When rules don't apply to others; I want to hear your stories

[Goofyernmost]

This was really part of the point I was trying to clarify. I didn't think loading the ECVs first was an ADA regulation. I always thought it was a Disney internal policy based on trying to get the vehicle on an empty bus rather than trying to squeeze it only an already full or partially full bus.

It is a general safety procedure done by transportation companies because of if you really want to be delayed in your transportation activities, have someone get injured while a chair or ecv is being loaded. It is not a requirement of first on, it is more of a physical necessity to insure that no one gets injured or worse. But, if there is a secure location available on the bus, then the ones with the need are able to use it no matter when they show up. Buses usually have two such locations so if a third shows up they will have to wait. After the two are loaded, then the general public is allowed to get on the bus. They can limit the number of family members, but, a certain number of the party must be allowed to go if for no other reason then these people are the support group.

 

[jloucks]

I usually don't get upset at stuff. I do get upset when someone steps in front of a scooter because they didn't look and then yells at the person in the scooter when it was their own damn fault. Almost every incident that I have witnessed, and there have been quite a few, have been the fault of the person that got hit and then proceeded to act like a jerk and blame someone else. I have also gone to WDW at least once every year for nearly 35 years and have never been hit by a scooter or a stroller yet. Why? Because I pay attention to where I am and where I am walking.

I am bewildered by the complaint about people stopping in the middle of the path (no injury involved) because I would bet my life savings that there isn't one person, including the loudest complainers, that haven't done that AT LEAST ONCE. It's a big place with a lot of things that divert our attention and directions that are sometimes confusing. If we live in glass houses we really shouldn't throw stones. Those are unintentional human happenings unlike cutting lines, swearing, wearing obscenities on T-shirts and using cameras in dark rides.

I know you have heard me say this before, but since it came up again, I'll say it again (I guess mainly for others)..... motor vehicles do not belong on pedestrian pathways. Especially not ultra-crowded pathways. Not golf carts. Not scooters. Not those loud gas powered skateboard things. Not cars. Not mopeds. None of it does. Shoot, I don't even think skateboards, rollerskates, roller blades or horses should be allowed. For the same reason; people can stop quicker than most vehicles and vehicles are heavier (and harder) than people. What is deemed safe should consider this. People also trip, stumble, and sidestep constantly just adding to the gauntlet of terror that are vehicle infested pedestrian pathways.

The only thing I know that stops as fast as people are standard powered wheelchairs. ...not to be confused with the scooter things people are passing off as somehow the same thing. Not the same thing.

All that being said, an ultra cautious scooter driver can actually navigate a crowd. It will be slow. It will be arduous. It will be frustrating. But it can be done. Of course some scooter drivers give up on safe (or are incapable of it), drive fast, somebody trips in front of them, they ram them, then somehow it is the person that trips fault?

To put it more simply, any scooter speed that results in hitting a pedestrian is too fast. I cannot think of any scenario where a scooter -vs- pedestrian impact is the pedestrians fault as any speed driven by a scooter that results in impact is too fast.

It is a big ole catch 22. If your scooter hits somebody for any reason, you were going too fast. Defensive driving 101 - Assume everyone will trip in front of you and drive accordingly.

The times I was hit and not just rolled over, the driver was going almost slow enough to avoid me. It smarted a little, but I was able to walk it off none the worse for wear. Slower would have resulted in no impact.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

I usually don't get upset at stuff. I do get upset when someone steps in front of a scooter because they didn't look and then yells at the person in the scooter when it was their own damn fault. Almost every incident that I have witnessed, and there have been quite a few, have been the fault of the person that got hit and then proceeded to act like a jerk and blame someone else. I have also gone to WDW at least once every year for nearly 35 years and have never been hit by a scooter or a stroller yet. Why? Because I pay attention to where I am and where I am walking.

I am bewildered by the complaint about people stopping in the middle of the path (no injury involved) because I would bet my life savings that there isn't one person, including the loudest complainers, that haven't done that AT LEAST ONCE. It's a big place with a lot of things that divert our attention and directions that are sometimes confusing. If we live in glass houses we really shouldn't throw stones. Those are unintentional human happenings unlike cutting lines, swearing, wearing obscenities on T-shirts and using cameras in dark rides.

