WDW Permits 2013

[danlb_2000]

Question:

The monorail upgrades being discussed on another thread... Did Disney pull permits for them, or are they working without a permit? If they did pull a permit, I don't recall seeing it here...

On that thread, I confused another figment as you and asked that person the same question. I apologize for that. I guess not all figments are the same... Lol

This is a good question and one I have been thinking about recently. I haven't seen any permits that were clearly for this but there could be some vague permits that are tied to this. I even went back and double checked that I haven't missed any permits in September and October. I also haven't seen ant permits that are clearly for the Magic Kingdom Main Street bypass.

After a little digging I found this one which is a possibility. It's a six month electrical permit for the Monorail station at the TTC. It might cover the other work also.

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/downloads/20130458389.pdf?parent=DOC1251S215

 

[PeterAlt]

This is a good question and one I have been thinking about recently. I haven't seen any permits that were clearly for this but there could be some vague permits that are tied to this. I even went back and double checked that I haven't missed any permits in September and October. I also haven't seen ant permits that are clearly for the Magic Kingdom Main Street bypass.

Thanks for the response! You remember that scathing report that aired on ABC during the 90's about Reedy Creek and Disney? One of the criticisms was that Disney gets away with un-permitted construction at WDW. I was wondering if this is (a) a legitimate claim and (b) if this is an archaic company practice that no longer happens. Also, I remember clearly reading at the time AK opened that the Tree of Life was being constructed for several years in secret before anyone knew Disney planned a gated theme park there. If that's true, that would be another example of un-permitted work. It's also possible they obscured it with a permit that was intentionally misleading. If you can find a Tree of Life permit issued during the time before construction, that would clear that up. An obscure permit for that time period could shed some light. No permit at all definitely will prove the claim ABC made.

 

[danlb_2000]

Thanks for the response! You remember that scathing report that aired on ABC during the 90's about Reedy Creek and Disney? One of the criticisms was that Disney gets away with un-permitted construction at WDW. I was wondering if this is (a) a legitimate claim and (b) if this is an archaic company practice that no longer happens. Also, I remember clearly reading at the time AK opened that the Tree of Life was being constructed for several years in secret before anyone knew Disney planned a gated theme park there. If that's true, that would be another example of un-permitted work. It's also possible they obscured it with a permit that was intentionally misleading. If you can find a Tree of Life permit issued during the time before construction, that would clear that up. An obscure permit for that time period could shed some light. No permit at all definitely will prove the claim ABC made.

@Tom could probably address the question of un-permitted work. I don't see how the tree of life could have been secretly under construction for years without someone spotting it. Components of it could have been under construction off site, which wouldn't have required a permit.

I will take a look for the AK permits and see what I can find.

 

[PeterAlt]

@Tom could probably address the question of un-permitted work. I don't see how the tree of life could have been secretly under construction for years without someone spotting it. Components of it could have been under construction off site, which wouldn't have required a permit.

I will take a look for the AK permits and see what I can find.

Thanks. I also tried Googling Tree of Life and Disney's Animal Kingdom and secret construction to find where I had originally read that from with no success. I know what I read and I know I'm not crazy.

 

[Big C 73]

Thanks for the response! You remember that scathing report that aired on ABC during the 90's about Reedy Creek and Disney? One of the criticisms was that Disney gets away with un-permitted construction at WDW. I was wondering if this is (a) a legitimate claim and (b) if this is an archaic company practice that no longer happens. Also, I remember clearly reading at the time AK opened that the Tree of Life was being constructed for several years in secret before anyone knew Disney planned a gated theme park there. If that's true, that would be another example of un-permitted work. It's also possible they obscured it with a permit that was intentionally misleading. If you can find a Tree of Life permit issued during the time before construction, that would clear that up. An obscure permit for that time period could shed some light. No permit at all definitely will prove the claim ABC made.

A segment from that report:

 

[danlb_2000]

Thanks. I also tried Googling Tree of Life and Disney's Animal Kingdom and secret construction to find where I had originally read that from with no success. I know what I read and I know I'm not crazy.

Disney annouced AK in June of 1995. If you look at Google Earth there is an aerial from 2/4/1995 which shows a lot of land prep going on, but no evidence that they had started to build anything, especially not the tree.

 

[PeterAlt]

The Animal Kingdom property was far from what was already developed at WDW at the time AK was constructed, so the Tree of Life construction may not have been noticeable.

 

[danlb_2000]

The Animal Kingdom property was far from what was already developed at WDW at the time AK was constructed, so the Tree of Life construction may not have been noticeable.

The aerial view on Google is quite clear, no construction of the tree was going on in early '95.

 

[PeterAlt]

Disney annouced AK in June of 1995. If you look at Google Earth there is an aerial from 2/4/1995 which shows a lot of land prep going on, but no evidence that they had started to build anything, especially not the tree.

Hmm... And when was the first AK permit?

