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What would you like to see changed if Fantasmic! goes on a refurb?
- Thread starter prbiker15
- Start date
_Scar
Active Member
You must forget that a next generation of people buying tickets to DHS grew up on Disney decade movies, so... why a throw back? I know about 20k from being a die-hard Disney fan, but the general public isn't.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Yeah, that's what I thought too. :shrug:Funny you should mention that. I always think of the Mickey from Brave Little Tailor whenever I watch it...
But I think it's odd they only show the actual Sorcerer Mickey at the VERY end of the show.
I would much rather just see Tux Mickey at the beginning, Sorcerer for the Fantasia scene, Classic for when he is chased, and then Sorcerer for the fight and the finale.
Umm...Did you guys even read about what they do at DL instead?:wave:
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
If Disneyland can do it, so can WDW. Even faux tress could be made (like the ones found at the Canada pavilion) if there is that much of a concern, and they could even made scaled to give the stage a greater sense of size.
Crap. BS. Nonsense. Not only do you not have any proof for this (is that way Bambi sold a million copies in it's fist day of DVD release in 2005?) it's utter bullsh*t to suggest the very concept of 20K is so difficult to grasp that no child anywhere could comprehend it (the story itself is well known). People have the capacity to learn on top the fact that the suggestion for it's inclusion was by the Imagineers themselves.
Why a throw back? Jesus, I don't know. Maybe because it would make a good addition and it's nice for Disney to use it's extensive film library of classic titles (and 20K is) and not pander to kids who have only been "brought up" on specific things because the company doesn't care enough to acknowledge it's own history.
Then again, your the one who suggested replacing the "sea monster" with Usrula because it wasn't "Hollywood" enough.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
If Disneyland can do it, so can WDW. Even faux tress could be made (like the ones found at the Canada pavilion) if there is that much of a concern, and they could even made scaled to give the stage a greater sense of size.
Crap. BS. Nonsense. Not only do you not have any proof for this (is that way Bambi sold a million copies in it's fist day of DVD release in 2005?) it's utter bullsh*t to suggest the very concept of 20K is so difficult to grasp that no child anywhere could comprehend it (the story itself is well known). People have the capacity to learn on top the fact that the suggestion for it's inclusion was by the Imagineers themselves.
Why a throw back? Jesus, I don't know. Maybe because it would make a good addition and it's nice for Disney to use it's extensive film library of classic titles (and 20K is) and not pander to kids who have only been "brought up" on specific things because the company doesn't care enough to acknowledge it's own history.
Then again, your the one who suggested replacing the "sea monster" with Usrula because it wasn't "Hollywood" enough.
Well said!
:wave:
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
This is the second time I heard Brave Little Tailor - it was on Lou Mongello's trivia calendar today - I have never heard of this before and apparently it's the inspiration for Sir Mickey's.
EPCOTPluto
Well-Known Member
True.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Interesting...He looks nothing like him, prolly why we never knew.:lol:
Upgrade117
Member
For Pete sakes, NO 20K Under the Sea. NO live action movies.
The entire 27+ minutes of the show is of animated classics.. why in the world should they randomly throw in that live-action movie segment into Fantasmic?
20K isn't NEARLY as popular as the Animated Classics anyway. Sure, it may be a good movie and good concept, just not for Fantasmic.
Fantasmic is a show that is SUPPOSED to be a show about Mickey and the Animated Classics.. Leave this part of the show alone!
I can't really understand what you're saying, but for the Pink Elephants.. they have a short segment that their tune is played during the Bubbles scene.
Why is the Little Mermaid part of the Bubble scene? Are you crazy? Why wouldn't it be? It was the movie that started the new age of Disney Animation for one thing.. plus its just as popular as any of the other movies part of the bubbles scene. Are you saying to take it out because you just don't like it or what?
Hades honestly doesn't have a big part in the show. Literally it's 15 seconds.
It'd be nice to have SOME other live-action person, especially Hades, but with the Jafar snake scene right before it, you couldn't just put a live Hades out there without a change to the soundtrack.
And count me in for seeing Sorcerer Mickey taking down Maleficent.
The entire 27+ minutes of the show is of animated classics.. why in the world should they randomly throw in that live-action movie segment into Fantasmic?
20K isn't NEARLY as popular as the Animated Classics anyway. Sure, it may be a good movie and good concept, just not for Fantasmic.
Fantasmic is a show that is SUPPOSED to be a show about Mickey and the Animated Classics.. Leave this part of the show alone!
