Where in the World Isn't Bob Saget?

JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
First Dr. Ruth, and now Richard Simmons.
RIP to two remarkable individuals who really helped a lot of people.

Dr. Ruth’s Wikipedia page is a terrific read. She was quite the giant, packed into a tiny 4’ 7” package.

When the king gets depressed, he doesn't call for his wife or the cook. He turns to the little man with the pointed hat and says to the court jester "make me laugh". And I am that court jester.

— Richard Simmons, Men's Health
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
rshell68 said:
Our 32 year old son still lives with us. We would rather not see him struggle financially. Rent is CRAZY here. He works full time and pulls his weight around the house no reason to boot him just because others think otherwise.
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My boys are finally starting to step up. As if they have any choice.

The truth is, Mommy and Daddy can’t afford to maintain two households. If we were still home, I wouldn’t even be thinking of pushing them out.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
This is where I totally disagree with you. This is all I have done for a living for 35 years. Housing affordability has never been worse.

Look at these figures for the past four years alone. And this is to buy a "regular" condo apartment. That means not new, not waterfront, no concierge or rooftop spa and pool ....
"Close to 60% of all households could afford to own at least a regular condo apartment in 2019 based on their income. That share has plummeted to 45% in 2023. An even tinier 26% could now afford a (relatively more expensive) single-family home."

Nearly one in five Ontarians are spending more than 50% of their income on RENT! "In Ontario, 36% of renters are spending 31 to 50% of their income on housing expenses while 18% are spending over 50%."

When I moved out in 1986, minimum wage was $7.22/hr, and my rent was $165/month.
Now the minimum wage is $17.20, but the average one bedroom apartment rents for $2431/month.
The math ain't mathing.

Like I said, housing affordability in Ontario has never (ever, ever, ever) been worse.

Also, this generation of buyers have never seen interest rates this high. They got used to prime being 2.25%. Now it's almost 7%. And yes, when I started selling new homes in 1989, the mortgage interest rate was 11 3/4%, but I was selling 3315 sq ft on a 60' lot for $265,900. I currently have a 20' middle unit townhouse in Pickering for $1.2 million. I mean it's nice, but 1.2 for a townhouse ... gimme a break.

Most of the youth I know, are starting out in (sometimes legal) basement apartments with a buddy or two. None of them even has aspirations of buying a McMansion anymore; it's just too far out of reach. Most have resigned themselves to being renters for their entire lives. Anecdotally I will add, that a lot of young girls I know are starting their families at 21 and 22. Not oopsies - calculated decisions. There is no huge impetus to establish a career, get married, and buy a house BEFORE having kids now, because it's not an attainable goal; so they're having them early, and by the time they reach 28, 29 the kids are already in school full time, and now they can start the career thing.

tl;dr - life is expensive.

ETA - I have a LISTING for a $1.2 million townhouse. Did not mean to imply that I own it.
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I'm confused. How does all that disagree with what I said? I understand that there is more than one factor that has caused that problem. You seem to be pointing to rich immigrants causing the rise of housing costs. Unless I'm not understanding what you are saying, I stated that there is a housing shortage but who is setting the prices? Where is the affordable housing being built? Is it necessary to just have high end housing? Why doesn't the government try and encourage the industry to build starter homes that would allow lower income people the chance to own instead of trying to regulate the influx of wealthy immigrants (the exact opposite as what we are led to believe down here).

The reason is because the high cost housing is still being almost exclusively built. Who is looking out for the lower income? Is it just greed from builders and landlords taking advantage of a shortage of affordable housing? Is it social or governmental situations that encourage the continued suppression of low income families or some other reason? Is it an inability to have enough contractors to build all ranges of housing? I have a hard time believing that people immigrating to Canada are all so wealthy that it causes the rents and purchase prices to skyrocket. The aren't even looking for places with that high cost of rent unless they are arriving with a printing press and are printing up the money required to have a roof over their heads.

