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What happened to pretty Spaceship Earth?
- Thread starter JimboJones123
- Start date
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
The more I think about it, the more their system makes sense.
While not visible from the ground, the upper part of the sphere contains a system of hidden channels and drains that help funnel rainwater in a controlled manner so that it doesn't drip in a huge circle, including onto guests' heads. The reason you see so much crud for the day after the ground-based washing is presumably because a lot of built-up debris and dirt is forced back up this gutter system when you hit it with high pressure water from below. Cleaning the top as a final touch is ideal because this dirt will be washed back along the gutter system (and away from visible tiles) when you clean it from above, rather than forced onto the sides of the sphere.
CDavid
Well-Known Member
Seriously? The fact that it rained during parades in the 1980's is a comparable problem to structures left neglected and rotting for years? You can't compare anecdotal examples from 1983 to documented examples (ie., this forum) from 2013. Of course things went wrong in 1983, and in fact there were problems starting October 1, 1971 and continuing through today, but what has changed is the response when things go wrong. Previously, we could count in Disney making an honest effort to fix problems and keep things in a state of good repair, and again that often got them the benefit of the doubt (deserved or not). Now, however, we see (and hear) of far too many things neglected, and our first assumption upon seeing something wrong is that Disney knew full well of the problem and chose to let it slide - because we are aware of just how often they do exactly that.
You have to be careful saying "nothing" ever went wrong thirty years ago, because never is seldom if ever true - always an exception that breaks the rule. At the same time, nothing is "always" true either; Just one example to the contrary is needed to make the statement untrue, and that's not hard to find. What has changed is Disney's too-frequent lack of a good faith effort, and thus we are quick to critisize, and it's often justified (but not always - there's that word again - such as the Spaceship Earth power washing).
You can't just explain all this away by pixie dust in our eyes thirty years ago. There were occasional problems, but they generally got addressed in a reasonable time.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
Can anyone take their time machine back to the 80's and show me valid proof Spaceship Earth was always operating in optimal performance everyday?
In fact while they are at it prove to me all of WDW was optimal as people soooooo like to pretend.
Jimmy Thick- Someone just has to have a time machine, how can people see these unproven facts so clearly?
In fact while they are at it prove to me all of WDW was optimal as people soooooo like to pretend.
Jimmy Thick- Someone just has to have a time machine, how can people see these unproven facts so clearly?
CDavid
Well-Known Member
If I remembering correctly (because THE DOCTOR has my TARDIS...) Spaceship Earth wasn't working my first time entering Epcot (early '83), and they were directing people to Universe of Energy, but for some reason we couldn't/didn't ride it either. I believe we did finally ride Spaceship Earth on the way out of the park that evening.
Things weren't perfect - that's not the point.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Well, some of it was, in fact all of it except any significance being placed on the rain on parades part. That was pure and unadulterated sarcasm. And I think it is quite legitimate to blame it on Pixie Dust, better defined as being impressed with what we saw at the time. There were only "occasional problems" because the damn place was brand new and you don't know if they got addressed in a reasonable time because we didn't have the camera's and internet watching every move back then. If you went this year and something was broken and then you went back next year and it was fixed, the we just assumed that it was fixed right after we saw it broken. We have no way of truly knowing how true that is, because we have not been in the parks everyday for the past 41 years.
I will admit that there is a BIG difference between now and 1983. The biggest difference is the very social network that we are presently conversing on and the reality that we were given in years past. I also don't know the average age of everyone I am speaking to and I don't know what the average age they were when drawing the opinions that they presently have of between then and now. I do know that everything that I thought was huge and flawless when I was a kid, seem small and vastly flawed now.
We only remembered from back then what we saw for the brief period of time that we were exposed to it. Add to the the fact that most of the posters of today were very young when they first saw a park, be it DL or WDW. Combine those two and you will get an unavoidable contrast between reality and perceived reality.
I was 35 years old before I ever set foot in a Disney Park (WDW). I was as starstruck as my kids were, but they never saw the flaws that I did. Might I also point out that I was not, at the time, bothered by the flaws that I saw nor was I looking for them, and have only remembered them because everyone seems so hell bent on making the situation far worse then it really is. None of the early Guests ever spent time on the internet reading negative or positive information about the parks. Thankfully, Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet, so we just rode in with our expectations which were personal and not tainted by nit picky, perfection expecting, self appointed judges of what Theme Park quality should be.
As far as maintenance is concerned, I take a couple of things into consideration. One is the age of the attractions in the parks, especially MK, being the oldest (41 years) and I can marvel at the condition that everything is in considering it's location and usage. Anyone that thinks that a piece of machinery can last for that long and still be functioning as well as much of that place does and then, in the same breath says that maintenance is horrible, is living in an parallel universe. (That's saying it nicely) Time for a reality check! Considering the size of the place the fact that things are fixed as quickly as they are is also an indication of organized and continuous upkeep based on a prioritized system. Anyone that thinks that all they have to do is throw more people at it are also dwelling in that parallel universe. First there are not enough skilled people available to do that and, if there were, most of them would be standing around most of the time waiting for something to break. I don't care how much money you think that Disney has, that would be a formula for failure in a business of any size. Yet another reality check.
