney's profit margins?) while offering a lower quality product (or one that many people view that way before we get a cuts of beef discussion yet again), I am seeing it from all angles yet the result is the same.
Disney is cutting something out that gave people value and they're raising prices at the same time.
This back and forth on it is getting beyond absurd.
Well ... neither do I.
But I think it's pretty safe to say one reason why WDW does what it does is NOT to EXCEED guests expectations.
Unless those expectations are simply 'much better than Six Flags' ...
Oh c'mon Dave, I never pictured you as a drama queen!:king:
If someone has never been to Boma (just to use it as an example because it is the only buffet at WDW I regularly go to, although I've been to them all at least 1-2 times) then it is logical to say they can't miss something they never had.
They may, if they've been to other buffets at resort hotels elsewhere, think it's 'different' that WDW doesn't have prime rib, but they likely won't think it's a big deal.
But the folks who have been dining there for years (and Boma has a very loyal following amongst locals ... much more so than say Chef Mickey's or 1900 Park Faire, both of which also had prime rib and now don't) well ... they may not be so thrilled. Many will likely be unhappy and complain (I'll bet anything there will be much more complaints here than other locales), but I am sure some folks may even prefer the new beef.
Again ... there are people who will say 'I'm glad there's a playground in Fantasyland instead of that sub ride. I hated that.' or 'I'm glad they removed those canoes. They think I'm going to paddle/exercise when I'm on vacation.' or even 'I'm glad they closed Pleasure Island. WDW is for kids. They shouldn't have sinful bars and clubs at a children's resort.'
I could give you many other examples ... the fact doesn't change that when Disney cuts quality for all, it really doesn't matter whether some (or even these days, the majority) go along like sheep.
There are people who even now will defend ... nevermind.
I acknowledge they have done more to destroy American workers and kill Main Streets from coast to coast, while taking advantage of the poorest and most ignorant amongst us, than any other company in history.
And, no, I would never set foot in one. That company disgusts me. But yeah, they are great at what they do!:fork::fork::fork:
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Maybe it was the spirit of Xmas
You know, I really have put some thought into this thread, more so that it's content really deserves. In doing so, I think I have come up with an understanding of myself and why my responses are the way they are, because believe me, I am no WDW fanboy, KoolAid drinker, Mouseminion, excuse maker, or whatever the curret cutsey name is.
I am, or rather have become ..... an uncaring capitalist ______________. Ah, that feels better.
Maybe it's because I really don't care anymore about the general masses. I care about me, and the people cllose to me. The prime rib change does not bother me, and if the masses seem to like it, its not my job to "educate" them. I know what I like, and what I like I look for. When that goes away, then I complain, and if necessary I act. So far, WDW has not done anything that will cause me to act by staying away. I have complained to them a number of times however, about minor things, but things that effected me. (I have also complimented them quite a bit). So maybe thats the answer. While I don't have blinders on about these "issues" I just really don't care.
-dave
yankspy
Well-Known Member
That is the difference. I never called your opinion drivel even though this is one area in which I have a lot more experience than you in. However, I have been called worse and it does not bother me. (I am from N.Y. and used to a lot worse) I guess we will have to disagree on this one.
I did not mean to suggest your opinion is drivel ... just this back and forth in general.
I feel like I/we're going around in total circles here and I don't get the desire by so many to place some kind of noble or at least market-driven forces into Disney's blatant cut of quality.
I know enough about Disney management to hear the laughter coming out of TDO after reading this thread down here in the Miami area.
This is SOP by Disney when it comes to food and beverage.
A quick example ... I used to love the turkey sandwich served at the Columbia Harbor House at MK. It was quality turkey piled high on a fresh roll with a basket full of chips and a side of cole slaw. Loved it. Then Disney one day decided to cut the amount of turkey roughly in half and eliminate the side of slaw ... while increasing the price between 50 and 80 cents.
When I complained to an area manager he lied to my face about the cut in the amount of turkey and said the slaw was removed 'due to guests not wanting it' and that I could buy a side of it. That's Disney spin. Give the guests less, charge them more and tell them it's because that's what THEY ASKED FOR.
I went back one more time about eight months later. This time the sandwich was served on much more generic (i.e. cheaper) roll, the quality of the meat was noticeably lower and the large portion of chips had been cut to a tiny bag ... oh and the price had gone up another 50 cents.
