WDWFreak53, car discussion

[DMC-12]

After hearing so many bad things about it, I didn't mind the one I had . . . until I got in my Cobalt and realized how easy it was to select radio stations.

If I ever get another BMW, I think I'll pass on the i-drive.

When I was working with the Acura RL system... it was similar to the BMW idrive... but the Acura knock-off was much more intuitive and easier to use. I guess Acura took a somewhat good idea... and made it an even better one.

 

[garyhoov]

When I was working with the Acura RL system... it was similar to the BMW idrive... but the Acura knock-off was much more intuitive and easier to use. I guess Acura took a somewhat good idea... and made it an even better one.

Remember when digital readouts got popular . . . and then people realized the old fashioned gauges were simple and easy to read? I have a feeling that's what will happen with these systems. They may supplement some of the functions with settings you can control through the computer (and obviously you'll need some sort of computer interface for the nav systems), but I think the things you really need will retain buttons and knobs.

It's fun to show your friends how you can make your car do things by talking to it . . . but the novelty wears out quickly and then you just want to push a button and be done with it.:lol:

 

[mkt]

ooo.. Skyline discussion.

Living in a part of the world where I can travel 30 miles to the east and see several of them on the road, it's time to chime in.

The GT-S (RWD, Turbo 2.5L 6cyl) was Japan's equivalent of the Standard Corvette
The GT-R (AWD, Twin Turbo 2.6 6cyl) was Japan's equivalent of the Z06

To give an example of the cars potential, The R32 Skyline beat the Nurburgring track record at the time.. by 25 seconds. It was banned from the Bathurst 1000 in Australia (among several performance and Group A events in Australia) because it was too good, even after attempts had been made to limit its performance (adding 350lbs of ballast and limiting boost to 19psi). It won 27 continuous races in JTC Group A in Japan, 29 in FIA Group N, and due to its continued dominance, it was given its own series, the JGTC.

In Europe, the Nissan GT-R's dominate the Spa 24 hour classic. The Group A entry from Olofsson/Brabham/Hattori qualified on pole and lead the race from start to finish. The GT-R had a one minute lead before the end of the first hour. By the early morning - the GT-R was ahead by three laps, eventually winning by 21 laps from the second place Porsche Carerra 2. In the Group N class for standard production cars, the Nissan GT-R's finished 1-2-3. All three of the GT-R's crossed the finish line in formation.

This car is a monster.

 

[garyhoov]

ooo.. Skyline discussion.

Living in a part of the world where I can travel 30 miles to the east and see several of them on the road, it's time to chime in.

The GT-S (RWD, Turbo 2.5L 6cyl) was Japan's equivalent of the Standard Corvette
The GT-R (AWD, Twin Turbo 2.6 6cyl) was Japan's equivalent of the Z06

To give an example of the cars potential, The R32 Skyline beat the Nurburgring track record at the time.. by 25 seconds. It was banned from the Bathurst 1000 in Australia (among several performance and Group A events in Australia) because it was too good, even after attempts had been made to limit its performance (adding 350lbs of ballast and limiting boost to 19psi). It won 27 continuous races in JTC Group A in Japan, 29 in FIA Group N, and due to its continued dominance, it was given its own series, the JGTC.

In Europe, the Nissan GT-R's dominate the Spa 24 hour classic. The Group A entry from Olofsson/Brabham/Hattori qualified on pole and lead the race from start to finish. The GT-R had a one minute lead before the end of the first hour. By the early morning - the GT-R was ahead by three laps, eventually winning by 21 laps from the second place Porsche Carerra 2. In the Group N class for standard production cars, the Nissan GT-R's finished 1-2-3. All three of the GT-R's crossed the finish line in formation.

This car is a monster.

Interesting. So can you comment on the unique characteristics of the car and that race (and maybe race-team) that combine to make it so competitive?

What do you know about the specifications of this new version? I only know bits and pieces. It's a V-6 (twin?) turbo, correct? Do you know what kind of power and torque it puts out? Do you know much about the gearing and weight? I'm assuming most of those details haven't been officially released, but I'm hoping you may be able to make some assumptions based on previous models and what is known/rumored for this version.

 

[garyhoov]

I'm not sure if anyone here (except me) is interested in this, but I figured I'd post it for you to either ignore or not. Pretty big news in the motorcycle world:

BMW to enter World Superbike
(10/15/07)
BMW has confirmed its long-awaited entry into World Superbike competition for 2009. The race machine will be based on the K1000 RS chain-drive K190/190 project bike slated as the sportiest BMW production bike since the "Walter Zeller" RS 54 of the mid-50s. That bike, in turn, was an ultra-pricey King-cam bevel-drive Boxer sold only in sufficient numbers to meet the to the series requirement and even then. only the well-connected could buy one. The "RS" in that case truly meant Rennsport (racing) rather than Reise Sport (touring sport). This K1000 RS bike will once again be a racer, but a series version is likely to be sold under a more democratic marketing plan. More in OTLs to come.

