what ever happened with project gemini?

DarkMeasures

New Member
Food Rocks could always go also. I went on it and it was cruel and unusual punishment.

At least I escaped alive. Maybe an enclosed rollercoaster could be built behind the land.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Originally posted by DarkMeasures
Food Rocks could always go also. I went on it and it was cruel and unusual punishment.

At least I escaped alive. Maybe an enclosed rollercoaster could be built behind the land.

Behind the Land would be extremely hard...there's a lot of greenhouse space...and in fact, a bus route is used directly behind Future World.

Food Rocks AND Circle of Life extend into the both sides, which would be ideal for queuing areas, perhaps...
 

Tim G

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Poncho1973
the space between M:S and TT is not for a ride... that's where the original monorail piers to DD are buried. They built around them JUST IN CASE they ever decided to use them. I've touched the piers myself. They ARE there.

They ARE there, that's true...

But they will never going to be used...

It's easier to leave them where they are...
 

Lee

Adventurer
Originally posted by SirNim
However, it does, yes, seem to be big enough for a roller coaster... ;) :(

A small coaster, yeah. Any coaster of size would require major themeing to be done to what are now backstage areas.

But, as I've been saying, Soarin' is almost positively going into that general area, and that building and a coaster will not both fit.

Compare the photos I linked to earlier in the thread. It's gonna have to be one or the other.

Unless some major demolition is done to either an existing pavillion or to the service areas behind Future World West.
 

Budke

New Member
I should know better than to get involed in a 7-page thread

Let me get this out of the way before I post my other thoughts. That WDW would add a double-sized Soarin’ attraction to their resort is a very west-coast idea. Disneyland has very different capacity issues as compared to WDW. DL simply doesn’t have the space to allow too many guests to not be in a queue or in an attraction. Several people I know who have visited both resorts are surprised at how FastPass works at WDW but creates frustration (at least for them) at Disneyland. WDW simply has the space to allow virtual copies of guests to stand in line.

Take Country Bears as the obvious example. The WDW version was built with one theater. The capacity of the ride is equal to the level of guest interest and has been a popular attraction since the Magic Kingdom opened with no changes. At Disneyland, they built two theaters. After a few years, the capacity/guests per hour ratio dropped and the show was changed to re-spark interest. Then holiday versions were added to keep the show fresh. In the end, they were contemplating another redo when management tore down the ride and replaced it with Pooh. Were there fewer fans of the bears in California? Probably not. But Disneyland needed twice as many fans to justify the operational cost of the ride.

The capacity/guest interest ratio is what is affecting most attractions as they get older. The CoP has six theaters and an amazing capacity to eat hordes of guests. But the Magic Kingdom must be near capacity itself to justify opening the attraction. There simply isn’t enough interest to match its capacity.

I think the Soarin’ attraction at California Adventure will have the same issue in future. Luckily, being a film-based attraction, the attraction itself won’t have to be demolished to make way for something new.

At WDW, I believe they will demolish the Circle of Life theater and then add a single Soarin’ theater with a queue and FastPass distribution point. It will be as popular as its California cousin and the capacity will appropriate to the demand for years and years. Long after Disneyland is trying to figure out what to do with their two half-empty theaters.
 

Mikejakester

Active Member
So soaring will where CoP is now???:confused:
:lol: I think I'll just wait and see what disney does on this.

and back to the space in epcot.

I would have to desagree with the ppl that said there is space for a rollercoaster... I mean... Sure... I can belive a rollercoaster like THE FLYING UNICORD At IOA could fit there. But none of you are discribing a ride of that magnitude. What I am hearing is this Big Themed rollercoaster that goes thru the forrest and the target age is 18. I doubt something like that would fit in that space.
I don't know if you guys noticed but there are Streets and loading docks right next to the pavillions.

i don't know but I just don't see the space for a BIG E-ticket ride there. And if they do built something there. There would have to be some changes to the pavillions next door. I don't see what "MASSIVE" space you guys are looking at... Maybe Im just looking in the wrong place.

Then I again thats just me. :p

:wave:

http://www.disneypix.com/2000ft/Roll2/Roll02_020.htm
 

Budke

New Member
Oh great, I pushed it to 8 pages. And this is an unnecessarily long one.

I last visited WDW in May of this year during the Flower and Garden Festival. Epcot, being our favorite park, was where we planned to spend the bulk of our trip. While others in this thread have described the West side of Epcot as tranquil, this area of the park made us alternately sad, confused and disappointed.

