What do you think of the EPCOT Central Spine redesign?

[cbconglom]

Personally I don't care for the direction the project is heading. Too much will be lost, it's for the wrong reason and far from being more covered there will be a huge, vast open area like a desert, devoid of detail, buildings or emotion. I'll just spend less time in this park.

But that's just me.

like a concrete desert? or just landscaping and greenspace? either way it's sad to lose things but greenspace would certainly be the better option between those two.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Believe me, the proposed plan has far more open area than now. And less net shade. If it happens you`ll understand. If it doesn't I`ll explain.

The paint job, overgrown foliage and areas closed off are TWDCs fault. And they have the power to easily fix it, instead of trying to justify a wholescale demolition of the middle of the park. And that is what is proposed. Again, I`ll be able to explain in greater detail in the future if anyone is interested.

Precisely. Epcot is only in the dying state it's in because Disney couldn't be bothered to properly follow through on updates or any kind of vision for the park. Demolishing the Communicore complex would be yet another stupid, stupid decision. I was wondering why the Blue Sky art showed so much empty space behind SSE; guess now we know why. Trees, water, and plants are always welcome, but this is a theme park - there also need to be shops, restaurants, and, you know, attractions!

Seems like a few Imagineers could be on a bit of an ego trip, or have the misguided opinion that remaking Epcot means you have to demolish large chunks of the original park. In their quest to be the ones who "save" Epcot they're ignoring what the park could be, destroying a lot of what it got right, and still don't seem to understand what it actually needs to succeed.

(And of course we'd be interested to hear the backstory/history of all this! )

I`ll just leave this here. This both stills exists and could exist again today. And look even better with minimal asthetic improvement:

View attachment 218782

And look, it had goregous landscaping. Like the rest of the spine.

To me, that picture resembles the (almost completed) new headquarters of a certain company in California. It's going to be a massive building built in circular form, with floor to ceiling windows for walls, multiple levels, interior pathways, an open concept, and manicured grounds. Sound familiar?

Literally a few cosmetic changes is all it would take. What was sleek and modern in 1982 and can still be today.

EPCOT Center truly was a showcase of the future.

 

[trainplane3]

like a concrete desert? or just landscaping and greenspace? either way it's sad to lose things but greenspace would certainly be the better option between those two.

I think I see what @marni1971 means. The center of FW will be a bunch of trees across a flat area aka bland. Sure, there's shade and green space. But having trees as shade doesn't help for cover during a storm. At least CC has large coverage during a storm. With this design, I'd need to run (no complaints from me, thinking of other park-goers) to one of the donut buildings, the seas, imagination, etc. Those things are all spaced very far out if I'm in the middle of FW. Also, they're also a lot smaller than CC.

I'm all for more green in FW but leveling nearly everything to plant some trees and pave random paths with no buildings or theming is looking more and more lazy to me. Just seems like they don't want to pay the A/C bill for CC anymore.

Maybe using the current Hub at MK is a good example. It's a big flat space with some trees stuck in it. Good for traffic flow (still a cluster though...), bland in terms of looks.

The more I look at the concept art, the more I go from "this looks interesting" to "how about no".

 

[WDWFREAK53]

I honestly agree - classic minimalist design can be timeless. Less is more in this scenario. Disney are very good at the immersive, busy, detailed landscapes and environments. I believe Future World would work better if it was the exact opposite to this though!

The open space should punctuate the iconic, simplistic but imposing design of each individual pavilion. The architecture and design of each should be allowed to stand on its own merit. Each pavilion should effectively be a visual weenie to the guest drawing them towards it with only a hint of what lies inside.

It is the layer upon layer of additions which have been gradually added to Future World which have diluted not enhanced the design. Each sign, paint scheme or other visual addition acts to break up the illusion.

It is the lack of stuff which makes the environment appealing. Much like a clean, modern, minimalist hotel room before a guest comes in to unpack their stuff. They look much better BEFORE you throw your junk everywhere!

I think an entire sweeping re-imagining of the entire area is definitely the way to go here - it has to be cohesive as a whole, but I really think less is more with this area of the park. Let World Showcase be highly detailed and immersive.

Future World's strength needs to come from its simplicity - the original design was spot on in my opinion. The attractions need updating but the layout and outside architecture needs to be restored not updated.

While, for the most part, I agree with what you wrote, I think you are trying to have the cake and eat it too. (And I could've taken it the wrong way as well).

