WDW IT Layoffs 1/30/2015

[Creathir]

What is depressing about Disney in this thread is... NextGen as technology was meant to be this core competency that differentiated the Disney product. It has all the signs of saying "technology will be the foundation of what we do and differentiator in the market..." -- and then they turn around and try to take a core principle and contract it out (and not even augment.. but replace). That just shows incredibly bad leadership in their division and higher ranks. It's the kind of stuff every one with any experience knows is the short-sighted, painful way and usually delivers a subpar product.

Now maybe these guys were all working on less essential pieces to the solution and that's why they felt these tasks could be contracted out... none of us know that angle... but if you really value the delivery (and not just the ownership) of a quality product.. you don't swap out entire teams for contractors.

This really is the crux of the problem...

I know it gets slammed as a waste, but NextGen really offers so many awesome integration opportunities. The theming can really be immersive once they know who the audience specifically is.

The laying off of their IT folks who presumably made NextGen possible and replacing with foreign workers signifies to me they are moving from an innovation stature to one of fix and repair. They may not know it fully yet, but the foreign IT folks do NOT posses the same critical thinking skills that stateside IT folks do. I believe the reason for this is simple: the folks that do are the creme of the crop (likely what is here on the US side already) and being the creme of the crop, they make their way naturally to where they can be compensated accordingly.

The folks who are "transplanted" at 2/3 the cost of who they are replacing, are worth 2/3 the cost. There will be a decrease in innovation and excellence.

Management is completely ignoring basic supply/demand principles and instead focusing completely on the bottom line.

It's sad because Disney really is way ahead of their competition with NextGen, it really was a tremendous technology and offers lots of potential.

With these moves, that progress will be slowed down, assuming of course these were workers on that system.

 

[ford91exploder]

Ya know based on some of the ways their websites have worked over the past few years I think they should have outsourced some of their management and project managers instead. Had no where to go but up

The engine from GO.COM is STILL running Disney's web presence, Once again a purchase of an internet property which utterly failed Disney thought they could simply buy a web portal and bolt their websites onto it avoiding the heavy lifting of 'what do we want our platform to do'. Just watch the url's while accessing most of Disney's web properties you will see 'go.com' as part of the URL. Disney was too lazy to even do a search and replace on the code to move it to a Disney specific domain or worse the codebase had dependencies on the name which were not fixable without refactoring the code.

Just for laughs put http://www.go.com in to your browser and watch what happens.

 

[ford91exploder]

This really is the crux of the problem...

I know it gets slammed as a waste, but NextGen really offers so many awesome integration opportunities. The theming can really be immersive once they know who the audience specifically is.

The laying off of their IT folks who presumably made NextGen possible and replacing with foreign workers signifies to me they are moving from an innovation stature to one of fix and repair. They may not know it fully yet, but the foreign IT folks do NOT posses the same critical thinking skills that stateside IT folks do. I believe the reason for this is simple: the folks that do are the creme of the crop (likely what is here on the US side already) and being the creme of the crop, they make their way naturally to where they can be compensated accordingly.

The folks who are "transplanted" at 2/3 the cost of who they are replacing, are worth 2/3 the cost. There will be a decrease in innovation and excellence.

Management is completely ignoring basic supply/demand principles and instead focusing completely on the bottom line.

It's sad because Disney really is way ahead of their competition with NextGen, it really was a tremendous technology and offers lots of potential.

With these moves, that progress will be slowed down, assuming of course these were workers on that system.

Replace that number with 20% of US salary

 

[Creathir]

Replace that number with 20% of US salary

Well when they are based overseas, yes. When thy bring them stateside, the salary has to be brought up somewhat at a minimum for cost of living issues. At least that is what I have seen.

 

[ford91exploder]

Well when they are based overseas, yes. When thy bring them stateside, the salary has to be brought up somewhat at a minimum for cost of living issues. At least that is what I have seen.

These workers are based overseas except for management.