The Living Seas pavilion is an embarrassment. This area of the park was near empty (which I suppose can be considered tranquil). Construction walls squeezed passageways inside, escalators were turned off, and the entire place had a feeling of an old civic aquarium that never met its funding goals.

The Land felt like a mall food court. The greenhouses are still stunning and the Behind the Seeds tour is exceptional (if you have any interest in gardening) but the place feels like it was built in 1981, which it was.

The Imagination Institute had lots of activity thanks to Honey I Shrunk the Audience. But I guess I’m off base here as I preferred the second incarnation of JII over either 1 or 3.

(OK, I remember being amazed by the original ride the first time a rode it. I also remember vividly on our family’s second trip to WDW that the funniest part of the ride was at the very end when you could see the pictures of those people riding in front of you on the big screen. Picture after picture flipped up with 4-5 bored people wondering if the ride was going to end soon. We laughed hardest at ourselves. The only interested person in our photo was looking at something on the back of their hand. The current ride feels like the Imaginers said, “You want Figment? Fine!” (insert sound of Imaginers splurting Figment into every corner of the attraction). Personally, the only thing the current ride really needs is to drop the pseudo-science “imagination can be quantified – oh I was wrong, it can’t” thing. It’s hard to get excited about a ride when the narrator clings to an obviously false idea.)

But I digress (finally). The reason I splurted my feelings into this … 8-page thread (sheesh!) is that any improvement to Future World would be welcome to my wife and I. I disagree with those who feel the concept and vision of Epcot will be forever soiled by drastic change (I know no one actually used words like that, but I’m on a narrative roll now). I think there is a fundamental confusion about what Epcot is. Walt Disney envisioned EPCOT as an Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. We all know that. But many people confuse that vision of a working, gated, republican utopia with the Theme Park that Roy Disney help build long after his brother’s death.

Epcot is a world’s fair. Always has been. Big corporate pavilions rarely seen at actual Worlds Fairs since, well, Disney built them, along with an international showcase of countries presented by the various countries themselves. The original theme of this fair? Past, Present and Future. All of the corporate pavilions (save Imagination) explored this theme. But World’s Fairs only last about 1.5 years and after 10 years, the theme at Epcot started to get tired. With 20 years passed and most of the original Pavilions remodeled or removed, a re-theme of this fair is long over due.

Step one, and this is certainly part of the Discoveryland concept, is to drop the Future theme. The real world caught up with Epcot before the 80s ended. Standing in the fountain courtyard, you could be standing in the 3M or Microsoft corporate campus, or a pedestrian plaza in a city or a mall (often referred to as the Disneyfication of America). When I first saw The Land it didn't feel like a food court because food courts didn't look like that. And aquariums didn't have massive artifical reefs. But as America Disneyfies, my perspectives change. And some of what I see here, I can see anywhere.

Of the architecture, only Spaceship Earth has any lasting architectural legacy. But that’s OK. It is near impossible to create a lasting architectural legacy. Few buildings in the world are really considered icons and that Disney created one as recognizable as Sidney’s Opera House or the Empire State building is very impressive. But Disney can actually step ahead of America’s embrace of theme and story by pushing for designs that are impractical to build outside of a theme park. Like, perhaps, a rainforest. Or an aquarium where you feel like a fish under water as well.

I hope they create a theme where Epcot is simply the place where mankind has ALWAYS gathered to celebrate what it is to be alive. A place to celebrate cultures and traditions. A place to celebrate intellect and ideas. A place to celebrate the earth we live on, the things we build and dreams we dream.

I hope they remodel the buildings around the plaza not just to separate them, but to make them look as if they were built decades apart and not in same afternoon. And more shade is always welcome. Those large sun-drenched plazas can really slow you down.



CODA:
Rereading this, I feel I should return to the top to say that we didn’t spend the majority of our trip at Epcot as planned. What used to take two full days, and that we were going to stretch into nearly three because of the Garden Festival, only took us three half-days, with most of that time spent in the World Showcase (and most of THAT time seemed to be spent in the Japan Pavilion talking ourselves out of buying Spirited Away merchandise). We spent more time at Animal Kingdom and the Disney Studios enjoying the themeing and attractions, and we wish we spent at least another half day at the Magic Kingdom. Epcot, or at least Future World, is no longer our favorite park.
 

Budke

New Member
Humiliating realization.

"But Disney can actually step ahead of America’s embrace of theme and story by pushing for designs that are impractical to build outside of a theme park. Like, perhaps, a rainforest."