"The open space should punctuate the iconic, simplistic but imposing design of each individual pavilion. The architecture and design of each should be allowed to stand on its own merit. Each pavilion should effectively be a visual weenie to the guest drawing them towards it with only a hint of what lies inside."

With the buildings as they currently stand, how can the surrounding buildings be "visual weenies" to guests? If you're standing at the Fountain of Nations, it's pretty difficult to see The Seas, Land, UoE, WoL, etc.

Redesigning the buildings using today's current technology/materials could make that happen. Imagine if they recreated the Communicore buildings using the same footprint but with Low-Iron glass. You'd see clearly through the buildings to the pavilions to the East and West...and from the pavilions, you'd see any fountain/lighting package they'd create in the concourse. You could create a roof much like the existing buildings but have completely clear walls.

 

[MCast]

@marni1971 - Is there an alternative plan that is preferable? If so, why is it better?

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 - Is there an alternative plan that is preferable? If so, why is it better?

There are a few alternates. I very much liked the one that kept the Communicores but updated and revitalised every inch both inside and out. And extended the north builds too.

 

[MCast]

There are a few alternates. I very much liked the one that kept the Communicores but updated and revitalised every inch both inside and out. And extended the north builds too.

Okay, so then there's still hope. Has there ever been a time where Disney park goers mobilized to effect change at a park?

I'm talking about contacting park officials and articulating their strong feelings, which ultimately were brought to fruition.

 

[trainplane3]

Okay, so then there's still hope. Has there ever been a time where Disney park goers mobilized to effect change at a park?

I'm talking about contacting park officials and articulating their strong feelings, which ultimately were brought to fruition.

If I had to guess, Figment after the Journey into YOUR Imagination disaster? I know that had a very, very big push to get him back. Nowadays, I think it's more about $$ and less about our opinions.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Okay, so then there's still hope. Has there ever been a time where Disney park goers mobilized to effect change at a park?

I'm talking about contacting park officials and articulating their strong feelings, which ultimately were brought to fruition.

Change at a park concerning an attraction? That's debatable. Probably the most direct example would be Epcot's 25th. Management originally was planning to do next to nothing so fans took it upon themselves to organize and make plans to be at the park on October 1, 2007. It did cause a reaction within the company and an official celebration for the day was quickly cobbled together.

From way back:

Did you guys see this article?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-epcot18sep18,0,1995017.story


Looks like there will be a public re-dedication ceremony and more on October 1st. Most of you have probably already seen this.

OrlandoSentinel.com

Epcot expands 25th anniversary plans

Scott Powers
Sentinel Staff Writer
September 18, 2007

Pressed by fans, Walt Disney World is expanding its observance of Epcot's 25th anniversary by providing company-sponsored public events to go along with private celebrations already set for Oct.1.

Disney is now planning a public "rededication ceremony" inside Epcot that day that will echo much of the original 1982 dedication. It also will have an exhibit hall dedicated to the park's first 25 years; a special "IlluminNations" light show at the close of the day; and retro guide maps, restaurant menus and other souvenirs.

Still, the observances are far less involved than those Disney has already organized for Epcot employees -- less even than some of the private events organized by Disney fans.

Disney officials had indicated earlier this year that there would be no company-sponsored public observances of Epcot's silver anniversary. Instead, they said commemorations would focus on the theme park's employees.

Many Epcot fans used various Internet forums to criticize Disney for not planning a public marking of the Epcot milestone. The fans also used the Internet to organize private celebrations. As their private arrangements picked up steam this summer, Disney apparently reconsidered its plans.

Epcot's new vice president, Jim MacPhee, announced in June that some sort of public celebration would take place. He also disclosed that Disney would take down the wand-and-arm structure that had towered over Epcot's signature attraction, Spaceship Earth, since 1999.

Now Disney is providing details of the public observances that will be available to paying visitors to the park on Oct. 1.

MacPhee, one of Epcot's original employees from 1982, said the anniversary is still focused on employees, particularly the 300 who both opened the park and still work there. That effort began earlier this month, with various commemorative decorations, giveaways and employee recognitions.

"We've always planned to celebrate the 25th anniversary for our cast. It began to evolve very quickly as we focused on what a great milestone it is," MacPhee said. "It's great. I love the fact that people have such huge passion about what we're doing."

