What Would You Ban?

[thomas998]

I didn't miss your point...I just totally disagree that not having Fast Pass would make it the same because the ride capacity doesn't change.

It doesn't create more ride capacity...I'm not arguing that. It still optimizes your time so you can ride 3 rides (plus more after the 3) at essentially any time you chose, in advance.

You can still wait in the regular line during EMH, early in the morning, during parades/fireworks, and at other strategic times. I don't think you can make a solid argument that the time you spend waiting in line is more with Fast Pass than without.

The reality is the parks ARE more crowded than they ever were. Look at the attendance. It goes up every year and the most recent report confirms attendance is at an all time high. Accordingly, if the parks seem more crowded, it's because they are and Disney has allowed a lot of areas to die, particularly at EPCOT and DHS, putting more pressure on MK.

Even with Fast Pass, especially at top rides, people still wait in the regular queue. Pull up the app right now and look at the wait times for Splash, Space, Thunder, Soarin', TSMM, and RnR. I don't agree that people have been pushed from the queues into the park. What you're seeing is the the increase in crowds and the effect of not having the parks fully operational.

Reality is a line for a ride with fastpass moves slower than one that doesn't have fastpass... The people in line that would have been out in 30 minutes are not out in 40... it doesn't increase the number of people in line I agree with that...

You can ride 3 rides at a predetermined time, yes... So the time that you would have been standing in line for those 3 rides is time spent somewhere else. Even if that time you would have spent in line for Thunder Mountain is spent in line somewhere else with no fastpass the result is you are now clogging a line somewhere else or clogging the park while you rush to or from your fastpass ride. You gained nothing from the fastpass beyond making the lines for non-fastpass rides longer and the regular lines for fastpass rides move slower... Nothing was gained beyond having you spend more time outside of the previous long fastpass rides regular line.

Now maybe its just me but the regular line queue for a fastpass ride usually offers more visually than the queue for non-fastpass rides... So maybe even if the net rides are even both ways, the fastpass put you in inferior queues for a longer amount of time.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Reality is a line for a ride with fastpass moves slower than one that doesn't have fastpass... The people in line that would have been out in 30 minutes are not out in 40... it doesn't increase the number of people in line I agree with that...

You can ride 3 rides at a predetermined time, yes... So the time that you would have been standing in line for those 3 rides is time spent somewhere else. Even if that time you would have spent in line for Thunder Mountain is spent in line somewhere else with no fastpass the result is you are now clogging a line somewhere else or clogging the park while you rush to or from your fastpass ride. You gained nothing from the fastpass beyond making the lines for non-fastpass rides longer and the regular lines for fastpass rides move slower... Nothing was gained beyond having you spend more time outside of the previous long fastpass rides regular line.

Now maybe its just me but the regular line queue for a fastpass ride usually offers more visually than the queue for non-fastpass rides... So maybe even if the net rides are even both ways, the fastpass put you in inferior queues for a longer amount of time.

I value the time I save in a Fast Pass line. I don't agree that after a Fast Pass, you then automatically "waste" the time you save standing in another line. I think experienced guests can easily use the time they save in a more productive way than waiting 60-80 minutes for Splash Mountain, which was VERY common pre-Fast Pass. If I can get on Splash Mountain more quickly, I can go ride Haunted Mansion, Pirates, TTA, or other crowd eaters with a no longer wait than I ever remember and I've been going for 30 years, multiple times per year.

Granted, I go during "less crowded" times, meaning NOT dead summer, spring break, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. I still think saying you "gained nothing" from jumping right on your reserved attraction is way too simplistic to be correct. You gained the time back and proper management allows you to do more with more people in the park.

In a week, I ride HM at least 8-10 times and do everything I want to do, very easily. The Fast Pass for me has just made it even easier to cover more ground. I hated it at first, but it does optimize time.

I've been saying for years that the "common areas" are WAY overcrowded and this is perhaps due to the phenomenon you're trying to explain. People are "done" with the rides quicker and they flock to common areas, making it feel more crowded. However, I think this is more of an issue with the parks becoming more crowded than the fault of Fast Pass.

I also completely understand Fast Pass was not designed as solely a guest benefit. Disney does benefit from it first and foremost and it has been marketed as a Guest Benefit - it's not.