But NOT like, say, the Rainforest Cafe which can be found in malls at half the major markets from coast to coast and in two other places on property. (Insert crazy emoticon that I don't know how to do here).

OK. I offically recind that particular statement and also offically change my opinion on that idea for The Land pavillion (one point for Mikejakester).

But do not change my hope that Future World will get some attention and a new theme.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Originally posted by Mikejakester
So soaring will where CoP is now???:confused:
:lol: I think I'll just wait and see what disney does on this.

Huh?
No no no.

Soarin is going into EPCOT in the general area around the Land.

CoP will remain unchanged.........for the time being.:animwink:

Forget the Rainforest coaster. Its so unlikely at this point, we should turn our attention elsewhere.

As for building a single theatre Soarin attraction, I don't know. Yeah WDW can hold a lot more people who have fastpasses and are wainting, but the capacity of Soarin' is not all that high (1300/hour). The two theatres at DCA are always in use, and fastpasses often run out, with a standby of an 2 hours or more on busy days. And this is DCA we're talkin' about, where busy days see 25-30 thousand guests, and average days are closer to 15 thousand. Two theatres may be necessary.
 

GenerationX

Well-Known Member
I hope they create a theme where Epcot is simply the place where mankind has ALWAYS gathered to celebrate what it is to be alive. A place to celebrate cultures and traditions. A place to celebrate intellect and ideas. A place to celebrate the earth we live on, the things we build and dreams we dream.
Wow, Budke, that should be Epcot's (beautifully poetic) mission statement. Very impressive.

I'm in complete agreement with everything you've said. If this is what happens as a result of Project:Gemini, I'm all for it. Hey, Eisner, if you're reading this, listen to this guy!
 

DarkMeasures

New Member
Originally posted by GenerationX
Wow, Budke, that should be Epcot's (beautifully poetic) mission statement. Very impressive.

Disney should Get Blue Man Group to write their Mission Statement.

BMG has been true to their statement for well over a decade and even though they perform now 9 times a night across the country, they still get booked for months even though their show may change once every 5 years. Another thing they do is that they keep their old shows running as well as keep on getting new shows. For example. Their original show is still played twice a day at Chicago, New York and Boston. A glorified version of this show then is played in a gigantic theatre at the Luxor. And then there is their rock tour which goes across the country playing at various cities. And then there is Berlin where plans for another show is underway.

And yet there is no slowdown. Now if Disney could do to Epcot what Blue Man can do to their shows, then I am sure that Epcot would be the best park in the world right now and later rides would be much grander then their predesors. We would definitly not have the problem with Wonders of Life and Imagination like we do today.
 

TURKEY

New Member
Originally posted by DarkMeasures
Disney should Get Blue Man Group to write their Mission Statement.

BMG has been true to their statement for well over a decade and even though they perform now 9 times a night across the country, they still get booked for months even though their show may change once every 5 years. Another thing they do is that they keep their old shows running as well as keep on getting new shows. For example. Their original show is still played twice a day at Chicago, New York and Boston. A glorified version of this show then is played in a gigantic theatre at the Luxor. And then there is their rock tour which goes across the country playing at various cities. And then there is Berlin where plans for another show is underway.

And yet there is no slowdown. Now if Disney could do to Epcot what Blue Man can do to their shows, then I am sure that Epcot would be the best park in the world right now and later rides would be much grander then their predesors. We would definitly not have the problem with Wonders of Life and Imagination like we do today.

Wow....

I can't believe you are trying to compare the Blue Man Group to Epcot. :rolleyes:

Does the Blue Man Group have 18 pavillions with varying types of rides, movies, and displays? I don't think so.

There is no way that Epcot could ever be in a ever changing environment without billions and billions of dollars. It's financial suicide. The only thing that could be updated at Epcot with little time and effort are the movies. There would be no good in replacing TT without tearing it down. Same with The Land and The Living Seas.

Man, I can't believe some of the stuff I read on this site.
 

DarkMeasures

New Member
Well there is one video at their shows that actually educates the people. In this video, there is a narrorator who explains about fractals. It may seem boring but halfway through the voice goes "****, I love the sound of my voice"

A simple line could turn forced learning into a comedy.

I would bet you that BMG could run Epcot better than Disney could.
 

Mikejakester

Active Member
im stilll searching for that infamous Jim Hill Gimini map?
can anyone link me to that map.?
Im curoius to see that.
:hammer:

Thanks

Lets go to 9 while were at it shall we?

:wave:
 

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