There will always be a sector of the population that just cannot afford those places, but seriously what portion of the population can afford $1.2 million or even $2500. per month rent. You guys have a very liberal outlook and a degree, at the very least, of a socialistic economic system. Where is the government as the entity that oversees that economic system not trying to regulate the cost of housing instead of it just being a free for all of high prices and encouraging the wealthy to buy and or rent these locations? What does ones income have to be to pay those $2500. monthly rents and still eat, clothe and keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer? You guys have a massive amount of available land so why isn't the government itself buying up that property and being the contractor, at least in the construction stage and building affordable housing that later can be turned over to the land owners in the form of reasonably profitable sales? We'll call it the George Bailey Syndrome!

It is good that there is a market for the very high end, but it can be way to one sided due to the high profit motivation. There needs to be some way to also include those with less income to be part of that society. That applies to all of North America not just Canada!
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
Goofyernmost said:
I'm confused. How does all that disagree with what I said? I understand that there is more than one factor that has caused that problem. You seem to be pointing to rich immigrants causing the rise of housing costs. Unless I'm not understanding what you are saying,1) I stated that there is a housing shortage but who is setting the prices? Where is the affordable housing being built? Is it necessary to just have high end housing? Why doesn't the government try and encourage the industry to build starter homes that would allow lower income people the chance to own instead of trying to regulate the influx of wealthy immigrants (the exact opposite as what we are led to believe down here).

2)The reason is because the high cost housing is still being almost exclusively built. Who is looking out for the lower income? Is it just greed from builders and landlords taking advantage of a shortage of affordable housing? Is it social or governmental situations that encourage the continued suppression of low income families or some other reason? Is it an inability to have enough contractors to build all ranges of housing?3) I have a hard time believing that people immigrating to Canada are all so wealthy that it causes the rents and purchase prices to skyrocket. The aren't even looking for places with that high cost of rent unless they are arriving with a printing press and are printing up the money required to have a roof over their heads.

There will always be a sector of the population that just cannot afford those places, but seriously what portion of the population can afford $1.2 million or even $2500. per month rent. You guys have a very liberal outlook and a degree, at the very least, of a socialistic economic system. Where is the government as the entity that oversees that economic system not trying to regulate the cost of housing instead of it just being a free for all of high prices and encouraging the wealthy to buy and or rent these locations? What does ones income have to be to pay those $2500. monthly rents and still eat, clothe and keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer? 4) You guys have a massive amount of available land 5) so why isn't the government itself buying up that property and being the contractor, at least in the construction stage and building affordable housing that later can be turned over to the land owners in the form of reasonably profitable sales? We'll call it the George Bailey Syndrome!

It is good that there is a market for the very high end, but it can be way to one sided due to the high profit motivation. There needs to be some way to also include those with less income to be part of that society. That applies to all of North America not just Canada!
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1- The market sets the prices in a free market economy. Any house that it is listed at a "decent" price will receive multiple offers and usually sells WAY above asking price.

2- Not true. Condos, townhomes, stacked townhomes, back to backs are the bulk of what Builders are building because that is the so-called affordable option.

3- And yet it's true, hence the foreign buyer prohibition.

4- Massive amounts of land that is inhospitable, unfarmable, and too far away from infrastructure and jobs. Huge swaths of southern Ontario were designated greenbelt decades ago, and cannot be touched, even though much of it is not being farmed and is literally just sitting there (as land is wont to do :hilarious:). When the current government tried to redesignate some (and reallocate other land as an offset), there was such a hue and cry that Dougie had to back down.

5 - Oh heck no! The less government touches something, the better. There is no bad situation that the government, most any government, can't make worse. Huge news story here a decade ago, a Toronto school needed a new pencil sharpener installed. They had the sharpener, it literally just needed to be attached to the cabinet with two screws. The teacher brought in his own screwdriver, but was prevented by the union represented maintenance worker from completing the job. Multiple days later, the job was done, and tax-payers were billed $143. Google it.

Goofyernmost said:
To some degree that is true, however, when I bought my first house for $25000.00 it was just as hard to come up with the money as today's prices. The only young people that I have experience with had worked hard, got an education and a skill that pays more than minimum wage and if they couldn't afford a house or 1) sometimes even to rent they went in on a shared occupancy with friends until they could 2) save enough to afford a starter home. 3) If people are unable to pay for todays housing, I guarantee you that housing would cost less. But, they are buying them and from what I've heard without much hesitation.