What's usually done the workers are housed in a dormitory and transportation is provided for them to keep costs down their salaries are generally paid to their families overseas and they are given a stipend so the best part is the US gains little tax revenue from these workers

Do we really want the future to be living in a dorm in a company tow and being permitted to do only what the company thinks is appropriate because that is where we are heading.

 

[Creathir]

These workers are based overseas except for management.

What's usually done the workers are housed in a dormitory and transportation is provided for them to keep costs down their salaries are generally paid to their families overseas and they are given a stipend so the best part is the US gains little tax revenue from these workers

Do we really want the future to be living in a dorm in a company tow and being permitted to do only what the company thinks is appropriate because that is where we are heading.

I was under the impression the workers were permanently stationed stateside. With HCL, we have both types of workers: on premise and overseas.

It really is amazing that with the labor laws we have in this country surrounding competitive wage, that this is allowed... If they are housed in dormitories as you have indicated, this is tantamount to indentured servitude almost...

Quite disgusting.

 

[ford91exploder]

I was under the impression the workers were permanently stationed stateside. With HCL, we have both types of workers: on premise and overseas.

It really is amazing that with the labor laws we have in this country surrounding competitive wage, that this is allowed... If they are housed in dormitories as you have indicated, this is tantamount to indentured servitude almost...

Quite disgusting.

You see lots of examples of this in the tech field, The way prevailing wage laws are circumvented is the workers are based overseas and work for the company HQ and they are rotated through the US office and company housing is provided for "Convenience".

Think about it this is no different than if you went to your companies overseas office to work on a short term project your pay would not change the difference of course is you are being paid a first world wage.

This is really about a race to the bottom and it needs to be stopped in it's tracks.

 

[Creathir]

You see lots of examples of this in the tech field, The way prevailing wage laws are circumvented is the workers are based overseas and work for the company HQ and they are rotated through the US office and company housing is provided for "Convenience".

Think about it this is no different than if you went to your companies overseas office to work on a short term project your pay would not change the difference of course is you are being paid a first world wage.

This is really about a race to the bottom and it needs to be stopped in it's tracks.

100% agree. Folks like Mr. Facebook who are perusing expanding the H1B are concerned with nothing but their stock price and how much play money they have.

I am all for people working hard, being innovative, and making lots of money, but not at the expense of fellow human beings. Not when hundreds/thousands of families are destroyed just to increase the profit margin. Why not COMPETE? Why not make a better product which people WANT to spend more money on? Instead it's all about decreasing expenditures at all costs.

Here is another tidbit: I know of a company which let go 10% of the organization a few years back due to the financial crisis. Totally understand that. However, they then proceeded to give everyone from the top down who had been eligible for their bonus plan their annual bonus.

Lay people off so they could meet their profit numbers to maximize the bonus.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

Just remember as you scroll this site on your smartphones(it's basically all brands), the hell that those who make them endure:

http://www.ibtimes.com/foxconn-suic...actory-leap-dormitory-buildings-one-confirmed

 

[yedliW]

Ya know based on some of the ways their websites have worked over the past few years I think they should have outsourced some of their management and project managers instead. Had no where to go but up

The WDW website is pretty bad.. Yesterday, I was trying to help my SIL buy tickets for an upcoming trip.. we are going for 8 days, but every time she tried to add the 8 day ticket to her cart, it defaulted back to the 4 day.. we eventually had to do it via the mobile app.. it also took me several tries to put in my CC# to buy the MM for the trip.. seems that for a company that does everything they can to take our money.. they would make it easier for us to give it to them..

 

[rob0519]

The engine from GO.COM is STILL running Disney's web presence, Once again a purchase of an internet property which utterly failed Disney thought they could simply buy a web portal and bolt their websites onto it avoiding the heavy lifting of 'what do we want our platform to do'. Just watch the url's while accessing most of Disney's web properties you will see 'go.com' as part of the URL. Disney was too lazy to even do a search and replace on the code to move it to a Disney specific domain or worse the codebase had dependencies on the name which were not fixable without refactoring the code.