EDIT - Maybe I confused site work with Tree of Life construction? That's a very odd and very specific thing for me to get mixed up...

Or the date on the aerial photos is the date Google purchased it and not necessarily the date it was taken. For example, the new satellite images posted a few weeks ago were obviously taken at least several months ago as the Tangled bathroom is still under construction, but the date on the images is very recent.

 

[danlb_2000]

Hmm... And when was the first AK permit?

EDIT - Maybe I confused site work with Tree of Life construction? That's a very odd and very specific thing for me to get mixed up...

Or the date on the aerial photos is the date Google purchased it and not necessarily the date it was taken. For example, the new satellite images posted a few weeks ago were obviously taken at least several months ago as the Tangled bathroom is still under construction, but the date on the images is very recent.

The latest Google Earth picture is from 1/22/2013, and the state of the Fantasyland construction is consistent with that date.

 

[PeterAlt]

The latest Google Earth picture is from 1/22/2013, and the state of the Fantasyland construction is consistent with that date.

They just published them a few weeks ago, though. I use the iOS version which does not show dates or give access to archival data, so I'm going on your word and others too. I could go on my PC and see for myself but that requires me to turn on my PC and that's just way too much work for me... Lol

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the response! You remember that scathing report that aired on ABC during the 90's about Reedy Creek and Disney? One of the criticisms was that Disney gets away with un-permitted construction at WDW. I was wondering if this is (a) a legitimate claim and (b) if this is an archaic company practice that no longer happens. Also, I remember clearly reading at the time AK opened that the Tree of Life was being constructed for several years in secret before anyone knew Disney planned a gated theme park there. If that's true, that would be another example of un-permitted work. It's also possible they obscured it with a permit that was intentionally misleading. If you can find a Tree of Life permit issued during the time before construction, that would clear that up. An obscure permit for that time period could shed some light. No permit at all definitely will prove the claim ABC made.

@Tom could probably address the question of un-permitted work. I don't see how the tree of life could have been secretly under construction for years without someone spotting it. Components of it could have been under construction off site, which wouldn't have required a permit.

I will take a look for the AK permits and see what I can find.

If Disney tried to get away with construction work without permits 20 years ago, that's one thing. But in today's world, they wouldn't dare.

While Disney's property is governed by RCID, they're still not autonomous. They still have to answer to all higher governments, with regard to many aspects.

For example, if work is done on "real property" in Florida, a Notice of Commencement must be filed with the County - which is what is actually posted in these threads. They provide a legal record that someone is doing work for someone else, on someone else's property. If someone doesn't get paid, it helps support the Lien case. They also serve other purposes.

Actual building permits are filed on a more local basis (i.e. RCID). We don't see those. However, any project that affects water management - which is anything that requires disturbing more than a certain amount of soil or diverting watershed - is required to be filed with the Florida Water Management people. That's how a number of the major projects have been "leaked", since those plans are filed there before they go anywhere else.

Disney files Notices of Commencement to repair ice makers in kitchens in the middle of nowhere. They have no reason not to file for any other type of project. Nothing is done in secret anymore, unless you're the government (and no, RCID does not count).

As for secretly building the Tree of Life, that's not even practical. Everyone has seen the "making of" videos from the construction of DAK, and the tree is seen being actively built alongside the rest of the park. They may have been working on the components of it off-site for a period of time, but that doesn't require a building permit.

There are no conspiracies here. No secret construction activity. If it's happening on property, it's being done legitimately.

 

[Tom]

Hmm... And when was the first AK permit?

EDIT - Maybe I confused site work with Tree of Life construction? That's a very odd and very specific thing for me to get mixed up...

Or the date on the aerial photos is the date Google purchased it and not necessarily the date it was taken. For example, the new satellite images posted a few weeks ago were obviously taken at least several months ago as the Tangled bathroom is still under construction, but the date on the images is very recent.

Satellite imagery - especially for consumer/public use - is not something that is produced quickly. Updating imagery is a major undertaking, with significant surface preparation prior to any photography.

Then, once photography is done, a lot of time is spent splicing hundreds or thousands of images together, using surface-based survey markers (i.e. large crosshairs on roads). Plus - and I don't know for sure - there is likely a significant level of government involvement when producing satellite imagery.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Satellite imagery - especially for consumer/public use - is not something that is produced quickly. Updating imagery is a major undertaking, with significant surface preparation prior to any photography.

Then, once photography is done, a lot of time is spent splicing hundreds or thousands of images together, using surface-based survey markers (i.e. large crosshairs on roads). Plus - and I don't know for sure - there is likely a significant level of government involvement when producing satellite imagery.

We use satalite imagery regularly in my field of business. It's highly regulated by the government. Highly regulated.

 

[PeterAlt]

If Disney tried to get away with construction work without permits 20 years ago, that's one thing. But in today's world, they wouldn't dare.

While Disney's property is governed by RCID, they're still not autonomous. They still have to answer to all higher governments, with regard to many aspects.

