what ever happened with project gemini?

[General Grizz]

Autopia has only been reported by Jim Hill. He said himself that many of the ideas have been cut back - and I am pretty sure this is one of them. It's amusing how so many theme park sites take exactly what is on his map...i.e. calling the Living Seas' replacement "Under the Sea", and the exact changes of Innoventions.

It's not going to be exactly like that. Mr. Hill provided a general idea of what's going on...Imagineers are still working.

And as for Life, I seriously doubt they're going to update it, as far as keeping it along with the WoL idea. Rumor was they would paint it black and put Toy Story in, but I'm really hoping this few-year-old idea is lost and forgotten. Still, it's horrible to forsee it sitting behind a BUNCH of trees.... :lookaroun

 

[XSTech]

""SSE: Time Racers" and "Discoveryland" have furthermore become trademarked names by the Walt Disney Company."

this fact has been mentioned by countless people as proof of gemini's existance.

has anyone realized that Discoveryland is the name of Tomorrowland at Disneyland Paris? wouldn't that be why it is trademarked? why does it necessarily have anything to do with epcot?

i have no comment on spaceship earth other than to say that i will miss it if it changes but i welcome a grand new attraction in its place much in the same way that i welcome mission: space in horizons' place.

 

[General Grizz]

Sad loss, it may be...especially since it's the LAST omnimover AA attraction of its kind...

*massages neck*

*deep breath*

Originally, Tomorrowland in the Magic Kingdom was going to be called "Discoveryland," believe it or not. Ideas included a Timekeeper-style Adventurer's club, a totally different kind of Astro Orbiter, and Flying Saucers replacing the Carousel of Progress.

Thank goodness we got New Tomorrowland instead...

 

[Michael72688]

oh thank god, I'm very glad to see Disney officials are not gong to let Epcot rot anymore!! :sohappy:

 

[SirNim]

Originally posted by Lee
Soarin' may in fact be a stand alone attraction, between Land and Seas, and not actually part of Land. That much is still up in the air. It will be coming though.

:lol:

droppin hints, eh? :lol:

j/k

 

[Lee]

Having ridden Soarin' Over California many times, I can say that I think it is THE showstopper at DCA. It would be a fantastic addition to EPCOT.

The Rainforest coaster and Junior Autopia were pretty much just "blue sky" concepts. Don't look for either of them to happen.
Not to say there won't be a coaster coming to the park, just probably not there.

Nemo at Living Seas is a near certainty at this point.
Time Racers is probably about 75%.
Soarin' is about 90%.

As for Discoveryland at MK, I think it would have been good, at least parts of it. Turns out it went to Disneyland, in a much reduced form, instad. The Astronomer's Club would have been wonderful, maybe it can make it to EPCOT.
The Flying Saucer concept is not dead, only resting.

As for Discoveryland being at DLP, the application for trademark was just last year, while DLP had been open for 10 years. It's not that. In fact, another step toward that trademark was taken by Disney less than one month ago.
"SSE:Time Racers" was applied for in April.

 

[General Grizz]

What's the source of this information? Because the Rollercoaster (rainforest or NOT) idea seems to have gone through some developmental stages...apparently some "head haunchos" have spotted both sides of the Land through intensive investigation, and several Cast Members were informed in one way or another of this.

Has someone informed you on these percentages, or is it practicality? Thanks!

 

[Mikejakester]

is discovery land another land like Fantasy Land and Tomorow land??

Why did it go to California?

 

[AdLibSean]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
What's the source of this information? Because the Rollercoaster (rainforest or NOT) idea seems to have gone through some developmental stages...apparently some "head haunchos" have spotted both sides of the Land through intensive investigation, and several Cast Members were informed in one way or another of this.

Has someone informed you on these percentages, or is it practicality? Thanks!

Oh Grizz say this isn't so! I assumed that this would be one of the concepts to not even make it to development!

 

[General Grizz]

Discoveryland is only currently in Disneyland Paris.

The EPCOT Version is totally separate from the Tomorrowland ideas...

Disneyland has Tomorrowland, not Discoveryland.

 

[General Grizz]

Originally posted by AdLibSean
Oh Grizz say this isn't so! I assumed that this would be one of the concepts to not even make it to development!

We can hope...there's always that chance. But reports have indicated it...and the target age for Gemini is 18...

 

[Lee]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
What's the source of this information? Because the Rollercoaster (rainforest or NOT) idea seems to have gone through some developmental stages...apparently some "head haunchos" have spotted both sides of the Land through intensive investigation, and several Cast Members were informed in one way or another of this.