This is WalMarting. This is what Disney does. They don't need their fan base defending it.
One other example of Disney 'blaming the guests' ... the infamous wand monstrosity at EPCOT. Near the end of the Millennium Celebration (when it should have been removed) a low level Disney PR hack was quoted nationally as saying something to the effect that 'Due to its immense popularity and guest requests, the wand will be remaining after the celebration ends.' ... The only problem with this was that, despite the fact that even back then it had fans (no accounting for taste), the then-VP of Epcot (George Kalogridis) told me 'it's been budgeted to be here for 10 years' ... again, that was back in 1999. So, it was always Disney's plans to leave the thing up (indeed, we can only thank Siemens for it coming down considerably sooner than planned).
Yet, Disney lied. To the media. To the general public. To its guests.
It placed all the power for the decision on the guests when their opinions didn't matter one iota.
Again, people can believe what they want. But Disney isn't doing anything these days at WDW to exceed guests expectations. They are cutting left and right and spinning as fast as they can make it up.
But that's it ... and that's it for me too posting wise... at least until 2009.
The holidays are coming and I am taking a break and have work and family issues that require my attention. So happy holidays all and feel free to rip me with impunity ... but I will be back!:xmas:
yankspy
Well-Known Member
I am not necessarily disagreeing with your reasoning. I am simply saying that it is hard to know why. Perhaps you are correct. I am not bothered by critical posts, I am more or less playing Devil's advocate. I simply do not know enough about this specific situation to make a sound judgement.
I would never rip with impunity. That would mean that I would have to actually care about peoples opinions on right, wrong, etc. (Philosophy majors never do):animwink:
Enjoy the holiday.:xmas:
epcotWSC
Well-Known Member
Walmart is far from a monopoly. However, they are a small business killer and a terrible corporate citizen.
The problem is that they do have a very very large pull on their suppliers due to their market share. If Walmart decided that they weren't going to carry Sony products anymore, Sony would take a huge hit in sales. This makes Sony become a little more lenient towards Walmarts demands.
Another issue is that Walmart pays their employees garbage and treats them like crap. I've heard some terrible stories about things that Walmart does to their employees. Not sure if they are just rumors or not, but it sounds plausible. One such thing is that Walmart puts their time clocks in the back of the store. What difference does that make? Well in order to punch out for the end of the shift you have to go to the back of the store. So your shift is over, you go the the back of the store, and punch out. On the way out of the store, your manager stops you. Asks you to do some work, clean up a bit. Well, you can completely blow off your manager and say fu, but I'm sure that most people who are making such a small salary aren't going to do that. Not many people are probably working at Walmart if they could find better work. So now these people are forced to do work off the clock.
Which leads to the next point.
You have the issue of customer service. Walmart's customer service is basically zero. I remember I had a part-time job at Sears when I was in High School and College. They used to tell us that surveys claimed the customers felt that the customer service was better at Walmart than Sears. How can that be? One of the things I remember was that people greeted you when you walked into the store. Meanwhile at Sears that didn't happen. This somehow makes for better customer service (which led to us being forced to harass every customer who walked by our department asking them if they needed assistance). However, once you're in the store, try to find an employee at a Walmart or better yet, ask for information from an employee and you'll find out what Walmart's all about. This is what mid level department stores are trying to emulate. Which is one of the many reasons why lots of people don't shop in stores anymore.
However, with all that, do people care? Most do not. People see low prices, so they buy. Walmart isn't about the name, it's about getting product A for 3.99 at Store X, but getting it for 3.50 at Walmart. Most people will go for the 49 cent savings over the service. I really don't think of Walmart as a powerful brand name. It's not the old Sears, Roebuck & Co. stores or Macy's or something along those lines.
That's also why I think the term "Walmarting" is inappropriate for WDW. Walmart doesn't technically cheap you out on the product. If I'm buying a Samsung LCD TV at Walmart, and Best Buy has the same model. Well, it's the same product and there is no difference. What Walmart does affects its employees, suppliers, and manufacturers much more than the consumer. In fact what Walmart technically does is it gives you the same product for less (or the same in many cases).
What Disney is doing is something different. It's more like taking unfair advantage of the brand name and hitting the customer with decreased quality at an increased price. That's the exact opposite of Walmart. If Disney were truly Walmarting, it would be the same product at a decreased price, which I think all of us would love. However, that would come at the expense of employees and their suppliers and such.