The real problem is that back in the day independent builders built starter homes, they don't do that anymore and the profit margin on those big, expensive places make it more attractive to build and it leaves out a lot of people.

Here in the states when I bought my first house the minimum wage was under $3.00 per hour but they, maybe still do, have government subsidized housing loans such as Farmers Home Loans, that I had to use back then to help with start up. It didn't last forever and the housing had to be at a certain price range an in a more rural setting, but it got a lot of people started in home ownership that lead to eventual upgrading as careers started to take hold.

4) I have found that todays youth don't want to do that interim stuff, they want to go from mom and dads to semi-mansions and are unwilling to deal with the hardships that give one the incentive and goals to do better and try harder. There should be a system were one can climb a ladder to the goal not just expect it immediately. It's just that sometimes in order to improve you have to pay your dues and that made it difficult at first but so much more rewarding when one finally makes it to the goal. Now it seems that the prevailing attitude is "if it ain't on the top, I ain't interested". That applies to jobs and housing and willingness to become independent.
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1 - Kids today have no other choice but to get places together. Two/three guys chip in, and the one who doesn't have a girlfriend or can contribute the least amount of money gets the couch.

2 - Aye, there's the rub. If you're paying ridiculous rent every month, you're not able to save for a down payment in an escalating market. By the time you've saved the required 10%, if you even can, prices have gone up another hundred or so thousand.

3 - Wrong. I won't get into why ... but you're just wrong about Canada's situation.

4 - I can't agree with this either. When even a back to back townhouse costs almost $600,000 in little old Brantford, young people throw their hands up in despair. Mike and I have experienced a significant temporary downturn in our financial situation, and if we sell the house, it will be a couple of years before we can afford to buy again ... at which point, I don't think we will bother. I'd rather give some money to my kids than put $200-$300K down on a townhouse up here. Home ownership is a reality that is slipping away for this generation.


I'm sure this conversation is boring for the rest of Sagetland, so I'll let it go after this.
Canada is not the US. We have a smaller population than the US (approx 1/9th); far less habitable land, despite what a map would lead you to believe; and a massive immigration and refugee influx, disproportionate to our population. New immigrants have been my bread and butter for decades. Without them, I'd be working at a Tim Horton's, so please don't think I'm complaining.
 
PUSH

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
JenniferS said:
1- The market sets the prices in a free market economy. Any house that it is listed at a "decent" price will receive multiple offers and usually sells WAY above asking price.

2- Not true. Condos, townhomes, stacked townhomes, back to backs are the bulk of what Builders are building because that is the so-called affordable option.

3- And yet it's true, hence the foreign buyer prohibition.

4- Massive amounts of land that is inhospitable, unfarmable, and too far away from infrastructure and jobs. Huge swaths of southern Ontario were designated greenbelt decades ago, and cannot be touched, even though much of it is not being farmed and is literally just sitting there (as land is wont to do :hilarious:). When the current government tried to redesignate some (and reallocate other land as an offset), there was such a hue and cry that Dougie had to back down.

5 - Oh heck no! The less government touches something, the better. There is no bad situation that the government, most any government, can't make worse. Huge news story here a decade ago, a Toronto school needed a new pencil sharpener installed. They had the sharpener, it literally just needed to be attached to the cabinet with two screws. The teacher brought in his own screwdriver, but was prevented by the union represented maintenance worker from completing the job. Multiple days later, the job was done, and tax-payers were billed $143. Google it.



1 - Kids today have no other choice but to get places together. Two/three guys chip in, and the one who doesn't have a girlfriend or can contribute the least amount of money gets the couch.

2 - Aye, there's the rub. If you're paying ridiculous rent every month, you're not able to save for a down payment in an escalating market. By the time you've saved the required 10%, if you even can, prices have gone up another hundred or so thousand.

3 - Wrong. I won't get into why ... but you're just wrong about Canada's situation.