The resort's change of heart may be partly attributed to the emerging success of various private Epcot parties -- including "Celebration 25," which is being spearheaded by Adam Roth, a 16-year-old Dr. Phillips High School junior.

Celebration 25, which will feature Epcot history tours, get-togethers and parties Sept. 30 and Oct. 1, started as an Internet-networked get-together of Epcot fans. Initially, it was expected to draw 100 or so participants, but the latest count tops 1,100 registrants.

Another private celebration, "The Epcot Thing," sponsored by the unofficial Disney-fan Web site MagicalMountain.net, also involves various parties and get-togethers Sept. 30 and Oct. 1. And the annual Florida convention of the National Fantasy Fan Club will take place at Disney World that weekend.

Disney officials have noticed the private preparations, and have called organizers to help coordinate the official and unofficial events.

Roth does not think the private celebrations goaded Disney into creating a public Epcot celebration. But he thinks they may have inspired Disney to do more than was originally intended.

"All our efforts combined -- I think it does show we do have a presence out there of fans," he said. "I think it was a polite reminder that it does mean something to us."

Scott Powers can be reached at spowers@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5441.



Copyright © 2007, Orlando Sentinel

 

[MCast]

If I had to guess, Figment after the Journey into YOUR Imagination disaster? I know that had a very, very big push to get him back. Nowadays, I think it's more about $$ and less about our opinions.

Totally agree. You need a compelling argument to them that will ultimately result in "the green stuff." Look, I know people continuously state the Epcot Center of yesteryear is dead. I believe that too.

BUT there can be a happy medium between the tone and spirit of Epcot Center and the short-term attention spans of parkgoers nowadays.

And ultimately, if that can be achieved and it's marketed correctly that the Epcot Center from before is revived, I think that would excite a lot people who are sentimental about their first time visiting Epcot Center. Plus, it would introduce a whole new generation to this revived Epcot Center.

That creates word of mouth. That empowers people to visit. That results in dollars.

 

[trainplane3]

Totally agree. You need a compelling argument to them that will ultimately result in "the green stuff." Look, I know people continuously state the Epcot Center of yesteryear is dead. I believe that too.

BUT there can be a happy medium between the tone and spirit of Epcot Center and the short-term attention spans of parkgoers nowadays.

And ultimately, if that can be achieved and it's marketed correctly that the Epcot Center from before is revived, I think that would excite a lot people who are sentimental about their first time visiting Epcot Center. Plus, it would introduce a whole new generation to this revived Epcot Center.

That creates word of mouth. That empowers people to visit. That results in dollars.

Can there? Oh for sure! But the multi-million dollar question is, would it be worth the effort? Could they have overhauled UoE to be based around the big bang? Add in some amazing affects? Keep it at its' 45 minute long ride time? Yes. But why go through the effort of overhauling the ride but have the risk of it still being associated with a 45 minute snooze-fest (NOT my opinion) and low returns? Let's stick something that we know will draw people in and have guaranteed returns.
So sad, but it seems true.

I'm all for keeping it educational but entertaining. I've always enjoyed that from the age of 4(?) going to Strasburg and learning about trains to seeing Gettysburg at 10-ish and learning about the war. Even when given a chance, I'd watch the movies in WS and enjoy learning something over waiting 1 1/2 hours for a ride. But it seems like I'm a minority in my generation of people glued to their phones.

 

[jtudor]

Is there any thought to the redesign with the new Illumination Drone show? Perhaps better sight lines from that area of the park?

 

[po1998]

The architectural and structural aspects of the CC buildings is fine and still beautiful. The window films can be removed. The overgrown foliage can be cut back or removed. The buildings need to be cleaned up, repainted back to 1982 white and possibly reconfigured in certain areas, but they don't need to be destroyed.

TDO thinking...if we get rid of the buildings, then there will never be any questions of "what can we do with the space inside these buildings that has been vacant for years".

 

[Horizonsfan]

This whole plan is bizarre, bluesky or not. Why the demo spree? Communicore was designed around flexibility? ADA and egress wise, the typical reason for demo, isn't really an issue here thanks to the 94/99 overhaul. I could see partial demo, or switching the original interior breezeways to just a shelted exterior pathway to save on AC costs; but why turn it into a nature preserve?

Aesthetically these buildings don't need much, new spider-joint glass alone would make them pop...give them a paint job, maybe swap out the neon banding for LED screens or strips.