 

[Victor Kelly]

Just from the first two pages I bothered to read, ban everything and everyone. Solves the issue. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't flash, don't walk slow, don't stop, don't have a large group, don't have an ECV....bla bla bla bla bla.

Don't like stuff, don't go. Now the people saying ban negativity, they are spot on. But so far, this whole thread has been negative, and I am surprised it is still open.

 

[sean4066]

I'm not a smoker. Can't stand it. But,All I ask is that smokers would do a better job of staying in the designated areas to smoke I have kids with asthma and it really effects them badly.
All the people that complain about strollers make me laugh. I do get it though some of those "stroller people" lol are dangerous but to ban them that's nuts. Don't forget Disney is supposed to be about kids not the adults. But again if people pushing these very large strollers need to have respect. Same as the "electric vehicle people" loads of them have zero respect drive through large crowds cut people off stop suddenly in the middle of the walkway. The truth is probably a third of all those using ev's don't really need them. But I have no idea how you police that. The only thing I would truly ban is the chanting. Not really sure why they need to do that it's rude,disrespectful and pointless. Oh and the waving of their countries flag everywhere we get it by your shirt where your from. Enough. Sorry just my rant. Lol

 

[jloucks]

Fast Pass probably causes more problems than anxiety it cures. The bottom line is that any ride has a limited number of visitors that it can provide capacity to on any given day. Whether you have Fast Pass or not you only get so many people on a Thunder Mountain train, and only a certain number of train circuits can happen in any day. All the Fast Pass has done is given people the false sense that they are do more things now than they would have without a Fast Pass... But for Disney they see another more nefarious thing with the Fast Pass... In a queue to a ride there isn't any visitor looking at cheap merchandise, so they want as few people as possible in those queues and as many as possible walking past cheap merchandise so they can try to sell more of it... Remember the rides don't make them any more revenue once you entered the park, they got their ticket money now the only thing they can do for more money is get you to buy something and buying will be much more likely if you are walking around the park than it will if you are standing in line.

I honestly don't think you'll be riding more rides today with fastpass than you would have years before when it didn't exist... you'll just think you are.

The new secret paradigm here seems to be getting away from 'all your can ride' which has been around since Six Flags started it, to 'ride favorite things once'. Too many people in the park not to have fast pass. Honestly, at this point they should just go back to pay-as-you-ride if they are not willing to increase park admission price to a level that will thin out 10-20% of the crowds.

If you have not been in the last few years, it is really brutal. Almost comical.

 

[jloucks]

I have no idea how you police that.

That's easy, same way you manage who gets a handicapped license plates. Time for people to start proving they deserve their special privileges over me. Sorry, but I'm just not ok taking your word for it.

...well, ok, unless it is obvious. 1/8 of the time it is. 1/2 the time if in a wheelchair. I have no bone-to-pick if you are legally handicapped.

Actually, now that I am thinking about it, I don't have a problem with wheelchairs ever. It is when you start adding lights, batteries, drivetrains, obesity, and line cutting I start to have a problem.

 

[Horizons78]

So...this happened:

...7) all handicap parking (sorry but in my park you have no scooter so that means you're going to be walking and if you can't walk from your car to the transport tram why in the world are here in the first place.... Oh that's right because in most cases the handicapped person isn't even there its just their hang tag that someone decided to borrow so they could park closer)...

And then in response, this happened:

...#7 - I have always wondered about that. Why have handicapped parking at a walking destination? It's like handicapped parking at a trail head...

I've been around long enough to know a response of this type isn't worth my time, and in actuality I've found a fun spot in this community by just sitting back, reading the forums, and occasionally popping in with an attempt at humor - an attempt to give somebody else a laugh. But every great once in awhile, something jerks my chain distractingly enough that I can't help but respond. Since @thomas998 decided to share, and with @jloucks having some confusion apparently, I felt maybe I could add to the discussion, and perhaps clarify things.

So without further delay, I'd like you to meet my Mom...Rosalie:

She's the one in yellow, in the wheelchair, along with my Aunt, both of them lovely people.

I have my Mother and Father to thank for my interest and love of Disney World in the first place. I cherish the collection of memories from when I was a child and they would take me to the parks. Great times, the kind of memories that you just can't put a price on. My Mom spent her life taking care of people - family, friends, if she saw a need she would jump in hoping to fill it. And in some part, that led to her being in the chair. After a particularly grueling sequence of events one year that involved the passing of my grandmother on my dad's side, followed by the passing of my grandfather on my mom's side (In both cases my mom was a caregiver right to the end), and my grandmother on my mom's side being diagnosed with Alzheimer's...my Mom had a massive stroke. Her left side never did come back. 1997 was a brutal year.