 

[garyhoov]

 

[mkt]

Interesting. So can you comment on the unique characteristics of the car and that race (and maybe race-team) that combine to make it so competitive?

The racing stats I pulled off the net. Unfortunately for me, most of the information was in Japanese, so I'll skip on that. But I don't believe the types of wins they pulled off could have just been due to a better racing team. If you can wait a week or so, I'll be in Tortola, when I can just ask a local that owns an R34 or R33 questions or I'll swing by a grey market car dealership that may have details. Maybe I can convince them to let me test drive it One bit of trivia: The Porsche 959 was the target set by the R32 GT-R, which is the GT-R first known as Godzilla

What do you know about the specifications of this new version? I only know bits and pieces. It's a V-6 (twin?) turbo, correct? Do you know what kind of power and torque it puts out? Do you know much about the gearing and weight? I'm assuming most of those details haven't been officially released, but I'm hoping you may be able to make some assumptions based on previous models and what is known/rumored for this version.

As for the new engine, I'm as in the dark as you. I've heard rumors of a Cosworth tuned V8, but personally I think it's gonna be a Twin Turbo 6. Historically, the GT-R has had a straight six, which would make sense to me if they were trying to keep with a defining characteristic, but I don't think Nissan has a straight six world engine available. I think it's going to be a Twin Turbo V6.

R34 GT-R specs

Watercooled, 2.6L (ok 2569cc) twin turbo Straight 6. Stock numbers are 276hp@6800RPM & 289.3lb/ft@6800RPM. Redline is 8,000rpm Power/Weight ratio is 179.2hp per ton. Weight on the outgoing R34 GT-R was 3392 lbs in stock form and the final drive ratio was 3.27:1. Bear in mind that much like the German 155mph manufacturer limits, Japanese manufacturers have a gentlemans agreement limiting power to 280hp on production vehicles. Lastly, number. 0-60 in 4.6seconds, 1/4 mile 14 seconds at 104mph, top speed 112mph due to japanese restrictions. Delimited it can reportedly reach 171mph. Bear in mind though that tuned (and obviously delimited) versions are reported to hit over 200mph with little difficulty.

The last R34's produced during regular production were the Nür, named after the Nürburgring. It essentially featured a street legal version of the Nissan N1 racing engine (which is the tuned racing version of the RB26DETT that powered the skyline GT-R) which produces about 350hp and had a top speed of 186mph.

The last R34 produced after the production run was the V-Spec Nismo R34 GT-R Z-Tune (gotta love the alphabet soup). I can't find many specific numbers, only that 20 were made, with a 2.8L (bored and stroked) twin turbo Straight Six uncorked for about 600hp
Lastly, 2 good articles for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA_E-TS and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HICAS That's a quintessential part of what makes a GT-R special

Last stat. A nissan engineer with the R32 GT-R was reported to have said that engine is capable of 500hp in stock form and then muzzled by Exhaust, Boost Restriction, and the ECU. Nissan did its part to make it tunable though, eg the Boost restriction is marked in Yellow, to make it safer and easier to remove.

 

[mkt]

another link for Gary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline_GT-R

 

[garyhoov]

I can't find many specific numbers, only that 20 were made, with a 2.8L (bored and stroked) twin turbo Straight Six uncorked for about 600hp

Cool! Thanks for all the info!

I've always liked the idea of getting more for less . . . that's why I was disappointed when BMW went to the V-8 in the M3 - I would have like to see them push the six cylinders to the limit rather than addin cylinders.

I'm really interested now to see the details on this (I guess they'll give us everything at the Tokyo show).

It seems like they'll have to offer something in the ballpark of 400 HP to compete with Corvette and Porsche (and differentiate this car from the 350).

I'm curious now if they'll keep displacement down to keep in line with the race limitations or if they'll offer a larger displacement version for the US market. If they keep it true to its racing roots, I think that would be more interesting.

 

[mkt]

I have a feeling they'll do a base model with about 400hp

then special editions with 500+ hp

and to hell with the gentlemans agreement

 

[garyhoov]

I have a feeling they'll do a base model with about 400hp

then special editions with 500+ hp

and to hell with the gentlemans agreement

This is the United States, not Japan. . .




. . . we don't know the meaning of the word "gentleman".:lookaroun

 

[flynnibus]

The true skyline was a pure monster.

A combination of cutting edge technology of the day along with just incredible power. The paper spec was limited by the fore mentioned gentlemen's limits, but the car was known to do so much more and have a BULLETPROOF motor.. that could be pushed to absurd numbers quite easily.

