JustInTime
Well-Known Member
See? They are doing you a favor.
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What has happened to the place we (used to) love?
- Thread starter TQQQ
- Start date
I do not Pity the fool that willingly does that.
V_L_Raptor
Well-Known Member
Theme parks themselves have a rabid fandom. No matter what a theme park does, it's a theme park, so it's wonderful, and why can't we all just smile and enjoy it, because it's a theme park? Theme parks have feelings, too!
It's not just the "Disney adults," although many are. It's not just the folks that claim personal connections on a first-name basis with the orcas at SeaWorld, though some do. It's not just the folks who can have long philosophical conversations with the Grinch that they upload to YouTube, although some may. It's not just the ones who hang on with bated breath for every single roller coaster announcement Busch Gardens works up (and I had an inordinate amount of difficulty coming up with something for Busch Gardens, yeesh), although this group might overlap with some others. No, there are folks out there who live for everything a theme park represents, and they'll defend what is done in the name of running a theme park to the point of absurdity, because it's a theme park, can't we all see? Theme parks hold off depression, anxiety, and the ravages of... well, reality. Mm-hmm.
So long as they can scrape together the coin to visit a theme park at all, theme park apologists will go on at length about how wonderful all theme parks are. Corporations don't exist in any concrete or repulsive sense, because theme parks are all about fun and wonder. Got that? Fun and wonder! How can anything so bad make something so full of fun and wonder?
Chi84
Premium Member
So the problem is theme parks in general? What about other things in life that cause fun?
V_L_Raptor
Well-Known Member
I'd pin it on the preponderance of Fun and Wonder(TM), yes. Where would civilization be if we couldn't gather in the culture hearths that are attraction queues and QSR's? And yes, it's very unfortunate that half of a park could exist as a series of construction walls with admission at full price for an extended period of time, but it's really just an opportunity for greater spiritual growth to enjoy the oncoming Fun and Wonder(TM).
Chi84
Premium Member
So we should find sources of enjoyment other than theme parks?
V_L_Raptor
Well-Known Member
Well, it's like this. If you're one of the people who sees theme parks and how we interact with theme parks as being one in the same -- just one giant, glittery chewing gum wad of Fun and Wonder(TM) from a super special gumball rally -- you would be largely illustrating my point. The original note I was responding to was the notion of people downvoting those speaking negatively of Disney rather than speaking negatively of the corporation. So long as a theme park is regarded as some kind of benevolent largesse, that uncritical fandom will remain toxic. (And it has been, for quite some time.)
There's all kind of ways to get enjoyment out in the world, but so long as people's brains shut off at the first glimpse of Fun and Wonder(TM)... well, let's say the quality won't improve much.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
Spread the word. hopefully we can hit bob chapek and Disney right where it hurts the pocketbook. These idiots have been milking and shaming Walt Disneys name for too long.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I had an extensive response to that, but then I realized that if someone felt the need to take a personal statement about how I feel and make it a universal thought, then there was no reason to carry it on because overstatement is the name of your game. I will therefore assume that you feel differently about the situation.
Chi84
Premium Member
But this was the entire quote I was responding to. How on earth did you get the idea I was commenting on a personal statement about how you feel?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I don't know any other way of interpreting your question. (Bolded up top) I never said that others are feeling miserable, I said I was. Unless you think I'm speaking for everyone else I'm not sure how to understand that question. I do feel that there are others and they are not going anymore. I don't think I am alone in this feeling and then I went on to say that apparently you didn't feel the same way.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
You are not alone... We are cutting way back on our visits...Certainly won't be investing any more in any additional DVC...
mysto
Well-Known Member
Procrastination is apparently my #1 fun thing in life. I certainly spend more on it than Fun and Wonder (TM).
FullSailDan
Well-Known Member
It's funny because I don't think that statement is actually true. High wealth individuals know when something is worth what their paying. Disney doesn't even come close to meeting that thresholding in the parks, much less the hotels. Even the Grand Flo barely measures up to hotels I'd expect to be the same price point anywhere else. A night at the Carlyle in NYC would hands down beat it out. That's luxury, and a space Disney actually used to be semi-competitive in a few years back, when considering it's location and purpose. Nowadays, there is absolutely nothing luxury left. Less than Marriott service for 4 Seasons prices.
The last time I stayed at a Disney hotel (Yacht Club last year for a conference) everything was just annoying. The room was stale and dirty, the front desk was slow when I needed a room change (I booked concierge and they checked me into a second floor parking lot room). Housekeeping barely did anything, I couldn't get dinner in the hotel (room service was actually decent and had more than a burger!), getting anywhere took forever, there was absolutely nothing 'magical' about it, and I'm a huge Disney fan!