Just for laughs put http://www.go.com in to your browser and watch what happens.

Wow! That is an amazing website. I just bookmarked it for future reference.

 

[rob0519]

100% agree. Folks like Mr. Facebook who are perusing expanding the H1B are concerned with nothing but their stock price and how much play money they have.

I am all for people working hard, being innovative, and making lots of money, but not at the expense of fellow human beings. Not when hundreds/thousands of families are destroyed just to increase the profit margin. Why not COMPETE? Why not make a better product which people WANT to spend more money on? Instead it's all about decreasing expenditures at all costs.

Here is another tidbit: I know of a company which let go 10% of the organization a few years back due to the financial crisis. Totally understand that. However, they then proceeded to give everyone from the top down who had been eligible for their bonus plan their annual bonus.

Lay people off so they could meet their profit numbers to maximize the bonus.

Absolutely disgusting.

Upper management always protects itself. In financially based IT RIFs, it's not unusual to lose say 600-900 IT workers and maybe 24 managers. Oddly enough, there will be no layoffs at the Director or VP levels.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The WDW website is pretty bad.. Yesterday, I was trying to help my SIL buy tickets for an upcoming trip.. we are going for 8 days, but every time she tried to add the 8 day ticket to her cart, it defaulted back to the 4 day.. we eventually had to do it via the mobile app.. it also took me several tries to put in my CC# to buy the MM for the trip.. seems that for a company that does everything they can to take our money.. they would make it easier for us to give it to them..

Yeah they probably don't even realize how many problems people have trying to purchase something and give them money from those ridiciously unstable sites

 

[flynnibus]

A HR/Headhunter type person stated the core problem much more elegantly than I did. In this context they are talking about interviews and salaries... but the root topic is the same. This nails it

---
"The unfortunate fact of life is that most people and most employers are tire-kickers. They won’t spend what’s necessary on the product, service or hire that they want. But they will keep looking, usually until they find a less costly solution — and by that point, they convince themselves it’s sufficient. Employers view new hires as an expense, not an investment. An expense costs you. A good investment generates a good return. It seems few employers look for returns — they’re just trying to fill jobs with bodies (that don’t cost much). Then they wonder why their business is mediocre if not failing."
---
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/ask-headhunter-always-ask-salary-range-agree-interview-job/

It's this same kind of thinking... Expense vs Investment with IT that leads to bonehead decisions that ultimately make technology a BURDEN for your organization instead of an enabler. Its this mindset that leads people to think 'whats the cheapest way to get this done' instead of thinking 'whats the most effective way to get the result I want'. The 'expense' mindset doesn't make the OUTPUT the highest priority nor the grander impact of the move.

This same kind of thinking can also be extrapolated to how people manage other aspects of their business... like Disney and upkeep, etc. Are things EXPENSES or are they INVESTMENTS. Think about that and see how you apply that type of thinking in your own lives.

 

[wdisney9000]

A HR/Headhunter type person stated the core problem much more elegantly than I did. In this context they are talking about interviews and salaries... but the root topic is the same. This nails it

---
"The unfortunate fact of life is that most people and most employers are tire-kickers. They won’t spend what’s necessary on the product, service or hire that they want. But they will keep looking, usually until they find a less costly solution — and by that point, they convince themselves it’s sufficient. Employers view new hires as an expense, not an investment. An expense costs you. A good investment generates a good return. It seems few employers look for returns — they’re just trying to fill jobs with bodies (that don’t cost much). Then they wonder why their business is mediocre if not failing."
---
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/ask-headhunter-always-ask-salary-range-agree-interview-job/

It's this same kind of thinking... Expense vs Investment with IT that leads to bonehead decisions that ultimately make technology a BURDEN for your organization instead of an enabler. Its this mindset that leads people to think 'whats the cheapest way to get this done' instead of thinking 'whats the most effective way to get the result I want'. The 'expense' mindset doesn't make the OUTPUT the highest priority nor the grander impact of the move.