The areas that they are failing in is the empty buildings. In the 80's you did not see that. Everything was open and functioning. Some at different levels of importance but they were open. They didn't give the appearance of a company that has either lost its will to be the best or are being run by the "I'm smarter then everyone else generation" that has no clue what anyone thinks because they only use statistical measurement and what they read on the internet as the basis of their decision making. They have no social skills, no ability to understand what subtle little things can create in the mind, even without the person really knowing what it is consciencely.
So, all those words for me to say basically what you did, except that in the 80's and 90's we were not able to get instant access to what was happening. We would go and an attraction, possibly our favorite would be down for maintenance and we had no way of knowing it until we got there. We didn't immediately jump to the conclusion that everything had gone to hell in a hand basket. I think that we realized that a park is a park. A Disney park has millions of people there every year, each one creating their own share of wear and tear and possibly, more then their share, of dirt and mess.
I am aware the there is a certain amount of complacency in management today. Or, maybe there was then as well, but hadn't had time to manifest itself yet. The advent of the social networks have created a negative attitude and therefore has perhaps quickened the tension and also the tenacity of management to feel that they know how to run a theme park and we don't. Sadly, they are partially correct. I also see a large group of people (Guests) that are unable to ever say...good job! All we can say is, "man did you guys screw up", and that is without us even knowing what the end result will be. Seriously! How long would your incentive last under those conditions. Everything you do is awful and nothing you do is good. Pretty soon you just want to sit back and collect your bonus (because that is the only positive thing coming your way) and tell all of us to go someplace else if we don't like it. I'm not sure we don't deserve it. It's not a healthy long range outlook for the Disney Park business, but I doubt that they have any reason to care anymore.
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Things were not all that perfect. People just didn't want to waste one of their 24 shots on a burnt out bulb or flaked paint, then run around to all their friends complaining about it. This is one of the detriments of the digital age.....that and a shortage of proper meds.
CDavid
Well-Known Member
I essentially agree with most of what you said here. Indeed, we did not thirty years ago have access to the wealth of (online) information we do today, although based on what knowledge we did have, I think justifies the conclusion that in 2013 things are held to a very different (lower) standard.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
That and the fact there was no instant access to information like the internet age.
But no matter what people will always make fallacious arguments about how great the "old days" were yet will only have their personal memories to rely on and reality says memories are always better than the present.
Horizon's was so great yet the time I rode it there was no one riding it...The Adventurers Club was so great yet the last time I went there, there was a handful of people in the place...
Jimmy Thick- Those who live in the past...Can stay there.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
For sure, just the small part that I talked about tends to show that. Sometimes I don't think it is lower standards so much as an inability to understand what people want to experience. To them shutting down an attraction is just a money savings action. They are not able to see beyond that one thing. They think that the attraction that they closed down was low attendance so it won't be missed. They are either to young or to spreadsheet focused, or both, to be aware of the psychological impact that it might have.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
And you can actually prove actual complacency beyond what is posted by a handful of people on Disney message boards?
Disney has been running successful theme parks for how long and all of a sudden they don't know what they are doing, yet the parks keep growing attendance wise? *Chuckles*
Jimmy Thick- lol what?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I would just like to add to that, although he is quite dead whether frozen or not, Walt Disney instinctively knew that. That is why he was insistent on show quality and the value of looking like a success at all times. One can get away with a chip of paint or two as long as the bigger picture is in place. I hated to bring that up because, sadly, he is no longer anything more to the company then the name, but, over time the things that Walt knew in his heart, without the benefit of an expensive education, will fade further and further into the past and The Disney Co. as it relates to Theme Parks will have a day of reckoning, I feel pretty certain of that.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
The lax maintenance in general from early 2000's and afterwards in order to pinch pennies has been extensively shown. It was stated by many insiders here that they eliminated most of the night shift crews that used to work on the parks after hours every night. That alone is all you need to know to realize that maintenance isn't capable of being anywhere close to as good as it was pre-2000, it's only natural that quality is going to drop when you're only operating at a tiny fraction of your original crews. One simple example were the lightbulb crews that patrolled the parks every single night and changed any bulb that had reached 80% of its life expectancy (even if it wasn't burned out yet). So on the off chance you did find a couple of bulbs burned out, they were the oddball defective ones that died before their life expectancy was up (and they weren't left unchanged for years, months or even days like you see on the Grand Floridian). They along with so many other departments are long gone now.