Amongst the many things that changed for her was her own view of self image. Perhaps it's a generational thing, perhaps not, but while certainly still comfortable in the company of friends and family, being in public became a burden for her. She can't use an ECV, and frankly I think even if she could she wouldn't want to - doesn't want anybody to have to make a fuss just for her. That extends even to not wanting to have to have someone be burdened with pushing the chair. It's no surprise then that since 97 my mom had been to disney exactly once. You might imagine my happiness when for this year's F&G Epcot festival she said she'd be willing and interested in going.

I had the honor, and yes that's exactly the correct word, of taking care of transportation as well as pushing the chair for the day. And I'll tell you something - for the smiles, and the laughs, and the good memories that happened on that trip, I'd push that damned chair up a mountain and I would smile all the way. I'll admit that at the end of the day though, it was nice to have parking that made the walk to the car just a bit shorter and enough room between vehicles to be able to have space for someone on either side of the chair during transfer.

To the point at hand...I hope you're both just trolls, because then you see, I'd get that. I'd understand that that's a thing. And it would be whatever - especially in a thread that is more garbage than anything of value. But to the possibility that you really do think there's no need for people who "cant walk from the car to a tram" to be at WDW, or that you can't understand handicap parking at a "walking destination" well, if that's not an act, maybe now you do get it. Perhaps not. Either way, I hope you or someone you love is never touched by something that turns your world upside down.

I'm not looking for a fight, and I'll happily slink back into the digital woodwork, appearing next time with an attempt at a joke, or funny picture...my usual routine.

But for this single post...in a thread that's run its course...I thought someone should provide a voice of dissent.

 

[thomas998]

I value the time I save in a Fast Pass line. I don't agree that after a Fast Pass, you then automatically "waste" the time you save standing in another line. I think experienced guests can easily use the time they save in a more productive way than waiting 60-80 minutes for Splash Mountain, which was VERY common pre-Fast Pass. If I can get on Splash Mountain more quickly, I can go ride Haunted Mansion, Pirates, TTA, or other crowd eaters with a no longer wait than I ever remember and I've been going for 30 years, multiple times per year.

Granted, I go during "less crowded" times, meaning NOT dead summer, spring break, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. I still think saying you "gained nothing" from jumping right on your reserved attraction is way too simplistic to be correct. You gained the time back and proper management allows you to do more with more people in the park.

In a week, I ride HM at least 8-10 times and do everything I want to do, very easily. The Fast Pass for me has just made it even easier to cover more ground. I hated it at first, but it does optimize time.

I've been saying for years that the "common areas" are WAY overcrowded and this is perhaps due to the phenomenon you're trying to explain. People are "done" with the rides quicker and they flock to common areas, making it feel more crowded. However, I think this is more of an issue with the parks becoming more crowded than the fault of Fast Pass.

I also completely understand Fast Pass was not designed as solely a guest benefit. Disney does benefit from it first and foremost and it has been marketed as a Guest Benefit - it's not.

The new secret paradigm here seems to be getting away from 'all your can ride' which has been around since Six Flags started it, to 'ride favorite things once'. Too many people in the park not to have fast pass. Honestly, at this point they should just go back to pay-as-you-ride if they are not willing to increase park admission price to a level that will thin out 10-20% of the crowds.

If you have not been in the last few years, it is really brutal. Almost comical.

Agreed... Maybe even a return to the old A thru E ticket scheme would be an improvement.

Although I suspect the next step will only be to create a next level of Fastpass that will cost money but allow more rides to be selected.

Frankly I'm surprised they even have standby lines for some of the ride now, they could just make certain rides fastpass only as I don't see how anyone can justify the wait times over 2 hours that things like the mine train can now have... Fortunately after waiting in line for almost 3 hours for those blasted Frozen princesses my kids have now started looking at the line times and if its an hour they will refuse to do it no matter which ride it is.

