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What's with the wait times!? (hint.. they're low)

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
I keep hearing how crowds are down at Disneyland and the bosses are panicking. This may be a dumb question but is there evidence that attendance is down? I understand there isn't the crazy crowding many people feared. I also understand that GE doesn't seem to be the draw Disney wanted. But is it possible that attendance is similar to previous years, but the additional capacity from GE is spreading the crowds more? Thereby making the park seem less crowded?

Asked another way, is the problem fewer people, or no increase of people?
They admitted that attendance was down during quarterly earnings reports. Most of the "crowd tracker" Web sites have reported far lower numbers than usual for most of the summer (although they base their data on wait times, since actual attendance isn't public).

Things got up to average during the peak summer weeks in late July, but have otherwise been low - sometimes dramatically so.
 

Disney Irish

Well-Known Member
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You have a lot of chutzpah to call me out on assumptions when you made it to begin with on your theories. Either way, you're still sticking to your assumptions and that's a lot of ridiculousness.

A less packed park means Disney will never make the sale if the customer was never there. Every day that goes by is a lost opportunity.
Do you have any actual data from Disney to back up your claims? If so share it with the rest of the class and we can all learn. If not (and we all pretty much know you don't) then you have no bases to know whether my assumptions are less valid then yours. So in the end we're both here spouting our opinions, that is all.
 

SSG

Well-Known Member
They admitted that attendance was down during quarterly earnings reports. Most of the "crowd tracker" Web sites have reported far lower numbers than usual for most of the summer (although they base their data on wait times, since actual attendance isn't public).

Things got up to average during the peak summer weeks in late July, but have otherwise been low - sometimes dramatically so.
I appreciate the answer. Since you steered me to the quarterly report I found it online. It does say domestic park attendance is down but not by how much or how the lower attendance breaks down between Anaheim and Orlando. I don't suppose we'll find out from Disney.

Out of curiosity I just looked at the Disneyland app and MF is at 40 minutes, but that's 3rd in DLR behind Soarin' at 60 and RSR at 45.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Since you steered me to the quarterly report I found it online. It does say domestic park attendance is down but not by how much or how the lower attendance breaks down between Anaheim and Orlando. I don't suppose we'll find out from Disney.
You will never find out as they won't disclose it as there is a benefit to keeping the info opaque so analysts can't do the math on their own. I wrote quarterly talking points for years and I can assure you that you will only see positive factoids taken out of context to drive a point home (WDW guest spend in merchandise is up 10% from prior quarter! But it's actually down 5% from prior year or its because an extra holiday week was in the quarter, etc, etc). There are very talented teams of people in every company's IR team that specialize in this skill.

The only thing you will ever get from Disney is the consolidated domestic parks/cruises/hotels OIBDA and OI and with a business that large it will be nearly impossible to discern the minutiae we're discussing. Even determining the depreciation impact for SWGE next year will be difficult with other cruise ships, hotels, and other investments coming online. You can hide a lot of issues in a P&L that large.

So we are left with logic and observations based on history. Back to the discussion....
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
I don't think "touting" means what you think it does.

Long waits anywhere, including Disneyland, are a deterrent not an incentive.
This ignores reality. Long lines are highly valued in many cases especially theme parks, Star Wars, movie premiers, shopping (i.e. Black Friday, Disney limited items), ComicCon and convention events, Disneyland and Magic Kingdom on Christmas Week, new restaurant openings. Other than that and possibly many more, then fine.

No one goes to Disneyland as it is too crowded. Nor do people go when its uncrowded.
 

Disney Irish

Well-Known Member
Do you have any facts to back up your factual beliefs? Then you have no right to question my arguments with any imaginary claims you have about why people spend money as they do in Disney theme parks. You’re definitely sprouting defiantly.
I've never claimed anything I discussed were anything more than my opinions. The only time I claim anything different is when I provide links to data to backup what I'm stating.

So I turn that back at you. You have no right to question my argument with your imaginary claims on how you believe people spend their money at Disney Parks.
 

mlayton144

Active Member
i Would think Disney would make much more money on tourists than APs. And tourists like myself will spends LOTS of money , but only if the crowds are reasonable. If someone is standing in line are they spending money ?
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
i Would think Disney would make much more money on tourists than APs. And tourists like myself will spends LOTS of money , but only if the crowds are reasonable. If someone is standing in line are they spending money ?
Wasn't this the whole business case behind Fastpass? If you want a guest spending money, the worst possible thing you can do is have them standing in long lines all day.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Another sunny September Friday with no AP blockouts. And the pedestrian bridge opened today! Let's see what happens with the wait times this evening after work. But right now things aren't too busy in the parks, except for Splash Mt. because it's sunny and hot and Radiator Racers because of John Lassetter.