We vacation for a week or two about every quarter and the types of vacations we plan are just so much different now than when we were younger and spending time in the parks. Earlier this year we spent a month in Cabo on the beach in a house run by a boutique vacation company. We went scuba diving, jet-skiing, sea fishing (which I hate but had a blast), sunset boat cruises, tequila tasting, took cooking and painting classes, and had so many more experiences. We had a private chef cook our meals and plan our restaurant nights, had friends and family join for a few days at a time, and worked a day or two a week. Our rooms were cleaned daily with fresh linens and towels. They setup cabanas on the beach for us, served drinks and meals beachside, etc. We spent about as much on that trip as we would have spent on 5 days in world at a deluxe and definitely felt more fulfilled, created more memories, and I actually felt recharged when re-entering my routine. Everything about that trip was easy and the service was spectacular.
Point being, Disney may want the high-end buyer, but they aren't delivering a high-end experience. Many of those visiting the parks these days are not wealthy, they are splurging and going outside of their means to do so. I really think TWDC will find themselves in a spot soon where they've alienated their base and they audience their going for, because they can't deliver something either crowd actually wants.
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
^This is an excellent post. ^
Disney used to deliver what felt like a high end experience even for moderate level guests.
You felt like they cared about the guest experience from start to finish.
People used to rave about the way Disney did things.
As you stated, may people with money understand very well what they are getting, or should be getting for the money they spend.
They may not need value for the dollar anymore, but they certainly understand what they get for comparable expenditures in restaurants, and hotels.
epcotWSC
Well-Known Member
I started going to Disney regularly back in 2007 with my girlfriend (now wife) and her family. They had/have DVC we pretty much are there at least once per year. I remember joining this forum shortly after that (I guess 2008) and reading people talking about how the place was falling apart and losing the magic. Cheapening out on meals, new rides not being up to the standards of the old ones, Florida getting the worse version of everything, relying on IP rather than creating original ideas, less clean, less friendly, etc. As time went by, I started to see many of those very same things, however, I tended to think they were still a bit overblown considering that Disney was still providing an overall top notch experience. However, at this point, Disney seems to be working their best to make it a good experience at a premium price point rather than a phenomenal experience at a good price point. They're consistently pushing the market price increases, nickeling and diming, taking away perks, and other such things until the market finally says "enough!" Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet in spite of diehards starting to turn against the company.
Facts are, that the finance guys are going to keep cutting costs and increasing prices until they hit the sweet spot. Even if they lose customers, if the remaining customers make up the difference with the premium that they pay, they won't care. If restaurants drop from 10/10 to an 8/10, but people still dine there, then who cares? If they have a 25% decrease in attendance, but make more at the gate and in park purchases, who cares? This is how they operate.
Facts are, that the finance guys are going to keep cutting costs and increasing prices until they hit the sweet spot. Even if they lose customers, if the remaining customers make up the difference with the premium that they pay, they won't care. If restaurants drop from 10/10 to an 8/10, but people still dine there, then who cares? If they have a 25% decrease in attendance, but make more at the gate and in park purchases, who cares? This is how they operate.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
It seems like every time these types of discussions are had, it's presented as if it's a binary choice. Either you think Disney is wonderful and perfect and still as good as it's ever been, or you think that Disney is a worthless shell of its former self unworthy of giving any money. And Heaven help you if you're on the wrong side of that binary choice.
But thing is, it's not a binary choice. This isn't an election where you have to pick between two candidates. It is possible to think that Disney has fallen a great deal from what it once was, to see numerous things that need fixing or improvement, and to think the current leadership is headed in the wrong direction and also think that the product is still good enough to warrant your visiting and spending money there.
That is the camp I am in. I am disappointed with some of the things that have happened. And I wish there was different leadership at Disney. But I still like the product and am willing to pay for it. Maybe that will change someday. But that's where I am right now.
But thing is, it's not a binary choice. This isn't an election where you have to pick between two candidates. It is possible to think that Disney has fallen a great deal from what it once was, to see numerous things that need fixing or improvement, and to think the current leadership is headed in the wrong direction and also think that the product is still good enough to warrant your visiting and spending money there.
That is the camp I am in. I am disappointed with some of the things that have happened. And I wish there was different leadership at Disney. But I still like the product and am willing to pay for it. Maybe that will change someday. But that's where I am right now.