 

[thomas998]

So...this happened:

And then in response, this happened:

I've been around long enough to know a response of this type isn't worth my time, and in actuality I've found a fun spot in this community by just sitting back, reading the forums, and occasionally popping in with an attempt at humor - an attempt to give somebody else a laugh. But every great once in awhile, something jerks my chain distractingly enough that I can't help but respond. Since @thomas998 decided to share, and with @jloucks having some confusion apparently, I felt maybe I could add to the discussion, and perhaps clarify things.

So without further delay, I'd like you to meet my Mom...Rosalie:

She's the one in yellow, in the wheelchair, along with my Aunt, both of them lovely people.

I have my Mother and Father to thank for my interest and love of Disney World in the first place. I cherish the collection of memories from when I was a child and they would take me to the parks. Great times, the kind of memories that you just can't put a price on. My Mom spent her life taking care of people - family, friends, if she saw a need she would jump in hoping to fill it. And in some part, that led to her being in the chair. After a particularly grueling sequence of events one year that involved the passing of my grandmother on my dad's side, followed by the passing of my grandfather on my mom's side (In both cases my mom was a caregiver right to the end), and my grandmother on my mom's side being diagnosed with Alzheimer's...my Mom had a massive stroke. Her left side never did come back. 1997 was a brutal year.

Amongst the many things that changed for her was her own view of self image. Perhaps it's a generational thing, perhaps not, but while certainly still comfortable in the company of friends and family, being in public became a burden for her. She can't use an ECV, and frankly I think even if she could she wouldn't want to - doesn't want anybody to have to make a fuss just for her. That extends even to not wanting to have to have someone be burdened with pushing the chair. It's no surprise then that since 97 my mom had been to disney exactly once. You might imagine my happiness when for this year's F&G Epcot festival she said she'd be willing and interested in going.

I had the honor, and yes that's exactly the correct word, of taking care of transportation as well as pushing the chair for the day. And I'll tell you something - for the smiles, and the laughs, and the good memories that happened on that trip, I'd push that damned chair up a mountain and I would smile all the way. I'll admit that at the end of the day though, it was nice to have parking that made the walk to the car just a bit shorter and enough room between vehicles to be able to have space for someone on either side of the chair during transfer.

To the point at hand...I hope you're both just trolls, because then you see, I'd get that. I'd understand that that's a thing. And it would be whatever - especially in a thread that is more garbage than anything of value. But to the possibility that you really do think there's no need for people who "cant walk from the car to a tram" to be at WDW, or that you can't understand handicap parking at a "walking destination" well, if that's not an act, maybe now you do get it. Perhaps not. Either way, I hope you or someone you love is never touched by something that turns your world upside down.

I'm not looking for a fight, and I'll happily slink back into the digital woodwork, appearing next time with an attempt at a joke, or funny picture...my usual routine.

But for this single post...in a thread that's run its course...I thought someone should provide a voice of dissent.

Not reading what people post now are you. Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, and instead decided that I meant something other than what I said... Sorry but I was very precise.

Since you yourself state your mother wouldn't use a scooter that part of my post was irrelevant... Since you then state that you would be pushing her to the car that would also be irrelevant because I was very clear in stating my objection to the people that are clearly not handicapped and are simply using handicapped hang tags to snag closer parking.

Now, allow me to give you some advice that will help you with your mother in the future... Drop her off at the gate and then go park your car, then you don't have to push any wheelchair from the parking lot or worry with trying to get it on a tram. Mom and whoever wants to stay there with her can then easily exit near the area where buses drop people off and you can then go park your car anywhere in the parking lot... and when the day is done she goes back to that same area and you bring your car up to pick her up... it is a much better option than using handicapped spaces... because unlike the local mall where a handicapped space provides access a few feet away the handicapped lot is a bit of trek.

Now if you want to go back and believe that everyone that doesn't share your view is a troll, fell free. But I've found in general the folks that like to call people trolls are really just doing it because they don't want to accept that people can have different opinions than their own.

 

[WillCAD]

Fast Pass probably causes more problems than anxiety it cures. The bottom line is that any ride has a limited number of visitors that it can provide capacity to on any given day. Whether you have Fast Pass or not you only get so many people on a Thunder Mountain train, and only a certain number of train circuits can happen in any day. All the Fast Pass has done is given people the false sense that they are do more things now than they would have without a Fast Pass... But for Disney they see another more nefarious thing with the Fast Pass... In a queue to a ride there isn't any visitor looking at cheap merchandise, so they want as few people as possible in those queues and as many as possible walking past cheap merchandise so they can try to sell more of it... Remember the rides don't make them any more revenue once you entered the park, they got their ticket money now the only thing they can do for more money is get you to buy something and buying will be much more likely if you are walking around the park than it will if you are standing in line.