Prior the the dark ages of the 21st century, you certainly never saw anything like concrete rockwork falling in guest areas or people getting killed due to derailed train cars or snapped cables. That's one of the reasons Disneyland was cleaned up for its 50th, people that had gone their entire lives realized the place was a dump and they started noticing. Now the tide has largely shifted and for the better part of the decade it has been Disneyland that is praised for its upkeep.
Even within the heavy internet age we've actually seen firsthand what shifts in management philosophies will do to a park. And not everything for all parks has been negative. For some time while Disneyland was going through its own dark era, it was WDW that I gather was praised for some time. After its 50th though the praise for Disneyland was incredible. We've witnessed WDW decline during the course of the past decade. But even now there has been a very obvious improvement almost immediately after George Kalogridis took over (still a ton of work to do but you're seeing more trip reports such as Martin's stating a fairly equal amount of both positive and negative things as opposed to just purely negative as was the case before 2013). Likewise, at least a few attractions at Disneyland i've heard have been declining after Colglazier took power over there and it was mentioned in several threads here and elsewhere (it will take some time before we see whether these issues spread and become worse).
Disneyland Resort certainly went through an unsuccessful era when they built DCA (before it was saved by Cars Land and the 50th cleanup) and guests ended up dying due to the Eisner, Pressler and Harris incompetent park management philosophy of "run it to failure". They clearly saw that as a failed way to run a theme park and didn't know what they were doing, so they changed it. It's ridiculous to assume a brand is always going to be successful when it's being run by a constantly shifting corporate entity with different leaders and philosophies.
Prior the the dark ages of the 21st century, you certainly never saw anything like concrete rockwork falling in guest areas or people getting killed due to derailed train cars or snapped cables. That's one of the reasons Disneyland was cleaned up for its 50th, people that had gone their entire lives realized the place was a dump and they started noticing. Now the tide has largely shifted and for the better part of the decade it has been Disneyland that is praised for its upkeep.
Even within the heavy internet age we've actually seen firsthand what shifts in management philosophies will do to a park. And not everything for all parks has been negative. For some time while Disneyland was going through its own dark era, it was WDW that I gather was praised for some time. After its 50th though the praise for Disneyland was incredible. We've witnessed WDW decline during the course of the past decade. But even now there has been a very obvious improvement almost immediately after George Kalogridis took over (still a ton of work to do but you're seeing more trip reports such as Martin's stating a fairly equal amount of both positive and negative things as opposed to just purely negative as was the case before 2013). Likewise, at least a few attractions at Disneyland i've heard have been declining after Colglazier took power over there and it was mentioned in several threads here and elsewhere (it will take some time before we see whether these issues spread and become worse).
Can you prove they weren't? The burden of proof is on you to disprove statements by actually reputable people such as Lee, Martin etc as well as the testimony of many people here. You're the small few here who is claiming nothing has gotten worse since the early 90's and prior.
Disneyland Resort certainly went through an unsuccessful era when they built DCA (before it was saved by Cars Land and the 50th cleanup) and guests ended up dying due to the Eisner, Pressler and Harris incompetent park management philosophy of "run it to failure". They clearly saw that as a failed way to run a theme park and didn't know what they were doing, so they changed it. It's ridiculous to assume a brand is always going to be successful when it's being run by a constantly shifting corporate entity with different leaders and philosophies.
willtravel
Well-Known Member
And while your at it could you rebuild HOR and WOM please?
luv
Well-Known Member
It isn't a sudden thing. It's been a slow, gradual decline.
Bill Brasky got drunk one night on avacado margaritas and decided to play a practical joke on Disney. Word is he dropped his big hat in front of some Chinese theater just to see how long it would take for it to wind up in lost and found. Dang near a decade later and its still sittin there! To Bill Brasky!
wdwms
Active Member
Proving the past was as we remember it is very difficult...and yes, it is very hard for others to imagine or even believe us that WDW was a different place 15-25 years ago. I wrote this on my website, 1 year ago tomorrow to be exact...
"Technology moves, expectations move, but your hunger for the past never seems to go away. We as humans want to relive what is familiar, what inspires us, and what was magical to us as a child. As we get older we realize that a certain attraction needs a coat of paint or that a fountain needs to be cleaned. When we were young we never saw that, everything was magic - and we pine to have a bit of that magic back. Our eyes have changed, we see more, we are wiser and the world has changed around us. Quite frankly, we don't like it. We want what was familiar to us during our childhood - warm, inviting, safe and magical. If we could go back to EPCOT Center of the 80's, would it be as we remember it, or would our wider eyes and wiser minds disappoint?"
Food for thought perhaps... You can read the rest here: http://www.retrodisneyworld.com/epc...enter-30-years-a-bittersweet-life-lesson.html
Vader2112
Well-Known Member
Beat me to it ...