I can't really understand what you're saying, but for the Pink Elephants.. they have a short segment that their tune is played during the Bubbles scene.
Why is the Little Mermaid part of the Bubble scene? Are you crazy? Why wouldn't it be? It was the movie that started the new age of Disney Animation for one thing.. plus its just as popular as any of the other movies part of the bubbles scene. Are you saying to take it out because you just don't like it or what?
Hades honestly doesn't have a big part in the show. Literally it's 15 seconds.
It'd be nice to have SOME other live-action person, especially Hades, but with the Jafar snake scene right before it, you couldn't just put a live Hades out there without a change to the soundtrack.
And count me in for seeing Sorcerer Mickey taking down Maleficent.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
You got a graph that shows The Fox and the Hound and Oliver and Company are more popular than 20K? I'd love to see it if you did because that's not what Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB say.
Fantasmic! is a show about Mickey's Imagination, who said it could only involve animated properties? The 20K segment was to have Mickey in it too according to the plans made by the people who put the show together (who no offense probably have a better grasp about what the show is than you do). You choose to interpret Fantasmic! as an animated propety only show, but others may not and frankly you haven't given me any good reason to regard your opinion more highly than others.
TYPING IN CAPS LOCK DOES NOT MAKE AN OPINION ANY MORE SUBSTANTIAL.
Since 20K is arguably more of a fantasy than Pocahontas (a movie loosly based on real people instead of one which has among other things an atomic submarine in Victorian times), and the show obviously has live preformers anyway would it be much of a strectch to include it? Mickey's presence connects it better to is imagination than Pocahontas or even the Princess segemnts which don't have him at all because he's actually there playing along with his imagery. Since the show has Mary Poppins and Bert in it too at the end sometimes I don't see why it wouldn't be appropriate.
Upgrade117
Member
You got a graph that shows The Fox and the Hound and Oliver and Company are more popular than 20K? I'd love to see it if you did because that's not what Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB say.
Fantasmic! is a show about Mickey's Imagination, who said it could only involve animated properties? The 20K segment was to have Mickey in it too according to the plans made by the people who put the show together (who no offense probably have a better grasp about what the show is than you do). You choose to interpret Fantasmic! as an animated propety only show, but others may not and frankly you haven't given me any good reason to regard your opinion more highly than others.
TYPING IN CAPS LOCK DOES NOT MAKE AN OPINION ANY MORE SUBSTANTIAL.
Fantasmic was specifically created to showcase and express the classic, more popular movies in Disney history.. (which, still does not include much of any live-action, including 20K.) When people think of Disney movies, they think of the animated movies. Not 20K Leagues Under the Sea and the like.
And I am not saying there aren't good, popular live-action Disney movies.. Mary Poppins is a good example. I'm just saying Fantasmic was created to focus on the classic movies (which, are for the most part only the Animated Classics). It says so in an official description given by the Disney Parks.
Plus, Pocahontas is still more popular than the Disney 20K film..
And, I guess using caps had enough substance to have you comment on it...
I used caps to put emphasis on certain words..
And just for fun...
.. :lol:
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
^ I'd like to see that quote, as for the rest of your post it's just regular "opinion becomes fact if stated enough" nonsense.
As for your graph, "fun" is the only thing it's based on.
As for 20K not begin a "classic":
-It was the first live action movie made at the Disney studios in Burbank and gave serious creditability to concept of a Disney live action film
- It won 2 Oscars (and was nominated for a 3rd)
- It was a bigger hit than most if not all the animated features of it's decade (even Cinderella)
- In 1997 it was the only other Disney live action title to have made AFI's Top 100 American Films nominations list
- It's influence was and can still be found in the first 4 Disney Resorts
- It was the only film to be shown letterboxed on Vault Disney
- 55 years after it's original release Disney still produces merchandise based on the film
- A reinterpretation of the property is in production now at Disney which shows that the company has not forgotten about it
- It scores better on IMDB [including Hercules, Hunchback, Tarzan, Pocahontas (5.9/10!), The Rescuers, The Great Mouse Detective, Lilo and Stitch etc] and Rotten Tomatoes than most Disney animated features
Need I go on?
As for your graph, "fun" is the only thing it's based on.