It also makes me so angry when they don't watch their kids and let them just walk right out in front of a scooter, then if the person on the scooter hits the kid they are furious at the scooter driver

 

[Legendary]

It absolutely infuriates me when I see people locking arms when moving through heavy crowds during parades or fireworks. I get that you need to hold your child's hand. But grown adults do not need to make a human chain as they exit. 2 people fine but there is no need to link up your entire party together.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I know you have heard me say this before, but since it came up again, I'll say it again (I guess mainly for others)..... motor vehicles do not belong on pedestrian pathways. Especially not ultra-crowded pathways. Not golf carts. Not scooters. Not those loud gas powered skateboard things. Not cars. Not mopeds. None of it does. Shoot, I don't even think skateboards, rollerskates, roller blades or horses should be allowed. For the same reason; people can stop quicker than most vehicles and vehicles are heavier (and harder) than people. What is deemed safe should consider this. People also trip, stumble, and sidestep constantly just adding to the gauntlet of terror that are vehicle infested pedestrian pathways.

The only thing I know that stops as fast as people are standard powered wheelchairs. ...not to be confused with the scooter things people are passing off as somehow the same thing. Not the same thing.

All that being said, an ultra cautious scooter driver can actually navigate a crowd. It will be slow. It will be arduous. It will be frustrating. But it can be done. Of course some scooter drivers give up on safe (or are incapable of it), drive fast, somebody trips in front of them, they ram them, then somehow it is the person that trips fault?

To put it more simply, any scooter speed that results in hitting a pedestrian is too fast. I cannot think of any scenario where a scooter -vs- pedestrian impact is the pedestrians fault as any speed driven by a scooter that results in impact is too fast.

It is a big ole catch 22. If your scooter hits somebody for any reason, you were going too fast. Defensive driving 101 - Assume everyone will trip in front of you and drive accordingly.

The times I was hit and not just rolled over, the driver was going almost slow enough to avoid me. It smarted a little, but I was able to walk it off none the worse for wear. Slower would have resulted in no impact.

As long as you don't consider that physical problems are not standard. Each person has a different capacity of mobility. Wheelchairs can be used by anyone regardless of incapacity, however, there are mental well beings to be considered as well and unless you have been in that situation there is no way that you can pretend to know who or what is essential to their well being. Physical or Mental. The general idea that it is the operator that is at fault is as erroneous as saying that the pathways in WDW are never used for commercial vehicle traffic. Just simply isn't true.

It absolutely infuriates me when I see people locking arms when moving through heavy crowds during parades or fireworks. I get that you need to hold your child's hand. But grown adults do not need to make a human chain as they exit. 2 people fine but there is no need to link up your entire party together.

I have to ask... just how often have you seen that situation. I have been going there for 34 years and have never seen a group of people linked arm in arm. And it is in a line not a blockade across the crowd. I know this because they would never get anywhere. Linked is so that members of the group don't get lost in the crowd.

 

[francism]

This happened to me a few weeks back on a rainy day. It had actually just started to rain and I was taking the niece and nephew on Pirates of the Caribbean. Posted wait time was 15 minutes but it took 35 to actually ride. I figured that lots of people with canceled FastPass+ reservations decided to use them on POTC instead of waiting for the rain to stop. We got to the FastPass+ split and were sent down the right side instead of the left. The line was barely moving after this point and I quickly found out why.

There's a doorway down that path, just beyond a turn that is generated by a concrete wall. The door is down some stairs but there was a giant wall of people that was coming into the POTC queue through that door. I asked someone who came in the door if they were with a group and got a blank stare, then heard them speaking in Portugese. This was not a small group of people, nor were they particularly young so it gave me the impression that this wasn't a typical South American tour group. After 'merging' with this group (with the mass of people it was not possible to stay behind the group of people we had been behind the entire time in line), we eventually made it above the area the boats float in from and then down the ramp to load.

I mentioned this to a CM and pointed out some of the people who had come through the door and he just said that the door shouldn't be open and they'd look into it. While on the ride, the offenders from that group who got in the same boat took flash pictures for nearly the entire ride.

 

[ChadNelson]

I tend to loose patience with groups of teens (sorry teens) walking side by side by side by side not really going anywhere.

 

[Matt_Black]

It absolutely infuriates me when I see people locking arms when moving through heavy crowds during parades or fireworks. I get that you need to hold your child's hand. But grown adults do not need to make a human chain as they exit. 2 people fine but there is no need to link up your entire party together.

Maybe they're trying to reenact that one scene from The Monkees opening credit sequence, did you ever think of that? When the Monkees are outlawed, only outlaws will love the Monkees!