Disneyson
Well-Known Member
The way this manifests to me, at least, is that it turns my weeklong every-park-except-for-SeaWorld whirlwind into only the parks that are serving limited-time experiences that are worth something to me. I used to enjoy going to the parks for the high-quality service, the ease of travel, and the immersion into themed experiences.
With the app killing any time to enjoy the beauty of any park, the price not matching the product, and the decline of the experiences I love, most of the time I spend searching for ride times or being disappointed in upkeep. And I don’t want to subject my family to that.
My next planned vacation will likely be just two days at the Disney parks to see Enchantment and Harmonious before they go away (for the first time.) The other two parks have nothing to offer me. I’ll be able to hit up the two new rides at Epcot and see Splash one final time at MK, and that’ll probably tie me over until…
I dunno, when’s the next time a season-long parade or special event is happening? Frozen Days, Star Wars Weekends, some anniversary parade that truly will only last for 18 months? Superhero party in Tomorrowland, specialty evening entertainment for the summer? Or perhaps a new can’t-miss attraction? Maybe a show or parade running to promote a new film?
I’m a big spender on food and Merch, and you best believe I’m taking instagrams — so whether they believe me or not, Disney is leaving money on the table for me.
I used to scoff at people who did just-universal vacations. Now I’m becoming those people. Horror Nights puts out 10 limited-time “Journey of Water” caliber attractions EVERY YEAR. I will return to them every year.
Disney puts out a new parade every…. 10 years? More? I’m just saying. It is directly correlative.
I want to see Epic Universe while it’s fresh and shiny. Already did Tron in Shanghai, it’s short and absolutely not worth the cluster it will create on its opening year. No need to come for at least the next three years, then, according to D23’s announcements?
If only Disney viewed the parks in the same way they viewed Disney+. Offer something for everyone, and continue to switch it up every quarter. Create engaging seasonal content, and even if it isn’t all for me it creates a feeling that I’m not actively wasting my money. Create destination events that have meaningful expiration dates like Mandolorian spoiler fear day or Dancing with the Stars water cooler day. Invest in limited-time magic.
I’ve been waiting for these shows to be cancelled to justify a trip. After that, it looks like it’ll be a pretty long while before even small investments are made again.
With the app killing any time to enjoy the beauty of any park, the price not matching the product, and the decline of the experiences I love, most of the time I spend searching for ride times or being disappointed in upkeep. And I don’t want to subject my family to that.
My next planned vacation will likely be just two days at the Disney parks to see Enchantment and Harmonious before they go away (for the first time.) The other two parks have nothing to offer me. I’ll be able to hit up the two new rides at Epcot and see Splash one final time at MK, and that’ll probably tie me over until…
I dunno, when’s the next time a season-long parade or special event is happening? Frozen Days, Star Wars Weekends, some anniversary parade that truly will only last for 18 months? Superhero party in Tomorrowland, specialty evening entertainment for the summer? Or perhaps a new can’t-miss attraction? Maybe a show or parade running to promote a new film?
I’m a big spender on food and Merch, and you best believe I’m taking instagrams — so whether they believe me or not, Disney is leaving money on the table for me.
I used to scoff at people who did just-universal vacations. Now I’m becoming those people. Horror Nights puts out 10 limited-time “Journey of Water” caliber attractions EVERY YEAR. I will return to them every year.
Disney puts out a new parade every…. 10 years? More? I’m just saying. It is directly correlative.
I want to see Epic Universe while it’s fresh and shiny. Already did Tron in Shanghai, it’s short and absolutely not worth the cluster it will create on its opening year. No need to come for at least the next three years, then, according to D23’s announcements?
If only Disney viewed the parks in the same way they viewed Disney+. Offer something for everyone, and continue to switch it up every quarter. Create engaging seasonal content, and even if it isn’t all for me it creates a feeling that I’m not actively wasting my money. Create destination events that have meaningful expiration dates like Mandolorian spoiler fear day or Dancing with the Stars water cooler day. Invest in limited-time magic.
I’ve been waiting for these shows to be cancelled to justify a trip. After that, it looks like it’ll be a pretty long while before even small investments are made again.
"Awesome" it is not stupid it would be.
You do realise if he was cleaning a restroom for 30 mins it would cost Disney $7810 based on his salary! If he did custodial for a day they may as well not both cleaning the bogs and just demolish the lot and build new ones as as it would be cheaper.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
But can you put a value on what the experience would teach him? Or our joy at the video?....