mickEblu
Well-Known Member
@flynnibus so tell me again about that read fail. What dates is he talking about that caused the big panic? I bolded it for you just in case you miss it again.
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@flynnibus so tell me again about that read fail. What dates is he talking about that caused the big panic? I bolded it for you just in case you miss it again.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of people are really Star Warsed out. I have no evidence of this, of course. The series will probably always be popular in our lifetimes, but they seem to have reached a limit of exposure where general audiences are kinda over it. Maybe they shouldn't have killed Luke and Han.
This happened to Star Trek in the late 90s/early 2000s. Too many shows, too many movies of varying quality and cocky producers too sure of themselves after incredible mainstream success (with even an immersive themed attraction) resulting in diminishing ratings, cancellation and reverting back to a cult following. They even killed Captain Kirk in a passing of the torch movie, which didn't go over well with anyone. The demise of Star Trek should have been a cautionary tale.
This happened to Star Trek in the late 90s/early 2000s. Too many shows, too many movies of varying quality and cocky producers too sure of themselves after incredible mainstream success (with even an immersive themed attraction) resulting in diminishing ratings, cancellation and reverting back to a cult following. They even killed Captain Kirk in a passing of the torch movie, which didn't go over well with anyone. The demise of Star Trek should have been a cautionary tale.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Two things:
1. Marvel?
2. The Star Trek comparison is fair. But don’t forget the content became largely repititive and/or sucked.
The Kirk movie was one of the worst ideas ever...3 of the 4 Next Generation movies were beyond bad.
And rick Berman became a clown that needed to be fired...
...ok...you got me on the last one - Kennedy is more of a clueless show runner than berman. And now they have Johnson and D&D lined up...I can’t think of a duo riding a bigger cold streak of story failures.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Listen to yourself. You are putting your whole argument on “who would come”
Disneyland knows a lot better than you on who has aps and who doesn’t. They crossed that bridge with the Ap blackout calendar long before this June.
Disney doesn’t plan to shutdown during the blackout periods - they fully expect a busy park. That’s what shapes who gets blacked out or not! With no SoCal aps, they expect those to be offset by tourists, etc.
You can call them arrogant if you want... but TDA didn’t setup for GE opening to be a ghost town... nor for the peak of summer travel season to be trending way down to normal visiting... especially after opening the biggest brand expansion in generations.
shambolicdefending
Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder...
Is there an example of a multi-generational franchise that hasn't eventually had the wheels run off it by those seeking to eternally milk the cow?
Maybe this is just the circle of life...
truecoat
Well-Known Member
I'm a guy who goes once a year if I'm lucky and I postponed my trip over July 4th due to ROTR not finished. It has nothing to do with Star Wars fatigue, I don't think that's a thing. It all had to do with wanted to see the completed SW GE, not a partial. I did contemplate a quick trip in August after hearing ROTR won't open until January but I have a cruise at the end of August and will save the money.
socalifornian
Well-Known Member
Iger blames it on quantity
>>Now, Iger believes the company did “a little too much, too fast.”
“But I think we’re going to be a little bit more careful about volume and timing. And the buck stops here on that.”
As a Star Wars fan I blame it on quality
>>Now, Iger believes the company did “a little too much, too fast.”
“But I think we’re going to be a little bit more careful about volume and timing. And the buck stops here on that.”
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
As a Star Wars fan I blame it on quality
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I didn’t say they expected a ghost town. I said I’m sure they expected some sort of a decrease in revenue this June. Probably thinking they would more than make up for it in July and beyond.
I noticed you didn’t address the other post I quoted where it was you who actually failed to read the post correctly. It’s all good.
WDW Pro
Well-Known Member
That's PR Spin to lower damage to the franchise. There's no reason that Star Wars should be any less popular than Marvel, if it was executed properly. The issue is that they produced two excellent films, then produced a film that was extremely abrasive one way or the other, followed that up with a PR nightmare of allowing their fan base to be villanized, and now everyone sort of sees that Lucasfilm has been horribly mismanaged. If you had a Kevin Feige in charge of Lucasfilm from 2012 to now, Star Wars would be a behemoth like Disney expected. Disney knows this; they have excellent polling to determine the root cause.