 

[crxbrett]

Parents who allowed their son (About 8 years old) to urinate in a planter outside of Expedition Everest (the area where you can watch the cars come down the drop outside of Everest.) I am usually not shocked by much, but their lack of respect and social awareness floored me...

Sounds like Disneyland in HK or Shanghai!

 

[Legendary]

As long as you don't consider that physical problems are not standard. Each person has a different capacity of mobility. Wheelchairs can be used by anyone regardless of incapacity, however, there are mental well beings to be considered as well and unless you have been in that situation there is no way that you can pretend to know who or what is essential to their well being. Physical or Mental. The general idea that it is the operator that is at fault is as erroneous as saying that the pathways in WDW are never used for commercial vehicle traffic. Just simply isn't true.

I have to ask... just how often have you seen that situation. I have been going there for 34 years and have never seen a group of people linked arm in arm. And it is in a line not a blockade across the crowd. I know this because they would never get anywhere. Linked is so that members of the group don't get lost in the crowd.

I see it all the time. Happens all the time after parades, fireworks park closing. I'm not saying that people are linked across making a blockade. They are holding hands and following each other in a line. Makes it very difficult to cross a pathway during busy times.

 

[KraftServices]

I usually don't get upset at stuff. I do get upset when someone steps in front of a scooter because they didn't look and then yells at the person in the scooter when it was their own damn fault. Almost every incident that I have witnessed, and there have been quite a few, have been the fault of the person that got hit and then proceeded to act like a jerk and blame someone else. I have also gone to WDW at least once every year for nearly 35 years and have never been hit by a scooter or a stroller yet. Why? Because I pay attention to where I am and where I am walking.

I am bewildered by the complaint about people stopping in the middle of the path (no injury involved) because I would bet my life savings that there isn't one person, including the loudest complainers, that haven't done that AT LEAST ONCE. It's a big place with a lot of things that divert our attention and directions that are sometimes confusing. If we live in glass houses we really shouldn't throw stones. Those are unintentional human happenings unlike cutting lines, swearing, wearing obscenities on T-shirts and using cameras in dark rides.

So we shouldn't complain about people stopping in walkways, not just at Disney bit literally everywhere, because MAYBE we've done it too? That's really stupid.

And I've never stepped out in front of a scooter but I HAVE been rammed into by one on many occasions, including standing in line in the grocery store, because obviously slicing my ankles open is going to get the person in front of me to move faster.

 

[trainplane3]

Might catch some flak for this one, but here we go.

Had a small group of spanish speaking teens trying to cut by my friends and I in POTC. We were all making sure they weren't going to get by us, but they were a determined bunch. Well, they started yelling in our direction. I had 3 years of spanish in high school at that point (went on to take another 2 in college). I turned around and and said something along the lines of "I hate you because you're ugly". Well, they got quiet extremely quickly and stopped pushing. I guess they figured I knew what they were saying the whole time, which I understood very little of. Far fetched, I know. But somehow it worked. My friends just burst out laughing. That group didn't make eye contact with us the entire time in line and were quiet the rest of the time.
Not exactly proud of it since it could've gone a very different direction.

 

[AndrewsJ]

Ok, so I posted in another thread about how a kid was dangerously leaning against the Monorail doors (scaring the beegeezus out of my husband and I) to where we had to step in and fuss at a random kid because his parents weren't regarding their child at all.

I want to hear your stories where people you have seen in the Disney parks just don't pay attention to the rules (or decide at some point where they are above the rules).

There is a thread in the resorts section about 5 non club level guests joining 2 club level guests in the club level lounge. Entitlement syndrome runs rampant. I've seen kids doing crazy things while parents are oblivious so I feel your pain. There is a mentality that "we are at WDW and we can do whatever we want and Disney can't or won't say a word about it". "It's Disney, not the real world so it's totally safe!" I don't get it.

 

[Driver]

Just looking for clarification here. We rarely take Disney buses. The last time we did, Disney policy for people in ECVs was to pull up to the front of a bus queue and be loaded onto the empty bus first, with their guests, before anyone else was allowed to board, no matter how long they had been standing and waiting. Are you saying that is no longer policy and ECV riders have to wait in line with everyone else?