I really hope this plan goes the way of Hyperion Wharf and they move back to the other refurb option @marni1971 has described.

 

[IMFearless]

I think the biggest issue for Epcot is identity. Future World in particular lacks a cohesive theme. It is not yet as bad a situation as we see at DHS, but it is simply a jumble of attractions at best.

I don't think most park goers "get" Epcot. In my opinion management's answer over they years has been to diversify away from the original theme of Future World, but I think they should have instead focused more closely on what it was about rather than diversify away from it. Once the whole of WDW becomes a giant homogenized jumble of attractions, you end up in a situation where the oldest or least interesting bits become "skippable" much like DHS has become for some guests. If Epcot had a clear role and identity as the science/geography/technology park it makes it different enough that people will want to visit.

World Showcase works well, people understand the idea of it, that it's a collection of themed mini countries highlighting an idealistic view of what we think that country could be like. Lots of nice things to eat and buy along the way. A few shows to watch and a nice stroll around the lagoon. Most people do the same thing, it works.

Future World could be so much more if they really thought about the original ideas they had in the beginning. Seas, Land, Imagination, Transport, Communication, Health, Energy. They are topics that have huge potential if they were done well. The theme is not the issue, it is the lack of it.

 

[IMFearless]

While, for the most part, I agree with what you wrote, I think you are trying to have the cake and eat it too. (And I could've taken it the wrong way as well).

"The open space should punctuate the iconic, simplistic but imposing design of each individual pavilion. The architecture and design of each should be allowed to stand on its own merit. Each pavilion should effectively be a visual weenie to the guest drawing them towards it with only a hint of what lies inside."

With the buildings as they currently stand, how can the surrounding buildings be "visual weenies" to guests? If you're standing at the Fountain of Nations, it's pretty difficult to see The Seas, Land, UoE, WoL, etc.

Redesigning the buildings using today's current technology/materials could make that happen. Imagine if they recreated the Communicore buildings using the same footprint but with Low-Iron glass. You'd see clearly through the buildings to the pavilions to the East and West...and from the pavilions, you'd see any fountain/lighting package they'd create in the concourse. You could create a roof much like the existing buildings but have completely clear walls.

To be honest, I was picturing the pavilions once you are past Communicore Buildings and you start heading towards each of the pavilions. Epcot looked best in the early days in my opinion. I love the simplistic modern design Apple go for with their stores. This type of design seems to be what Future World was originally aiming for. They should definitely move in this direction particularly for the Entrance and central area of Future World.

 

[clemmo]

Personally I don't care for the direction the project is heading. Too much will be lost, it's for the wrong reason and far from being more covered there will be a huge, vast open area like a desert, devoid of detail, buildings or emotion. I'll just spend less time in this park.

But that's just me.

More blank open space? I already feel like epcot has a lot of that... more so than any other park. If the plan hasn't fully been decided yet since it's still blue sky it shouldn't be too early to write off the other alternatives though hopefully

 

[HauntedPirate]

It is crazy to me that Disney would knock down these building to construct a whole new Hub. I agree, they could use the existing structures and just spruce up the look of them. It would definitely be easier and cheaper. I am surprised they are not going to do that. It would allow them to focus more on the other parts of Future World.

Well, this is the Iger/Chappie-era Disney, where it's apparently cheaper to demolish and replace than to refurbish existing.

 

[Kman101]

TDO thinking...if we get rid of the buildings, then there will never be any questions of "what can we do with the space inside these buildings that has been vacant for years".

Unfortunately this seems to be the case. Typical TDO thinking. Shame.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

To be honest, I was picturing the pavilions once you are past Communicore Buildings and you start heading towards each of the pavilions. Epcot looked best in the early days in my opinion. I love the simplistic modern design Apple go for with their stores. This type of design seems to be what Future World was originally aiming for. They should definitely move in this direction particularly for the Entrance and central area of Future World.

Ahhh...yes, see...I read it wrong.
Looking at the art, once you are past the expanse of trees and bushes, it's nice (the Bellagio-style fountains). I don't think I'd mind if they had a sort of "welcome center" where the Fountain of Nations is. It could be a glass dome from the outside but when you walk in, the inside of the dome is screen showcasing the different Future World experiences. (Almost like a World Key 2.0.) If they were really gung-ho, they could find a way to extend SpaceShip Earth into it before it reaches the Load/Unload area.