As for 20K not begin a "classic":
-It was the first live action movie made at the Disney studios in Burbank and gave serious creditability to concept of a Disney live action film
- It won 2 Oscars (and was nominated for a 3rd)
- It was a bigger hit than most if not all the animated features of it's decade (even Cinderella)
- In 1997 it was the only other Disney live action title to have made AFI's Top 100 American Films nominations list
- It's influence was and can still be found in the first 4 Disney Resorts
- It was the only film to be shown letterboxed on Vault Disney
- 55 years after it's original release Disney still produces merchandise based on the film
- A reinterpretation of the property is in production now at Disney which shows that the company has not forgotten about it
- It scores better on IMDB [including Hercules, Hunchback, Tarzan, Pocahontas (5.9/10!), The Rescuers, The Great Mouse Detective, Lilo and Stitch etc] and Rotten Tomatoes than most Disney animated features
Need I go on?
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Honestly, if they really wanted to make it go through the "Worlds of Disney" it would take cues from ALL movies.:shrug:
Upgrade117
Member
Taken directly from the Fantasmic page on the Walt Disney World Resort website.
Notice how it says classic and beloved Disney animation.. and classic Disney animated characters/movies.
And yes, the quote was merely something I made.. you said you'd like to see a graph that would show Oliver and Co. and Fox and the Hound more popular than 20K... :shrug:
Notice how it says classic and beloved Disney animation.. and classic Disney animated characters/movies.
And yes, the quote was merely something I made.. you said you'd like to see a graph that would show Oliver and Co. and Fox and the Hound more popular than 20K... :shrug:
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The quote mentions animation as an effect not what the show is about. Again that's just your interpretation, no where in the press release does it claim to be a show strictly about Disney animated movies, or that it forever should be.
It says "classic villains" not "classic Disney animated villains", and "Disney classics" not "Disney animated classics". It only lists animated related stuff because that's what makes up the show now, not because it should stay that way. It's a description of the current show, not it's creator's vision.
Again you fail to see why 20K is a classic because you believe that "classic" is whatever Disney labels it in one of their press releases and you believe Hunchback (or specificaly Frollo) for example is because Disney spoon feeds the label to you on a highchair and not because you have any kind of evidence to prove it has stood the test of time or is of any kind of significance to film history or the company.
And finally it's not about 20K's status, but the concept of it in the show which dislike only because you personally don't like live action Disney represented in the show, even when it is in the form of Mary Poppins. And you still haven't proven why it's a bad idea based on say it's technical aspects or why is would not fit the "special effects extravaganza!" nature of the show, so all this talk from you is crap.
It says "classic villains" not "classic Disney animated villains", and "Disney classics" not "Disney animated classics". It only lists animated related stuff because that's what makes up the show now, not because it should stay that way. It's a description of the current show, not it's creator's vision.
Again you fail to see why 20K is a classic because you believe that "classic" is whatever Disney labels it in one of their press releases and you believe Hunchback (or specificaly Frollo) for example is because Disney spoon feeds the label to you on a highchair and not because you have any kind of evidence to prove it has stood the test of time or is of any kind of significance to film history or the company.
And finally it's not about 20K's status, but the concept of it in the show which dislike only because you personally don't like live action Disney represented in the show, even when it is in the form of Mary Poppins. And you still haven't proven why it's a bad idea based on say it's technical aspects or why is would not fit the "special effects extravaganza!" nature of the show, so all this talk from you is crap.
Upgrade117
Member
And no where did I say that it forever should stay as it is.
I simply said "animated villains" because that's exactly what all of the ones featured are.. And animated classics because that's what the ones listed were. I didn't mean to imply that this is what was used in the quotation.
Thank you, but no I do not believe a classic is whatever Disney says it is. I might agree with them, but I whatever Disney will call a classic will not always be what I call a classic. I'm sure you know much more about what I believe in than what I do, though..
A classic is a movie in which can retain its popularity throughout a great measurement of time, and can continue to reach out to an audience to give a special message, idea, or sense of great feeling.
If compare this to one of the popular animated movies Disney has made, you will never see that, over a large crowd, 20K would be more popular than the animated "classic."
Everyone has their own sense of what great movies are and can basically determine for themselves what a classic is. Nothing is set in stone with that.
However, for an ordinary crowd at Disney watching Fantasmic, more people would be able to recognize a animated "classic" (again, popular one..) than they would 20K. I'd love to replace Pocahontas with something better.. But in my opinion (which is what this whole discussion comes down to, opinion), having a random live-action movie segment in the middle of a show that is currently devoted to Disney animation would be odd.
Exactly, it all comes down to opinion..