Has someone informed you on these percentages, or is it practicality? Thanks!

Yes, rollercoasters are being looked at for EPCOT. One (or 2) possible spots is the open space around the Land (surveys were done), but this idea faces strong opposition from inside the company, so I consider it unlikely.
World Showcase has supporters as an alternate location, however, with Japan and China as the leading contenders. Germany has space too, I believe.
Actually, there was even talk not too long ago about putting a coaster similar to Cali Screamin' in the area between the Boardwalk and France, tied to the boardwalk theme, of course. I don't think this idea made it too far, as it was also considered for Phase 1 of Boardwalk, but was tossed out as being unpractical and noisy for hotel guests.

As for the percentages, yes, I was informed of them. My source has been excellent in the past year, so I tend to believe it.

 

[Lee]

Sorry if I confused anyone by talking about Discoveryland.
To be more precise:
It is the name of a land in DL Paris, instead of Tomorrowland. I find it to be one of the outstanding works by WDI in the last decade.

It is the proposed name replacement for Future World, which indeed has little to do with the future anymore.

The Discoveryland at Magic Kingdom made it a long way through the approval process, but died a painful death at around the same time as Tomorrowland 2055 at Disneyland. (Sigh)

The new Tomorrowland at Disneyland ("Imagination and Beyond") uses many design elements of Paris' Discoveryland, which were also found in the MK concept (Copper, rock, etc.).

Whew.....

 

[DarkMeasures]

Hmmm... If Disney were to build a sky pavilian, a enclosed flying coaster would work very well.

 

[Mikejakester]

That discoveryland makes sense. I mean future is epcot. too bad is not happening. It would make sense to change the name. Im still a little confused on the subject, but oh well, who isin't! :lol:

That coaster in the showcase pavillions sounds like a good idea. I always thought those pavillions needed something else than just things to look at. Every Pavillion should have their own little attraction.

 

[General Grizz]

Your showcase idea was actually one thought up way back in the 70s when EPCOT Center was being designed.

"EPCOT" really has no meaning now. It used to be the name for all of Walt Disney World until they took off the "Center" in the mid-90s.

Discoveryland has more to do with the present. Because they don't want to update Future World for the future.

So either they leave the word "EPCOT" meaningless or they rename it to

EXPERIMENTAL
PROTOTYPE
COMMUNITY
OF
TODAY

 

[Poncho1973]

Grizz Grizz Grizz,

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I've been reading what you've been writing on this topic for the last 1.5 years. I respect your dedication and your heartfelt sense of purpose on this topic, but you are sometimes just misinformed.

I've read your tremendously long essays on family rides vs. thrill rides and your condemnation of change. I respect your feelings and opinions. I just think that you are missing the financial point. Change happens. Walt Disney himself believed that the parks would never be complete. They would always change. Guests come back for a reason. To feel like they belong. To experience the magic. I know that EPCOT was originally planned to be an "educational experience"... but it just doesn't cut it. If you don't believe me... try walking around and seeing exactly how many people are doing the educational things. It's sad, this I'll admit.. but learning isn't "cool" at theme parks. We need to focus on backing into learning from a different angle. You can still learn while you have fun.

SE is long, slow, boring and unconfortable. Especially uncomfortable. It's a nice place to sit when it's hot outside b/c it's in the a/c for over 20 minutes... but the learning is lost when you've got a krink in your neck and your butt falls asleep.

Mission:Space is a wonderful thing.
Test Track is a wonderful thing.
The new Imagination is a wonderful thing.

The future is coming... step aboard.



p.s. the space between M:S and TT is not for a ride... that's where the original monorail piers to DD are buried. They built around them JUST IN CASE they ever decided to use them. I've touched the piers myself. They ARE there.

p.s.s. Jim Hill is a crock piece of crap. Mr. I-know-what-was-supposed-to-go-in-but-no-one-can-prove-that-I-do-or-don't-so-I'm-a-genius

 

[Poncho1973]

Another thing... I think Gemini is a lot less active than you think.

 

[pjammer]

Originally posted by Poncho1973
Grizz Grizz Grizz,

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I've been reading what you've been writing on this topic for the last 1.5 years. I respect your dedication and your heartfelt sense of purpose on this topic, but you are sometimes just misinformed.