The policy has not changed . But to be clear I will give it a quick rundown. Pull the ECV up to the Queue and get in the yellow box. The box is lined up toward the mid to rear of the bus(depending on the queue layout) if the bus has passengers exiting that happens first then the driver tells the folks waiting that he will load the ECV first (and their immediate family) after the loading the rear door is closed and guest are invited on through the front door. Please always load through the front door it is a DOT requirement and it's for your safety. What was mentioned earlier was "zooming" when a ECV zooms over to an active loading and expects everything to stop for them. In that case the driver is under no obligation (per the ADA) to give special treatment. But as a courtesy a driver will acknowledge the ECV operator and call for another bus if there is no room or way of loading the "zoom" ECV. Please tell me if I didn't explain that clearly.

 

[Driver]

This was really part of the point I was trying to clarify. I didn't think loading the ECVs first was an ADA regulation. I always thought it was a Disney internal policy based on trying to get the vehicle on an empty bus rather than trying to squeeze it only an already full or partially full bus.

A bus doesn't pull up to every queue empty. When in a multi stop resort such as Caribbean Beach you could have half a bus full and have a ECV waiting at the next stop....... half full yeah you can get the ECV on.

 

[Caerus]

Honestly, I really haven't seen much rulebreaking over the years (except flash photography on dark rides). Mostly just breeches in common courtesy and social etiquette. People tend to not pay much attention to outside of their bubble, which becomes an issue when you have so many thousands crammed into a small space.

There was one time though... on the Carousel of Progress, about 3 years ago. The ride broke down, and we were stuck with the one scene repeating for a while. People started standing up to try to leave, and the loudspeaker would remind everyone that they must stay seated, for their own safety, and the scene would restart. This happens anytime someone stands in any part of the ride, not just your room, so it kept happening over and over and over. It was so frustrating that the ride was finally working, but people would not keep their butts in the chair long enough for it to finish. A grown man, looked like a bodybuilder, freaked out and ran to the door, kicking and smacking it while shouting he wanted to leave (as his kids and wife watched from their chairs). It was pretty intense though. IIRC, we were on the ride for well over an hour, and I was crossing my legs and dancing in my seat by the end. Have not set foot on Carousel of Progress since, lol.

There's a doorway down that path, just beyond a turn that is generated by a concrete wall. The door is down some stairs but there was a giant wall of people that was coming into the POTC queue through that door. I asked someone who came in the door if they were with a group and got a blank stare, then heard them speaking in Portugese. This was not a small group of people, nor were they particularly young so it gave me the impression that this wasn't a typical South American tour group. After 'merging' with this group (with the mass of people it was not possible to stay behind the group of people we had been behind the entire time in line), we eventually made it above the area the boats float in from and then down the ramp to load.

I mentioned this to a CM and pointed out some of the people who had come through the door and he just said that the door shouldn't be open and they'd look into it.

Ugh, that would be so frustrating. I wonder if that is the door I mistakenly went though again about 3 years ago. I was pregnant, and was nervous about riding POTC, so I walked through the queue with my husband and friends then asked the CM where the exit was. I thought I followed the directions she gave me, but apparently not! Went through the door, and it swung shut and locked behind me (like a bad horror movie), leaving me in this random back area with a dumpster, a fence, and a small road. I couldn't figure out what to do, there was nobody I could ask for help from, and my phone was dead. After a while, I was contemplating hauling my preggo butt down the road to look for help, and this tour group showed up. I kind of slipped into the back of their group, followed them through the gate, and explained to the tour guide what had happened. It was pretty wild to get so lost at Disney World!

 

[Goofyernmost]

I see it all the time. Happens all the time after parades, fireworks park closing. I'm not saying that people are linked across making a blockade. They are holding hands and following each other in a line. Makes it very difficult to cross a pathway during busy times.

Well, I think it is much more important that that family or group stay together then the fact that you have to wait a few seconds to cross the path.

So we shouldn't complain about people stopping in walkways, not just at Disney bit literally everywhere, because MAYBE we've done it too? That's really stupid.

And I've never stepped out in front of a scooter but I HAVE been rammed into by one on many occasions, including standing in line in the grocery store, because obviously slicing my ankles open is going to get the person in front of me to move faster.

That first paragraph pretty much spells out which one of us is stupid. Nice try though. I'm guessing that the next time you inadvertently (means not on purpose) stop in front of someone instead of just walking around you, they run up and punch you in the face, because, hey that was a awful thing you did, stopping like that.