The ending boat sequence is a short compilation of lots of the more famous Disney characters, and doesn't have anything to do with the actual plot of the show.. so I don't understand what having Mary Poppins on a boat with 50 other animated characters has to do with anything, other than to say "she's in it!"
Of course it would fit a special effects extravaganza.. still doesn't mean it fits this special effects extravaganza, atleast currently..
techiegsy
Member
Funny you mention this... I do have quite a few ideas (By that I mean I've thought how I'd do it... :lol
Right, Well... in this version...
- The Lighting towers would have a laser attached on the middle, using mirrors to reach the top.
- The stage would now also have projectors covering the rockwork, to help prevent the overuse of the water screens and to allow backgrounds for certain scenes.
- The sword in the stone rock would be removed and then a new rock like the sorcer Mickey scene, this would use a hydralic system to allow it to lift and lower. i.e. at an angle or flat. This would be surrounded by water fountains and effects.
- A new rear pyro row would be created behind the river (In the current backstage parking lot?) and the montain would also get a new pyro row along it's edges.
- Steamboat Mickey would be changed... A new set of whistles would be added to the top and sing along (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEaT_UQnVM) The centre of the boat would become a "Drop platform" and as Mickey finishes his trip around the lake he would disappear in a large bang and appear at the top...
- Cernabog would become a very (but not larger than the dragon) large AA or puppet which would appear to one side of the mountain
- Ursula would become a puppet and would have large tentacles streaching over the stage.
- I'm not sure if this even possible... But I would love to see a new rise for Maleficent, one with a different centre, this would then drop when she transforms. leaving her dress covering the pole left over... this pole would then lower as maleficent goes down...
- Another piece of possibly impossible technology... intead of the dragon appearing from the centre the dragon would appear from beheind the mountain and over the top, as seen in alot of promotional work, this dragon would be much larger and would protude quite far from the back with wings to either side.
- The new Fire effects used in "World of Colour" would be employed as well as the new fountains.
- The layout of fountains would be changed, allowing for a ring of dancing fountains and moving fountains.
All this allows for less use of the water screens (which seems to be what I seem to spend the most time looking at). So instead of Sorcerer Mickey appearing on the screens he is now acted out on the rock area where he could conduct the fountains, Mickey would be transformed as he steps through the water to the rock (As Mickey nears the rock water shoots up all around the lagoon, and the mickey runs through a small hole in the water as sorcerer. In the final scenes Cernabog would rise up (Visibly) onstage hunched up and then spread out his wings, with fire effects aroun him and the the ghosts would burst from below him (Fired from the rock outward on strings) and Ursurla would then catch the ghosts (as the water screens would be up projectinf various effects and we would flash to ursurla who would do a short rendition of her song the move on to Jafar's snake which would weave on stage (with ursurla and Cernabog still visable) and as all three villains look imposing toward mickey he would fight them off and they would be warded off before Maleificent appears and does her worst.
I would also replace the Pocahontos scene, the bubbles sequence (possibly back to the elephants - in which case I would place several elephant heads that would pop up around stage) and have a bit more real action in the Lion King, possibly a large animal tower.
Well thats just some of my ideas, enjoy!
Right, Well... in this version...
- The Lighting towers would have a laser attached on the middle, using mirrors to reach the top.
- The stage would now also have projectors covering the rockwork, to help prevent the overuse of the water screens and to allow backgrounds for certain scenes.
- The sword in the stone rock would be removed and then a new rock like the sorcer Mickey scene, this would use a hydralic system to allow it to lift and lower. i.e. at an angle or flat. This would be surrounded by water fountains and effects.
- A new rear pyro row would be created behind the river (In the current backstage parking lot?) and the montain would also get a new pyro row along it's edges.
- Steamboat Mickey would be changed... A new set of whistles would be added to the top and sing along (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEaT_UQnVM) The centre of the boat would become a "Drop platform" and as Mickey finishes his trip around the lake he would disappear in a large bang and appear at the top...
- Cernabog would become a very (but not larger than the dragon) large AA or puppet which would appear to one side of the mountain
- Ursula would become a puppet and would have large tentacles streaching over the stage.
- I'm not sure if this even possible... But I would love to see a new rise for Maleficent, one with a different centre, this would then drop when she transforms. leaving her dress covering the pole left over... this pole would then lower as maleficent goes down...
- Another piece of possibly impossible technology... intead of the dragon appearing from the centre the dragon would appear from beheind the mountain and over the top, as seen in alot of promotional work, this dragon would be much larger and would protude quite far from the back with wings to either side.