4 - I can't agree with this either. When even a back to back townhouse costs almost $600,000 in little old Brantford, young people throw their hands up in despair. Mike and I have experienced a significant temporary downturn in our financial situation, and if we sell the house, it will be a couple of years before we can afford to buy again ... at which point, I don't think we will bother. I'd rather give some money to my kids than put $200-$300K down on a townhouse up here. Home ownership is a reality that is slipping away for this generation.


I'm sure this conversation is boring for the rest of Sagetland, so I'll let it go after this.
Canada is not the US. We have a smaller population than the US (approx 1/9th); far less habitable land, despite what a map would lead you to believe; and a massive immigration and refugee influx, disproportionate to our population. New immigrants have been my bread and butter for decades. Without them, I'd be working at a Tim Horton's, so please don't think I'm complaining.
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Even though you say Canada is not the US, so much of this is true for the US, too. Obviously it differs based on where you live in the county. It's easy to put the blame on young people for being lazy and not wanting to work towards something, even when it's not true. If you're looking for my source, it's me... a hard-working millennial who has struggled to find a decent, affordable place to own and has multiple friends who are in the same boat. Blaming us is a huge slap in the face and doesn't help solve the actual problem.
 
Mr Ferret 75

Mr Ferret 75

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
PUSH said:
Even though you say Canada is not the US, so much of this is true for the US, too. Obviously it differs based on where you live in the county. It's easy to put the blame on young people for being lazy and not wanting to work towards something, even when it's not true. If you're looking for my source, it's me... a hard-working millennial who has struggled to find a decent, affordable place to own and has multiple friends who are in the same boat. Blaming us is a huge slap in the face and doesn't help solve the actual problem.
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It's the same over this side of the pond also.
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
PUSH said:
Even though you say Canada is not the US, so much of this is true for the US, too. Obviously it differs based on where you live in the county. It's easy to put the blame on young people for being lazy and not wanting to work towards something, even when it's not true. If you're looking for my source, it's me... a hard-working millennial who has struggled to find a decent, affordable place to own and has multiple friends who are in the same boat. Blaming us is a huge slap in the face and doesn't help solve the actual problem.
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I feel your pain. Things are tough all over. The closer you get to big metropolitan areas, the more you pay.

The average house price in the US was $495,100 in the second quarter of 2023. In Canada, the average house price is $733,300. The average house price in the GTA, including houses, condos, resales, and new builds is $1,162,167.
Rents are reflective of house prices in that landlords have mortgages to pay too!

These prices just aren't sustainable ... which is what I say every time I've opened a new site for the past 20 years. Sooner or later, I'll be right.

Our mortgage rules are a lot stricter up here. It's harder to qualify. We have what's called a mortgage stress test. Basically, you have to qualify at whatever rate you negotiate with your bank PLUS another 2%.
Copied from Google, because I'm lazy:
"What is the current stress test rate? As of June 2021 changes, a lender will use whichever is higher — either a rate of 5.25% OR your actual rate plus 2.0% to qualify your mortgage loan amount. Most rates today surpass the 5.25% minimum, so your qualifying stress-test rate depends on getting your best rate."

Right now, the longest term mortgage you can get here is 25 years. 30 year terms are available only to first time buyers, and only if they are buying a newly constructed home. In the US, the 30 year term is the most popular, with some institutions offering 40 year terms. Delinquency rates are less than 1% in Canada vs 3.62% in the US. Harder to default on a mortgage here if it's that much harder to actually get one.

I've really depressed myself now. :hilarious:
 
FutureCEO

FutureCEO

Well-Known Member
PUSH said:
Even though you say Canada is not the US, so much of this is true for the US, too. Obviously it differs based on where you live in the county. It's easy to put the blame on young people for being lazy and not wanting to work towards something, even when it's not true. If you're looking for my source, it's me... a hard-working millennial who has struggled to find a decent, affordable place to own and has multiple friends who are in the same boat. Blaming us is a huge slap in the face and doesn't help solve the actual problem.
Click to expand...

For renters:

Average single bedroom if you live alone in Boston: $3,500
Average one bedroom in Providence: $2,200

For buyers.

Houses are at least a million in the Boston area and half a million in Providence.
 

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