As far as the "ramming" situation, I don't know the details and frankly don't care, however, I'm sure that person targeted you and had come in from some parallel universe where running into people makes them move faster. A place where accidents just don't happen and the desire to hurt people is the way of life. Did you know that insurance companies can and do raise your rates because you are involved in accidents that weren't even your fault? The logic is if you are involved in enough of them, then you are placing yourself in a position to have that accident. You might not have been the person listed as "at fault", but the more you put yourself in that position the more likely it is that the accident will happen and therefore the higher risk you are for them.

 

[Legendary]

Well, I think it is much more important that that family or group stay together then the fact that you have to wait a few seconds to cross the path.

That first paragraph pretty much spells out which one of us is stupid. Nice try though. I'm guessing that the next time you inadvertently (means not on purpose) stop in front of someone instead of just walking around you, they run up and punch you in the face, because, hey that was a awful thing you did, stopping like that.

As far as the "ramming" situation, I don't know the details and frankly don't care, however, I'm sure that person targeted you and had come in from some parallel universe where running into people makes them move faster. A place where accidents just don't happen and the desire to hurt people is the way of life. Did you know that insurance companies can and do raise your rates because you are involved in accidents that weren't even your fault? The logic is if you are involved in enough of them, then you are placing yourself in a position to have that accident. You might not have been the person listed as "at fault", but the more you put yourself in that position the more likely it is that the accident will happen and therefore the higher risk you are for them.

Per the first part. Its not that I have to wait a few seconds. Its that I stop dead in my tracks as well as hundreds of people behind me and inevitably get shoved or stepped on. Dominos effect. I get you want to stay together. Again 2 people I have no problem with. 5 or 6 adults no need for it. Just my experience. Have some consideration for the people around you and not block walkways.

 

[Sonconato]

I guess MK is BYOB now (found in the planter next to Merchant of Venus)

 

[Bronson55]

I know you have heard me say this before, but since it came up again, I'll say it again (I guess mainly for others)..... motor vehicles do not belong on pedestrian pathways. Especially not ultra-crowded pathways. Not golf carts. Not scooters. Not those loud gas powered skateboard things. Not cars. Not mopeds. None of it does. Shoot, I don't even think skateboards, rollerskates, roller blades or horses should be allowed. For the same reason; people can stop quicker than most vehicles and vehicles are heavier (and harder) than people. What is deemed safe should consider this. People also trip, stumble, and sidestep constantly just adding to the gauntlet of terror that are vehicle infested pedestrian pathways.

The only thing I know that stops as fast as people are standard powered wheelchairs. ...not to be confused with the scooter things people are passing off as somehow the same thing. Not the same thing.

All that being said, an ultra cautious scooter driver can actually navigate a crowd. It will be slow. It will be arduous. It will be frustrating. But it can be done. Of course some scooter drivers give up on safe (or are incapable of it), drive fast, somebody trips in front of them, they ram them, then somehow it is the person that trips fault?

To put it more simply, any scooter speed that results in hitting a pedestrian is too fast. I cannot think of any scenario where a scooter -vs- pedestrian impact is the pedestrians fault as any speed driven by a scooter that results in impact is too fast.

It is a big ole catch 22. If your scooter hits somebody for any reason, you were going too fast. Defensive driving 101 - Assume everyone will trip in front of you and drive accordingly.

The times I was hit and not just rolled over, the driver was going almost slow enough to avoid me. It smarted a little, but I was able to walk it off none the worse for wear. Slower would have resulted in no impact.

I doesn't seem like you have ever had the need for an ECV but you are absolutely incorrect assuming every incident is the fault of the ECV driver. I have been in an ECV, stopped dead for the safety of the crowds in front and on both sides of me and still adults and more often children tripped over the ECV. So, by your logic that was my fault because I rode it on pavement ? ECVs stop pretty darn fast as long as your are driving responsibly. Why should where these devices at WDW follow rules different from anywhere else in the country? There are idiots and oblivious ECV, wheelchiar, rickshaw, motor vehicle operators everywhere but there are probably more able bodied people in the same catagory. My medical condition does not currently warrant the ownership and use of one of those stop on a dime wheelchairs you mentioned but it will fairly soon. In the meantime my option is to stay home since my mobility is very limited or, rent an ECV which will please my family but I'm sure will annoy the Disney bus users and all the people who assume we are all roving bands of lazy scammers .Guess which option I choose? . For the overwhelming majority of people who do understand that for the grace of God go I ,sorry for the preceeding. Your complaints were legitimate but way over blown and the recommendations rediculus .