I've read your tremendously long essays on family rides vs. thrill rides and your condemnation of change. I respect your feelings and opinions. I just think that you are missing the financial point. Change happens. Walt Disney himself believed that the parks would never be complete. They would always change. Guests come back for a reason. To feel like they belong. To experience the magic. I know that EPCOT was originally planned to be an "educational experience"... but it just doesn't cut it. If you don't believe me... try walking around and seeing exactly how many people are doing the educational things. It's sad, this I'll admit.. but learning isn't "cool" at theme parks. We need to focus on backing into learning from a different angle. You can still learn while you have fun.

SE is long, slow, boring and unconfortable. Especially uncomfortable. It's a nice place to sit when it's hot outside b/c it's in the a/c for over 20 minutes... but the learning is lost when you've got a krink in your neck and your butt falls asleep.

Mission:Space is a wonderful thing.
Test Track is a wonderful thing.
The new Imagination is a wonderful thing.

The future is coming... step aboard.

Unless you go to Epcot everyday and observe people then you don't relealize how many small children and families have fun at Epcot. Epcot's atmosphere is more than just learning...its a laid back atmosphere where you can just relax instead of worring about the hustle of trying to do everything or waiting in long lines like at the MK. Adding a bunch of "thrill" stuff will take away from that and totally ruin that atmosphere. And I'm not going to touch the Spaceship Earth subject since I'm obivously biased.

Also AT&T no longer sponsors Spaceship Earth. The fact that it still says AT&T all over the attraction is not proof that AT&T still sponsor it. Ask any cast member at Spaceship Earth and they will tell you that AT&T is no longer the sponsor. I've seen the memo AT&T sent to all they employees saying that effective at the end of Januarary 2003 AT&T would no longer sponsor Spaceship Earth.

Wonders of Life may not be closing. I'm surprised some of you who are "in the know" haven't heard of the Toy Story rehab for Wonders. Of course I guess it woudl be a close since the building would no longer be called Wonders of Life. But the Toy Story rehab is very possible. And I knew about the Toy Story rehab way before Jim Hill ever reported it.

If any theme parked should be view as boring it should be MGM. Besides ToT and RnR that park has nothing appealing at all. You can spend half a day there and done everything. And if you are a repeat visitor, you probably aren't going to do another half of the stuff there. With the opening of Mission Space Epcot will have a "thrill ride" duo to match MGM's plus the amount of shows and rides that MGM doesn't have. Epcot already has better attendance numbers than MGM without Mission Space...just imagine when Mission Space is open. Just because all you "thrill" junkies think that Epcot is boring doesn't mean that it should be ruined for everyone. Why don't you stay at MGM or Magic Kingdom and compare notes with someone that spent a day at Epcot and see who really had the most fun. Besides you don't think they serve alcohol in the showcase for no reason. The best times I've had on Spaceship Earth and HISTA are drunk.

If it's not broke, don't fix it. And Epcot is not broke. Epcot attendance is doing better than MGM, plus Consumer Report rated Epcot the highest in guest satisfaction. That doesn't sound broke to me. And if "thrill" junkies wheren't crying out that Epcot was boring...then maybe Disney would see their real problem is at MGM.

 

[Lee]

I'm not sure I understand the anti-Gemini feeling out there.
Project Gemini does not mean the death of EPCOT, merely an enhancement to keep the park up-to-date and enjoyable for all age groups and interests.
It is counter productive to become possessive of a single ride or show. These attractions are not sacred artifacts, they are theme park attractions, and should not be clung to at the expense of improvement and modernization.

Do I want a coaster in Spaceship Earth? No.

Do I want to see Spaceship Earth receive a makeover that would include an updated story, effects, vehicles, and just maybe a higher excitement factor. You bet.

Is Living Seas dying on the vine? Yes.

Is wonders of life in need of a new direction. Yes.

The comparison to MGM is a good one to make, only I look at it the other way. I feel MGM is a good mix of attractions, from shows to thrill rides, and has something for everyone. Yeah, it could stand another attraction or two to help extend a guests length of stay, but maybe the new Stunt show will help that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
These parks are going to change over the years.
That is unavoidable.
Walt was all for that. His EPCOT never existed, and the park we have now should not be clung to like a museum.
Change can be good.
Let's take EPCOT's (and CoP's) advice and look toward a beautiful tomorrow, full of innovative and entertaining attractions.

And please don't knock people who try to make life interesting by dropping little bits of info about what may or may not be coming to the parks. I know stuff, and am not at liberty to divulge how I know it. Mr. Hill knows stiff, and is not always at liberty to go into detail about his sources. Just take all the info on the boards with a grain of salt, and enjoy what might happen.