The car's handling, AWD, differentials, and power with relatively small displacement is what made it so potent.

Realize they call the G35 'skyline' in japan now (you'll see some americans rebadge theirs as well). I don't think the GT-R of today will be anything like the previous generation. They were just so far ahead of their time and the new car is targeted at a different market

 

[mkt]

The true skyline was a pure monster.

A combination of cutting edge technology of the day along with just incredible power. The paper spec was limited by the fore mentioned gentlemen's limits, but the car was known to do so much more and have a BULLETPROOF motor.. that could be pushed to absurd numbers quite easily.

The car's handling, AWD, differentials, and power with relatively small displacement is what made it so potent.

Realize they call the G35 'skyline' in japan now (you'll see some americans rebadge theirs as well). I don't think the GT-R of today will be anything like the previous generation. They were just so far ahead of their time and the new car is targeted at a different market

Here's one thing most americans that know what the Skyline is don't realize. There was more to the Skyline than just the GT-R. There were base model Skylines, 4 door skylines, skyline wagons... hell, I recall seeing a chop-top skyline when I went to Japan in 2001. The Skyline is like a 3 series. Versatile and available in whatever configuration you need to suit you. In that vein, the GT-S is like the 335 and the GT-R is the M3 (or M3 CS/CSL). I think it was necessary to seperate them as models in order to allow the GT-R to grow without the constraints of the Skyline/G35.

I think the new GT-R will compete mainly with the M3 and Corvette once in the US... and I really look forward to seeing that happen

Now to get rid of that nasty base model Skyline stigma

 

[garyhoov]

Okay, I'm thinking about this waaaaay to much, primarlily because:

1. I'm bored
2. I'm trying to think of some reason why I shouldn't pop down to the Nissan dealer and buy that blue 350Z I was looking at on Saturday.


. . . but my biggest concern with the 350Z has always been that it's a few hundred pounds heavier than I would like.

When I was looking at the frame and engine placement,

I was thinking that it would be cool if they could shift the engine and passenger compartment back some, but that wouldn't reduce weight. It would also make it impossible to use the G37 frame, because the engine mounting points would be too far back, and that would cause problems fitting the G37's rear seat.

If the 350Z doesn't share the frame with the G37, that will drive up costs and eliminate the low price that has made the 350Z attractive.

But that dead space hanging back on the 350Z still bothers me. It seems to just be adding weight and size that isn't needed for a 2-seat coupe.

But if they didn't need to re-do the whole frame, there might be some options. If they created new stampings for shorter longitudinal frame rails, they could still use the front and rear frame components of the G37 frame (and suspension components, engine, etc), but they could take some of the length out.

That could save some weight an produce a car more appropriately sized for a 2-seat coupe.

I played around some, and came up with this:

Which is really just me playing around . . .


. . . or is it?

Remember when these spy photos came out?

And the story was ( http://news.windingroad.com/body-st...upes/spied-nissans-new-affordable-sports-car/ )that it appeared to be a smaller Nissan disguised as a 350Z . . . but chasing a Cayman around the Nurburgring?

Notice how eerily similar that looks to my sketch? Hmmmmmm . . .

Now combine that with this artist's conception:

and I think we might be getting an idea of what the next 350Z will be:

A smaller, lighter car based on a shortened version of the G37 frame (so it could use the same (330 hp?) engine).

Something like that should be able to compete head-to-head with the Porsche Cayman and MZ4 Coupe.

I like the sound of that.

Hopefully there's something to all this.


Did I mention I was bored?:lookaroun

 

[flynnibus]

I have a hard time seeing any car maker DROPPING weight these days... especially when they can instead just spend R&D on pushing HP/TQ numbers which is what sells most cars anyways

They can add features and HP numbers and win both audiences if they let weight creep up.

Personally I see the G37 as a bad sign for a future Z... lets just pray for a TT to offset the weight.

I'd like to have a the M z4 varient myself if looking for a play car Luxury with grunt and handling.

If ignoring style and luxury, I'd settle into either power.. buy a mustang and go nuts... or boosted life... evo.

 

[mkt]

Jalopnik is reporting a 0-60 time of 3.5 secs on the new GT-R

 

[garyhoov]

I'd like to have a the M z4 varient myself if looking for a play car Luxury with grunt and handling.

Dealers are supposedly getting big "trunk money" on the MZ4's. I've been seeing a lot of people saying they're getting roughly $10,000 off MSRP.

My dealer has one now, but it's loaded up with a bunch of crap and listed at $57,000, so I could probably get it for $47,000 (and I've been toying with the idea of making an offer), but even though that's a chunk off list, it's still a lot to pay for a toy. And if I just got one without the heated seats, etc., it would be around $51,000 MSRP, so that great deal would only be about $4000 off a more basicly equipped model.