I honestly don't think you'll be riding more rides today with fastpass than you would have years before when it didn't exist... you'll just think you are.

You're absolutely right. I'm not riding any more rides today than I did in the pre-FP days. I average about one attraction per hour - sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, depending on the park, time of day, day of week, week of year, the weather, park hours, and my own mood - and in the pre-FP days I also averaged about one per hour.

However, today I wait 20 minutes or less in the FP queue for 3 of the 8-10 attractions I visit, saving me roughly 3 hours per day of standing in a line. The FP for Soarin' alone has saved me at least 40 hours since the attraction opened in 2005, probably more since I ride it multiple times per trip.

So, yeah, I don't get more from Column A with FastPass, but I get ALL of Column B. With a 3-hour queue, I'm totally screwed - but I ain't never had a friend like FP.

Just from the first two pages I bothered to read, ban everything and everyone. Solves the issue. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't flash, don't walk slow, don't stop, don't have a large group, don't have an ECV....bla bla bla bla bla.

Don't like stuff, don't go. Now the people saying ban negativity, they are spot on. But so far, this whole thread has been negative, and I am surprised it is still open.

Um... to be perfectly honest, there are actually a certain limited number of people with whom I would have absolutely no problem if they flashed me.

 

[Hakunamatata]

So...this happened:

And then in response, this happened:

I've been around long enough to know a response of this type isn't worth my time, and in actuality I've found a fun spot in this community by just sitting back, reading the forums, and occasionally popping in with an attempt at humor - an attempt to give somebody else a laugh. But every great once in awhile, something jerks my chain distractingly enough that I can't help but respond. Since @thomas998 decided to share, and with @jloucks having some confusion apparently, I felt maybe I could add to the discussion, and perhaps clarify things.

So without further delay, I'd like you to meet my Mom...Rosalie:

She's the one in yellow, in the wheelchair, along with my Aunt, both of them lovely people.

I have my Mother and Father to thank for my interest and love of Disney World in the first place. I cherish the collection of memories from when I was a child and they would take me to the parks. Great times, the kind of memories that you just can't put a price on. My Mom spent her life taking care of people - family, friends, if she saw a need she would jump in hoping to fill it. And in some part, that led to her being in the chair. After a particularly grueling sequence of events one year that involved the passing of my grandmother on my dad's side, followed by the passing of my grandfather on my mom's side (In both cases my mom was a caregiver right to the end), and my grandmother on my mom's side being diagnosed with Alzheimer's...my Mom had a massive stroke. Her left side never did come back. 1997 was a brutal year.

Amongst the many things that changed for her was her own view of self image. Perhaps it's a generational thing, perhaps not, but while certainly still comfortable in the company of friends and family, being in public became a burden for her. She can't use an ECV, and frankly I think even if she could she wouldn't want to - doesn't want anybody to have to make a fuss just for her. That extends even to not wanting to have to have someone be burdened with pushing the chair. It's no surprise then that since 97 my mom had been to disney exactly once. You might imagine my happiness when for this year's F&G Epcot festival she said she'd be willing and interested in going.

I had the honor, and yes that's exactly the correct word, of taking care of transportation as well as pushing the chair for the day. And I'll tell you something - for the smiles, and the laughs, and the good memories that happened on that trip, I'd push that damned chair up a mountain and I would smile all the way. I'll admit that at the end of the day though, it was nice to have parking that made the walk to the car just a bit shorter and enough room between vehicles to be able to have space for someone on either side of the chair during transfer.

To the point at hand...I hope you're both just trolls, because then you see, I'd get that. I'd understand that that's a thing. And it would be whatever - especially in a thread that is more garbage than anything of value. But to the possibility that you really do think there's no need for people who "cant walk from the car to a tram" to be at WDW, or that you can't understand handicap parking at a "walking destination" well, if that's not an act, maybe now you do get it. Perhaps not. Either way, I hope you or someone you love is never touched by something that turns your world upside down.

I'm not looking for a fight, and I'll happily slink back into the digital woodwork, appearing next time with an attempt at a joke, or funny picture...my usual routine.