For example, if work is done on "real property" in Florida, a Notice of Commencement must be filed with the County - which is what is actually posted in these threads. They provide a legal record that someone is doing work for someone else, on someone else's property. If someone doesn't get paid, it helps support the Lien case. They also serve other purposes.

Actual building permits are filed on a more local basis (i.e. RCID). We don't see those. However, any project that affects water management - which is anything that requires disturbing more than a certain amount of soil or diverting watershed - is required to be filed with the Florida Water Management people. That's how a number of the major projects have been "leaked", since those plans are filed there before they go anywhere else.

Disney files Notices of Commencement to repair ice makers in kitchens in the middle of nowhere. They have no reason not to file for any other type of project. Nothing is done in secret anymore, unless you're the government (and no, RCID does not count).

As for secretly building the Tree of Life, that's not even practical. Everyone has seen the "making of" videos from the construction of DAK, and the tree is seen being actively built alongside the rest of the park. They may have been working on the components of it off-site for a period of time, but that doesn't require a building permit.

There are no conspiracies here. No secret construction activity. If it's happening on property, it's being done legitimately.

That was very enlightening. As for the Tree of Life, your explanation is the most plausible answer. Parts were probably constructed off site at an earlier date and later taken to the site, making what I remember reading true but there was something more to it obviously than what I remembered.

Now, back to the original question. Where are the monorail permits? Can a permit for electrical work at one station cover territory beyond that one station?

 

[Tom]

That was very enlightening. As for the Tree of Life, your explanation is the most plausible answer. Parts were probably constructed off site at an earlier date and later taken to the site, making what I remember reading true but there was something more to it obviously than what I remembered.

Now, back to the original question. Where are the monorail permits? Can a permit for electrical work at one station cover territory beyond that one station?

The NoC's are supposed to describe specific areas of property where the work is taking place. Most NoC's have a survey map attached, or provide an address at minimum.

With that said, a permit for just one monorail station would not cover work done along the entire track, in theory.

However, I'm not convinced there's any monorail work being done. I've only seen photos of long distance conduit being installed along World Drive, and coincidentally the monorail track. Maybe there's more to it, but it would seem far more likely that the conduit is really for AT&T/WDW telecommunications upgrades(i.e. fiber) for which there have been actual permits filed.

 

[PeterAlt]

The NoC's are supposed to describe specific areas of property where the work is taking place. Most NoC's have a survey map attached, or provide an address at minimum.

With that said, a permit for just one monorail station would not cover work done along the entire track, in theory.

However, I'm not convinced there's any monorail work being done. I've only seen photos of long distance conduit being installed along World Drive, and coincidentally the monorail track. Maybe there's more to it, but it would seem far more likely that the conduit is really for AT&T/WDW telecommunications upgrades(i.e. fiber) for which there have been actual permits filed.

Could the AT&T permits actually be cover for the monorail upgrades?

EDIT - Meaning that AT&T may actually be involved in the upgrade with fiber optics and/or communications and/or control systems the project might require?

 

[RedDad]

If Disney tried to get away with construction work without permits 20 years ago, that's one thing. But in today's world, they wouldn't dare.

While Disney's property is governed by RCID, they're still not autonomous. They still have to answer to all higher governments, with regard to many aspects.

For example, if work is done on "real property" in Florida, a Notice of Commencement must be filed with the County - which is what is actually posted in these threads. They provide a legal record that someone is doing work for someone else, on someone else's property. If someone doesn't get paid, it helps support the Lien case. They also serve other purposes.

Actual building permits are filed on a more local basis (i.e. RCID). We don't see those. However, any project that affects water management - which is anything that requires disturbing more than a certain amount of soil or diverting watershed - is required to be filed with the Florida Water Management people. That's how a number of the major projects have been "leaked", since those plans are filed there before they go anywhere else.

Disney files Notices of Commencement to repair ice makers in kitchens in the middle of nowhere. They have no reason not to file for any other type of project. Nothing is done in secret anymore, unless you're the government (and no, RCID does not count).

As for secretly building the Tree of Life, that's not even practical. Everyone has seen the "making of" videos from the construction of DAK, and the tree is seen being actively built alongside the rest of the park. They may have been working on the components of it off-site for a period of time, but that doesn't require a building permit.

There are no conspiracies here. No secret construction activity. If it's happening on property, it's being done legitimately.

For what it's worth - I do know that WDW's facilities engineering group has to go through the regular permitting process for all permanent structures that aren't considered ride systems. That's why most of the engineers they hire for that department have to be licensed. The ride systems, however, are proprietary and obviously don't go through the permitting process. I can tell you they are very careful to comply with all building code provisions. @Tom will know *how* I know all of this...

 

[Hakunamatata]

@Tom will know *how* I know all of this...

Your a bus driver?

 

[RedDad]

Your a bus driver?

I thought we agreed to keep that on the down-low.