They need JJ to pull a rabbit out of the hat for Episode 9. Given that they ordered certain story elements from Alan Horn after the first screening to top Disney execs, that may be a long shot. Although, I will say that JJ is a very proud director, and he may actually pull it off. If he flubs it, it may take a decade to repair Star Wars. If he hits the grand slam with the odds against it, The Mandalorian will need to keep the momentum going.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Mostly agree...but they haven’t made two excellent films. They made a couple that resonated in certain ways...but none were excellent. Buzz propelled the farce and about a week of the last Johnson....feel was best in rogue but the story was still off.
It culminated in boredom and apathy by 2018.
Episode 9 is basically DOA. Doesn’t mean it will flop...but there’s nothing left to salvage that will bring any kind of closure befitting the franchise. When you can’t get to Yub Yub...you got a problem.
The franchise needs a clean sweep, full reset. The streaming services offer an opportunity to build character strength - which has been all but non-existent - in a more viewer accessible format. But we’re talking a streaming audience to fill the void of the juggernaut of the box office that had worldwide recognition on a level rarely seen?
It’s sketchy at best.
From Disney’s perspective: they have punted. Excuses why it’s not a huge hit on the marvel level, coupled with bob not acting on management - which means he won’t before retirement. It’s a huge problem now and moving forward.
I’m up for being proven wrong...as always. But it has to be reasonable arguments based on real life. And that is what people seem to be struggling with.
Andrew M
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I think happened. The general consensus was that the land was going to be a madhouse. Outside of the die-hards who need to be 'first' (which I will never understand), everyone else stayed far away and made other plans not wanting to deal with unprecedented crowds.
I was originally planning a DL trip for this summer, but pushed it back to next winter when the opening was announced, I didn't want to be anywhere near there. Outside of locals, it's going to take time for people to realize the overcrowding fears never materialized and schedule their trips.
Brings to mind the old Yogi Berra quote.. "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded"
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Also trying to convince the audiences they love it because it Star Wars....not because the first had decent stories with well developed characters...might have been a key oversight as well.
They can’t even use R2D2 right anymore.
Now to be fair to Disney...it’s not like Lucas ever made a second set of movies and screwed them up deviating from the formula or anything
...
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Rich T
Well-Known Member
Star Wars fatigue is a real thing. How could it not be? There are a billion equally interesting fantasy stories out there competing with it now. This isn't 1977 when (believe it or not) most of the GP pre-SW thought of Sci-fi as Giant Bug movies from all the 1950's movie reruns on tv, and SW hit pop culture like a giant dayglo meteor of joy. Now aliens, CGI, spaceships, monsters and flashy effects are everywhere, 24-7, on 500 channels. Character is the only thing that can really make a franchise stand out now, and Disney has fumbled that part of SW so far. I think most of the GP is currently more interested in the fates of Hopper, Joyce, El and Dustin on Stranger Things than in what happens to Reyfinnpoe.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Star Wars had a period between the mid-80s and early 90s where its popularity faded, there was little to no merchandise, no new movies and not even the promise of new movies to come. This was when I first discovered it and it's just weird to think back to a time when you could walk into all stores and not find a single Star Wars item.
It seems that each time there's a lengthy break between movies, the franchise comes back in a huge way. Unfortunately, Disney decided to boldy go where Lucas had never gone before with simultaneous spinoff stories, a boring supposedly billion dollar extension of Walt Disney's classic theme park that looks like a middle eastern warzone and so on. It's kinda like when Red Leader lets loose his photon torpedoes into the Death Star's hole. It makes a big impact initially but it doesn't get the intended result in the long run.
It seems that each time there's a lengthy break between movies, the franchise comes back in a huge way. Unfortunately, Disney decided to boldy go where Lucas had never gone before with simultaneous spinoff stories, a boring supposedly billion dollar extension of Walt Disney's classic theme park that looks like a middle eastern warzone and so on. It's kinda like when Red Leader lets loose his photon torpedoes into the Death Star's hole. It makes a big impact initially but it doesn't get the intended result in the long run.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Character is everything...it brings you in to the stories and makes you “care” about topics that may not be a big deal to you.
Want examples?
Pull up Netflix; or Hulu or prime and watch seasons 3-7 of the next generation, or ds9. If you want more edge - watch BSG.
It was all about the character developments. Hamill carries the OT...and the characterizations of Vader and yoda (an amazing job by brackett, kasdan, kirshner and Oz on yoda....and Kurtz) in small amounts of screen time are astounding today. Same with MacDiarmid in Jedi...
That’s why they worked, grabbed us and never let go...as much as they have been torpedoed since.