But for this single post...in a thread that's run its course...I thought someone should provide a voice of dissent.

Thank you for dropping a bit of reality into a couple of individuals who desperately needed a dose of it.

 

[sshindel]

Not reading what people post now are you. Clearly you didn't read what I wrote, and instead decided that I meant something other than what I said... Sorry but I was very precise.

Since you yourself state your mother wouldn't use a scooter that part of my post was irrelevant... Since you then state that you would be pushing her to the car that would also be irrelevant because I was very clear in stating my objection to the people that are clearly not handicapped and are simply using handicapped hang tags to snag closer parking.

No, I think you need to go back and read what you wrote. You stated that you would ban all handicap parking. You did not state that you would police handicap parking to find people misusing handicap tags (and that is more complex than you think, as all handicaps are not equal, physical and mental disabilities are not always obvious to the minimum wage paid parking staff). You said you would ban handicap parking because people who can't walk don't deserve to be in the park.

Now, allow me to give you some advice that will help you with your mother in the future... Drop her off at the gate and then go park your car, then you don't have to push any wheelchair from the parking lot or worry with trying to get it on a tram. Mom and whoever wants to stay there with her can then easily exit near the area where buses drop people off and you can then go park your car anywhere in the parking lot... and when the day is done she goes back to that same area and you bring your car up to pick her up... it is a much better option than using handicapped spaces... because unlike the local mall where a handicapped space provides access a few feet away the handicapped lot is a bit of trek.

What if a single parent wants to take their handicapped child. Should they just drop junior off at the front gate and have them hang out by themselves? Also, why should someone have to drop off a disabled person in order to park? Should Disney be less progressive than every shopping mall in America when it comes to treating disabled people with respect?

Now if you want to go back and believe that everyone that doesn't share your view is a troll, fell free. But I've found in general the folks that like to call people trolls are really just doing it because they don't want to accept that people can have different opinions than their own.

Well, it answers the question. you are not a troll, just an a******.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I would ban hitchhiking ghosts!

 

[sheriffwoody]

@Horizons78 well...you tried. Some people just have no empathy whatsoever. Thanks for sharing your mom's story with us. Glad you got to enjoy that trip with her.

 

[Miss Heinous]

Never mind, you are 15.... Get

It's illegal for adults drink in front of your family? News clash to me.... Are you 12 or something?

Oh dear those typos are concerning... Have you been in the bottle recently?

 

[thomas998]

No, I think you need to go back and read what you wrote. You stated that you would ban all handicap parking. You did not state that you would police handicap parking to find people misusing handicap tags (and that is more complex than you think, as all handicaps are not equal, physical and mental disabilities are not always obvious to the minimum wage paid parking staff). You said you would ban handicap parking because people who can't walk don't deserve to be in the park.


What if a single parent wants to take their handicapped child. Should they just drop junior off at the front gate and have them hang out by themselves? Also, why should someone have to drop off a disabled person in order to park? Should Disney be less progressive than every shopping mall in America when it comes to treating disabled people with respect?


Well, it answers the question. you are not a troll, just an a******.

might want to look at the rules of the board... name calling is a no no... you've done it twice already

 

[sshindel]

might want to look at the rules of the board... name calling is a no no... you've done it twice already

I alerted the mods to my breaking of the ToS. I try hard to not break the rules, but sometimes it's worth it.

 

[unkadug]

might want to look at the rules of the board... name calling is a no no... you've done it twice already

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck...must be a duck.

 

[graphite1326]

TALL people-- someone actually said- ban tall people.

I think we should also ban people with big feet, don't you? Diabetics? How about people with aggressive hair loss while we're at it?

Or princesses with tails, wooden boys with long noses,.....anyone with large prominent ears...............

No I go along with tall people. Especially the ones that insist on standing in front so ne else can see. AND it seems o happen a lot. For example, we were watching the fireworks at EPCOT. There was a large group of young children sitting in front of the rail near Norway. There were a few adults mixed in . When the show started one doofus guy stands front and center in front of everyone and records the entire show. I wished I had a way of recording it so I could have put it on youtube and made a fool of the guy.

The rest of your comment well that's just silly.

 

[graphite1326]

I alerted the mods to my breaking of the ToS. I try hard to not break the rules, but sometimes it's worth it.

I've had a few run ins with you myself.