This same kind of thinking can also be extrapolated to how people manage other aspects of their business... like Disney and upkeep, etc. Are things EXPENSES or are they INVESTMENTS. Think about that and see how you apply that type of thinking in your own lives.

Its (kinda) like and old saying I heard once. "Quality products usually cost more, so buying the most expensive one will cost you less in the long run".

Granted, that was in reference to auto parts, lol. But I think it applies to an IT type situation as well.

 

[flynnibus]

Its (kinda) like and old saying I heard once. "Quality products usually cost more, so buying the most expensive one will cost you less in the long run".

Granted, that was in reference to auto parts, lol. But I think it applies to an IT type situation as well.

I think it's different... that adage is about buying quality and doing things right the first time. What I'm talking about here is above that.. it's not about "buying quality brake pads vs cheap ones".. it would be like 'why having a reliable car is important to my life'. The idea that transportation isn't just a necessity - but an thought that having reliable, on-demand transportation may actually advance me and my career.

Companies that look at IT as just a 'necessity' because everyone else has this stuff will never see it as a way to advance themselves. Contrast with a organization that looks at IT as a way to better their product/organization. The former will ultimately drive the IT org into being mediocre and a burden they look to minimize... while the latter will make decisions based on best impact on improving the company as a whole through IT.

Expense vs Investment. Don't get lost in the absolute $$s.. you can throw money away easy enough. The concept is about how you approach and think about the asset.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think it's different... that adage is about buying quality and doing things right the first time. What I'm talking about here is above that.. it's not about "buying quality brake pads vs cheap ones".. it would be like 'why having a reliable car is important to my life'. The idea that transportation isn't just a necessity - but an thought that having reliable, on-demand transportation may actually advance me and my career.

Companies that look at IT as just a 'necessity' because everyone else has this stuff will never see it as a way to advance themselves. Contrast with a organization that looks at IT as a way to better their product/organization. The former will ultimately drive the IT org into being mediocre and a burden they look to minimize... while the latter will make decisions based on best impact on improving the company as a whole through IT.

Expense vs Investment. Don't get lost in the absolute $$s.. you can throw money away easy enough. The concept is about how you approach and think about the asset.

Exactly so, IT too often is looked upon as an 'Expense' where if properly viewed IT can be the 'secret sauce' which makes your business stand out ahead of the competitors, Good people cost more but generally you need fewer of the really good ones to create a top level service or product. When you want to win a track meet you want ONE guy who can jump 9 feet not 9 guys who can jump one foot. Too often HR hires the 9 guys because the one guy who can jump 9 feet is 'too expensive'.

 

[John]

One of the most interesting threads on the Magic......love this stuff........Are you listening Disney?

 

[yedliW]

Exactly so, IT too often is looked upon as an 'Expense' where if properly viewed IT can be the 'secret sauce' which makes your business stand out ahead of the competitors, Good people cost more but generally you need fewer of the really good ones to create a top level service or product. When you want to win a track meet you want ONE guy who can jump 9 feet not 9 guys who can jump one foot. Too often HR hires the 9 guys because the one guy who can jump 9 feet is 'too expensive'.

The problem you run in to is that it can be very difficult to show the value on paper of a department that is a cost center rather than a profit center.. I have spent a good part of my career in call centers at varying levels, and that is the same thing.. it is hard to quantify the value of it, and thus is often outsourced, lowering the quality of the service you get.

IT is in a different boat than most call centers since you can track the expenses vs cost of having an in-house team, but cost centers are cost centers..

 

[flynnibus]

IT is in a different boat than most call centers since you can track the expenses vs cost of having an in-house team, but cost centers are cost centers..

Ergo the problem... They should step back and say "why do we have a call center in the first place?" . If they are doing it just because its expected of them.. and that's the best they can come up with they'll never do anything but the minimum. If they can't focus on how it makes the business better, and not make THAT the metric instead of 'necessary cost'... dollars will always win.