How to fix Star Wars? I got an idea...people want a Feige?...look at the credits of TNG, DS9 and BSG and find the name that matches.
Star Wars faded in a pre internet, digital on demand world.
Except it didn’t...conventions and toy collectors came around...and nbc showing the movies on tv was appointment television over and over again. I can remember vhs taping Jedi on an hbo preview weekend at like 9 on a Friday morning and running home to watch it (the vhs tapes were not being sold at that time so it was probably 86-87ish?). That tape was like gold. I think it broke down naturally due to overuse
We had pop franchises...but nothing filled that void. Back to the future, Batman, ghostbusters, karate kid, terminators...they didn’t get to the collection of emotions that Star Wars did. Indy probably was closest but the 3 principals moved away from them.
I will always be amazed at how Star Wars grew in power in the “dark years”...and how Lucas and then Disney never bothered to talk to enough fans to figure out why? That’s why the first prequel cleared an ENTIRE movie slate in 1999. And the special editions were #1 at the box office for several weekends each in early 97.
Austin powers: the spy who ged me was the only movie to be released that summer - and they brilliantly made fun of themselves in the trailers. It was genius. Great movie too.
George and Disney made the wrong choice: it was “money over mythos”...and paper can’t overcome the power of the mind/imagination.
Others have gotten it right...Peter Jackson...Rowling’s...now the mcu people.
LFL not so much since.
As far as your second paragraph goes...yeah - all that, you nailed it
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Transformers and GI joe were mostly around 84-86. Jedi was just in 83. On the toy front Star Wars was way behind... but hadn't really left the mindset of the public.. but yes the new toys had overtaken star wars.. but that was still in the recent wake of SW. The real dormant period was later.. where we only had books, and later video games to carry the torch. The quiet times of the late 80s and into the 90s is really what fueled the fire that burned for the special editions and the prequels. The hunger never left... but it was way under served. Special Editions and prequel news was like the second coming
I have the same recollection. The hunger was very much growing rampantly in the early 90’s.
I can remember looking at the Heir to the Empire in my hands and tingling a little...
The power of the force toy line was wildly popular.
XWing and Tie Fighter....Lucas arts titles were all heavily bought and hyped.
They would do the Star Wars hours with sansweet on qvc and sell out of everything in a minute.
I saw the magic of myth exhibits at the air and space and there were more people in line that day than I think have gone to Star Wars land so far
And we all froze...dead stopped...when those trailers were released in the Stone Age Internet.
In retrospect...the expectations were too high. But the fans never failed Star Wars and the fanbase was unique in so many ways.
It’s kinda why it’s hard to take the oversimplification by younger generations with “armed touchscreens” seriously...you have very little idea.
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shambolicdefending
Well-Known Member
Well in fairness, those "younger generations" are a big part of Disney's strategy to make back the billions they spent buying Star Wars. So, while the rest of us can shamelessly ignore them because they lack legitimate historical context, Disney suits should be taking a serious interest in what they have to say.I have the same recollection. The hungry was very much growing rampantly in the early 90’s.
I can remember looking at the Heir to the Empire in my hands and tingling a little...
The power of the force toy line was wildly popular.
XWing and Tie Fighter....Lucas arts titles were all heavily bought and hyped.
They would do the Star Wars hours with sansweet on qvc and sell out of everything in a minute.
I saw the magic of myth exhibits at the air and space and there were more people in line that day than I think have gone to Star Wars land so far
And we all froze...dead stopped...when those trailers were released in the Stone Age Internet.
In retrospect...the expectations were too high. But the fans never failed Star Wars and the fanbase was unique in so many ways.
It’s kinda why it’s hard to take the oversimplification by younger generations with “armed touchscreens” seriously...you have very little idea.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
No doubt...bu they still have less skin in the game and are far more fickle
The strategic goal is sound...the execution has been pretty bad
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Disneyland has become a ‘ghost town’
To say that Disneyland’s new Star Wars-themed Galaxy’s Edge land is a big deal would be an understatement. The highly anticipated $1 billion, 14-acre immersive expansion was the biggest in pa…
nypost.com
>>This week, long after the reservation embargo, the park is empty. Well, empty for Disneyland.
That’s right — if you visit Disneyland right this minute, you’ll find a scene out of your theme park dreams: Pulling up to your favorite ride and hopping right on with little to no wait. It’s even being called a “ghost town” by some visitors.<<