- The new Fire effects used in "World of Colour" would be employed as well as the new fountains.
- The layout of fountains would be changed, allowing for a ring of dancing fountains and moving fountains.
All this allows for less use of the water screens (which seems to be what I seem to spend the most time looking at). So instead of Sorcerer Mickey appearing on the screens he is now acted out on the rock area where he could conduct the fountains, Mickey would be transformed as he steps through the water to the rock (As Mickey nears the rock water shoots up all around the lagoon, and the mickey runs through a small hole in the water as sorcerer. In the final scenes Cernabog would rise up (Visibly) onstage hunched up and then spread out his wings, with fire effects aroun him and the the ghosts would burst from below him (Fired from the rock outward on strings) and Ursurla would then catch the ghosts (as the water screens would be up projectinf various effects and we would flash to ursurla who would do a short rendition of her song the move on to Jafar's snake which would weave on stage (with ursurla and Cernabog still visable) and as all three villains look imposing toward mickey he would fight them off and they would be warded off before Maleificent appears and does her worst.
I would also replace the Pocahontos scene, the bubbles sequence (possibly back to the elephants - in which case I would place several elephant heads that would pop up around stage) and have a bit more real action in the Lion King, possibly a large animal tower.
Well thats just some of my ideas, enjoy!
sublimesting
Well-Known Member
Pocahontas sticks out lick a smashed middle fingernail, which I currently have.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Funny you mention this... I do have quite a few ideas (By that I mean I've thought how I'd do it... :lol
Right, Well... in this version...
- The Lighting towers would have a laser attached on the middle, using mirrors to reach the top.
- The stage would now also have projectors covering the rockwork, to help prevent the overuse of the water screens and to allow backgrounds for certain scenes.
- The sword in the stone rock would be removed and then a new rock like the sorcer Mickey scene, this would use a hydralic system to allow it to lift and lower. i.e. at an angle or flat. This would be surrounded by water fountains and effects.
- A new rear pyro row would be created behind the river (In the current backstage parking lot?) and the montain would also get a new pyro row along it's edges.
- Steamboat Mickey would be changed... A new set of whistles would be added to the top and sing along (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEEaT_UQnVM) The centre of the boat would become a "Drop platform" and as Mickey finishes his trip around the lake he would disappear in a large bang and appear at the top...
- Cernabog would become a very (but not larger than the dragon) large AA or puppet which would appear to one side of the mountain
- Ursula would become a puppet and would have large tentacles streaching over the stage.
- I'm not sure if this even possible... But I would love to see a new rise for Maleficent, one with a different centre, this would then drop when she transforms. leaving her dress covering the pole left over... this pole would then lower as maleficent goes down...
- Another piece of possibly impossible technology... intead of the dragon appearing from the centre the dragon would appear from beheind the mountain and over the top, as seen in alot of promotional work, this dragon would be much larger and would protude quite far from the back with wings to either side.
- The new Fire effects used in "World of Colour" would be employed as well as the new fountains.
- The layout of fountains would be changed, allowing for a ring of dancing fountains and moving fountains.
All this allows for less use of the water screens (which seems to be what I seem to spend the most time looking at). So instead of Sorcerer Mickey appearing on the screens he is now acted out on the rock area where he could conduct the fountains, Mickey would be transformed as he steps through the water to the rock (As Mickey nears the rock water shoots up all around the lagoon, and the mickey runs through a small hole in the water as sorcerer. In the final scenes Cernabog would rise up (Visibly) onstage hunched up and then spread out his wings, with fire effects aroun him and the the ghosts would burst from below him (Fired from the rock outward on strings) and Ursurla would then catch the ghosts (as the water screens would be up projectinf various effects and we would flash to ursurla who would do a short rendition of her song the move on to Jafar's snake which would weave on stage (with ursurla and Cernabog still visable) and as all three villains look imposing toward mickey he would fight them off and they would be warded off before Maleificent appears and does her worst.
I would also replace the Pocahontos scene, the bubbles sequence (possibly back to the elephants - in which case I would place several elephant heads that would pop up around stage) and have a bit more real action in the Lion King, possibly a large animal tower.
Well thats just some of my ideas, enjoy!
I actually think most of your fountain and lighting idea will be used in WoC.
And here's another thing I want added: MORE PYRO!:lol: Make the ending a show...not just a few pieces going off. Mums would work well in the background.