. . . so as much as I'm trying to find reason to convince myself to jump and buy something now, I can't really justify that.

. . . besides, the anticipation is most of the fun, and there are some cool new things coming out - rumor has it that the "Z2" may be unveiled in Tokyo, and if not, the next generation Z4 should be due soon.

The Solstice coupe should also be showing up soon, and, as we've been talking about, there should be a new 350Z variation due soon.

. . . but I've been getting the bug, and I'm in the mood to get something - that's why I've been hanging around this thread so much.

 

[garyhoov]

Jalopnik is reporting a 0-60 time of 3.5 secs on the new GT-R

I just now saw this on Autoweek: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/17/official-specs-of-nissan-gt-r-revealed/

3.8 l V6, 473 HP, 434 ft-lbs . . .

Sounds like it could be fun.

No mention of the weight that I could find. One thing that I don't like is it looks like it will only be offered with the dual-clutch paddle-shifters. I'm sure it's a great transmission, and I'm sure I could get better track times with something like that than a traditional transmission, but I'm old fashioned and I still can't get used to the idea of paddle-shifters.

If I actually was considering one (obviously I'm not), that would be a big mark against it for me.

 

[garyhoov]

Here Brian. You were just asking about the fuel-cell Equinox:

http://cars.about.com/b/a/217155.htm

First impressions: Hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered Chevrolet Equinox

When it comes to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, my attitude has always been "I'll believe it when I drive it."
Well, as of yesterday, I believe it.

General Motors is about to put about a hundred hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered Chevrolet Equinox CUVs into the hands of the public, and before that happens they gave a few of us journos a chance to see and drive them while putting us through a program they call Electric Drive University.

The first thing you'll notice is that GM is de-emphasizing "hydrogen fuel cell" and emphasizing "electric vehicle". Fuel-cell vehicles -- often called FCVs or FCEVs (the E for Electric) -- are basically electric cars with a hydrogen fuel cell in place of a battery. GM sees electric propulsion as the platform of the future -- the beauty being that the electricity to power these vehicles can be generated in a number of ways, be it a hydrogen fuel cell, a battery, a gasoline or diesel engine-generator set, or some combination thereof.
So how does the Equinox FCEV drive? Pretty well. It accelerates like a V6 off the line, and a 4-cyl at higherspeeds. Range is about 160 miles. The fuel cell apparatus makes a surprising racket at idle, but once on the road the Equinox is quiet and comfortable. Christine and Scott Gable -- our Guides to Alternative Fuels and the real experts -- will attend the program later next week, and will post lots more details on the About.com Alternative Fuels site.
Want to volunteer for an opportunity to drive the fuel-cell Equinox? Visit Chevrolet's fuel cell page and click on the Apply for Test Program link at the bottom. -- Aaron Gold

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Here Brian. You were just asking about the fuel-cell Equinox:

http://cars.about.com/b/a/217155.htm

First impressions: Hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered Chevrolet Equinox

When it comes to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, my attitude has always been "I'll believe it when I drive it."
Well, as of yesterday, I believe it.

General Motors is about to put about a hundred hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered Chevrolet Equinox CUVs into the hands of the public, and before that happens they gave a few of us journos a chance to see and drive them while putting us through a program they call Electric Drive University.

The first thing you'll notice is that GM is de-emphasizing "hydrogen fuel cell" and emphasizing "electric vehicle". Fuel-cell vehicles -- often called FCVs or FCEVs (the E for Electric) -- are basically electric cars with a hydrogen fuel cell in place of a battery. GM sees electric propulsion as the platform of the future -- the beauty being that the electricity to power these vehicles can be generated in a number of ways, be it a hydrogen fuel cell, a battery, a gasoline or diesel engine-generator set, or some combination thereof.
So how does the Equinox FCEV drive? Pretty well. It accelerates like a V6 off the line, and a 4-cyl at higherspeeds. Range is about 160 miles. The fuel cell apparatus makes a surprising racket at idle, but once on the road the Equinox is quiet and comfortable. Christine and Scott Gable -- our Guides to Alternative Fuels and the real experts -- will attend the program later next week, and will post lots more details on the About.com Alternative Fuels site.
Want to volunteer for an opportunity to drive the fuel-cell Equinox? Visit Chevrolet's fuel cell page and click on the Apply for Test Program link at the bottom. -- Aaron Gold

Only 160 miles?!?!?!? I drive that in 2 days! Does that mean you can go on 160 miles per charge? I don't get it...is it not a vehicle that needs to fill up at a Hydrogen station? hehe.