That said, I do have faith in Disney to turn things around. Maybe not to what they were (which I never experienced anyway), but besides these reactionary cuts to the economy, I've read a decent amount of good things that Disney had planned for the parks before this disaster happened.
Heck, everyone makes cuts. Where I work, we had a water cooler. That was the first thing they cut out. Everyone was ed for a few weeks, but what can we do right now? I work for a company that probably won't be hit very much by this (IBM, fyi, whose earnings were up in 3Q), but they are still making cuts.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
I deliberately dont use Walmart (Asda in the UK) and I reduced my stay at WDW, and will reduce it further should we visit in 09. In the grand scheme of things it means all to either company, but it is the only meaningful action I can take. Oh and apart from 4 pins I didnt buy a single item of merchandise.
righttrack
Well-Known Member
Its not just a crime they removed Prime Rib from the Boma buffet. Its a crime because those chefs knew just what to do with it! It was so phenomenal. It really was.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
That's the very reason I don't like that term. :wave:
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Same here. WalMart merchandise is not any lesser quality, it's the same products sold elsewhere (but it is usualy the lower end of the productline) Its just cheaper.
And while I am far from a union labor supporter, I also have heard of they way Wal Mart treats its employees, and that is one of the reason I do not go their to shop. That, and that I will pay a bit more to be in a store that is not overcrowded, has a selection of better products, and helpful people.
-dave
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Yes...support your local retailer. :sohappy:
hokielutz
Well-Known Member
WHEW...... I go looking for Figaro Fries... and this crazy thread is what I come up with??? Glad I was more focused on the Christmas holiday, than the boards at the time of this thread... cause it was really getting brutal here.
Anyways, I will try not to gin up the arguments from earlier... but I do have to complain about the change to the Figaro Fries. I think those who like this side dish, did so because of the wonderful toppings of lettuce, tomato, and ranch, which accompanies the chese and bacon bits. Much to our surprise in January, it was just Cheese & Bacon Fries. If they are changing it to that, then they should just remove the Figaro Fries name off the menu and call it what it is. Without the rare blend of toppings, it doesn't deserve the name it originally held, and my wife and I were really POd.
I talked with the manager on duty at the Haus, and she was very apologetic and sincere when I talked with her. She didn't know what the reasoning for the change was or involved with the decision, but surely was to save some $$. (I question the cost savings since the cheese and bacon coating seems to be twice as heavy as I remeber it from 2007.) She said that she would be more than happy to have the lettuce and tomato added, and when I come back again, to just ask for those condiments, and they can do it. (this was on 1/15/2009) Since we already started eating the fries, we declined, and I thanked her for listening. I have since written an letter and will see if I get a response.
Anyways, when I visit again in May, the PH will be tested to see if toppings can be added. Frankly, its not that bad of an idea to let the dressing for all the dishes come from separate packets... at least the consistency of the dressing will be even, and the guest can choose how much or little to put on.
Anyways, I will try not to gin up the arguments from earlier... but I do have to complain about the change to the Figaro Fries. I think those who like this side dish, did so because of the wonderful toppings of lettuce, tomato, and ranch, which accompanies the chese and bacon bits. Much to our surprise in January, it was just Cheese & Bacon Fries. If they are changing it to that, then they should just remove the Figaro Fries name off the menu and call it what it is. Without the rare blend of toppings, it doesn't deserve the name it originally held, and my wife and I were really POd.
I talked with the manager on duty at the Haus, and she was very apologetic and sincere when I talked with her. She didn't know what the reasoning for the change was or involved with the decision, but surely was to save some $$. (I question the cost savings since the cheese and bacon coating seems to be twice as heavy as I remeber it from 2007.) She said that she would be more than happy to have the lettuce and tomato added, and when I come back again, to just ask for those condiments, and they can do it. (this was on 1/15/2009) Since we already started eating the fries, we declined, and I thanked her for listening. I have since written an letter and will see if I get a response.
Anyways, when I visit again in May, the PH will be tested to see if toppings can be added. Frankly, its not that bad of an idea to let the dressing for all the dishes come from separate packets... at least the consistency of the dressing will be even, and the guest can choose how much or little to put on.