Here are the various Star Wars and Halloween themed wait times at 2:30, plus the longest waits;

Luigi's Honkin' Haul-O-Ween, Mater's Junkyard JamBOOree - 5 Minutes
Star Tours - 10 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy (regular daytime version) - 15 Minutes
Haunted Mansion Holiday - 25 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain - 30 Minutes
Millennium Falcon - 35 Minutes
Radiator Springs Racers - 60 Minutes
Splash Mountain - 65 Minutes
 

mandelbrot

Well-Known Member
Okay, wait a minute, there's not only a thing called the Golden Ticket Awards, but there was a new ride this year called Reese's Cupfusion and you are just now telling us about this?!? :D

I just Googled Reese's Cupfusion. I assumed it was a teacup ride, but it's actually a dark ride where you shoot laser beams at little chocolate creatures. Or something. How did we not know about this???

"Intruders detected, stun them with some sweetness!"
Screenz! And a disembodied voice telling you what to do! What's not to love?
 

mandelbrot

Well-Known Member
Double agree. How is Guardians who many called a Chapek cheap overlay doing better than a new Star Wars attraction? Chapek can at least claim the success of one cheap makeover. Now do the second one. Overlay Batuu as Tatooine. Ha ha. Will they do it?

Anyways, I will be at DCA soon for Halloween. I won’t be able to ride Monsters After Dark with 75 minutes wait unless I’m willing to waste most of my evening for one ride.
Guardians is still FUN! Millennium Falcon is not fun. Physical thrills will always matter in theme park attractions.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Another sunny September Friday with no AP blockouts. And the pedestrian bridge opened today! Let's see what happens with the wait times this evening after work. But right now things aren't too busy in the parks, except for Splash Mt. because it's sunny and hot and Radiator Racers because of John Lassetter.

Here are the various Star Wars and Halloween themed wait times at 2:30, plus the longest waits;

Luigi's Honkin' Haul-O-Ween, Mater's Junkyard JamBOOree - 5 Minutes
Star Tours - 10 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy (regular daytime version) - 15 Minutes
Haunted Mansion Holiday - 25 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain - 30 Minutes
Millennium Falcon - 35 Minutes
Radiator Springs Racers - 60 Minutes
Splash Mountain - 65 Minutes
It’s a nope from me.

 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Guardians is still FUN! Millennium Falcon is not fun. Physical thrills will always matter in theme park attractions.
It's 7:30pm now, and the Friday after-work AP crowd has descended again this evening. Wait times have bumped up for all the Halloween rides, but actually dropped for Millennium Falcon.

Referencing the above, today's 2:30pm wait times are in blue, and the current 7:30pm wait times are in red.

Luigi's Honkin' Haul-O-Ween - 5 Minutes 30 Minutes
Incredicoaster - 5 Minutes 25 Minutes
Star Tours - 10 Minutes 15 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy - (regular daytime version) 15 Minutes (Monsters After Dark! version) 75 Minutes
Haunted Mansion Holiday - 25 Minutes 50 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain - 30 Minutes 45 Minutes
Millennium Falcon: Target Run - 35 Minutes 25 Minutes
Radiator Springs Racers - 60 Minutes 90 Minutes


This is not the first time this crowd/demand trend has played out for Star Wars Land, and it won't be the last.

I would think as the fall rolls along this would be increasingly troubling for TDA and Burbank, although WDI execs in Glendale will probably blame someone else (marketing, hurricanes, Knott's Scary Farm, record low unemployment, snack bar CM's who don't say Bright Suns! enough, the homeless living in the riverbed, Chapek, or all of the above).

And yet they are running commercials in SoCal for a decorated food court patio with Plaza de la Familia???
 
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Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
It's 7:30pm now, and the Friday after-work AP crowd has descended again this evening. Wait times have bumped up for all the Halloween rides, but actually dropped for Millennium Falcon.

Referencing the above, today's 2:30pm wait times are in blue, and the current 7:30pm wait times are in red.

Luigi's Honkin' Haul-O-Ween - 5 Minutes 30 Minutes
Incredicoaster - 5 Minutes 25 Minutes
Star Tours - 10 Minutes 15 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy - (regular daytime version) 15 Minutes (Monsters After Dark! version) 75 Minutes
Haunted Mansion Holiday - 25 Minutes 50 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain - 30 Minutes 45 Minutes
Millennium Falcon: Target Run - 35 Minutes 25 Minutes
Radiator Springs Racers - 60 Minutes 90 Minutes
I feel like DCA is the new AP hangout?
 

BubbaQuest

Well-Known Member
Glad to see Disney still can't figure out how to handle the AP crowds.

It's 7:30pm now, and the Friday after-work AP crowd has descended again this evening. Wait times have bumped up for all the Halloween rides, but actually dropped for Millennium Falcon.

Referencing the above, today's 2:30pm wait times are in blue, and the current 7:30pm wait times are in red.

Luigi's Honkin' Haul-O-Ween - 5 Minutes 30 Minutes
Incredicoaster - 5 Minutes 25 Minutes
Star Tours - 10 Minutes 15 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy - (regular daytime version) 15 Minutes (Monsters After Dark! version) 75 Minutes
Haunted Mansion Holiday - 25 Minutes 50 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain - 30 Minutes 45 Minutes
Millennium Falcon: Target Run - 35 Minutes 25 Minutes
Radiator Springs Racers - 60 Minutes 90 Minutes
And these numbers still baffle me.
 
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