Waterfront District "Hyperion Wharf" Set to be added to Pleasure Island

[niteobsrvr]

That is why I asked if Disney ever tried direct service between the Downtown Disney districts. At the appropriate times, run busses straight between the hotels and a single Downtown Disney district. It would be a bit more complicated to operate, but it would utilize the biggest advantage of busses, flexibility.

That is done currently on a very limited level. Happens a lot with All Stars and Pop Century. However, to make this happen on a larger bases would require the addition of more busses to the fleet and more drivers. In fact, if you wanted to run the two stops with their own separate bus service as mentioned, you would have to double the number of busses and drivers available at DTD for about 6 hours every night. The situation also would not allow for guest to get ona bus at the Marketplace and ride over to Pleasure Island with out the addition of of at least two to three more busses just to make that shuttle trip.

That is not something that is likely to happen as no one wants assets sitting around unused for the remainder of the day. In the current operation for the parks, there are buses that get parked in the afternoon for 4 to 5 hours because the guest traffic isnt high enough to utilize them effectively. And with the remaining buses that are up and running, you will find empty or underutlized trips throughout the day. Empty buses as a rule are not providing guests or Disney with good value for the money spent.

Somwhere in this thread I think it was mentioned that a trolley line could be used to cross the property. So long as guests can learn to not get hit by it, I think it would be a great solution to shuttle people across the DTD property while providing an interchange point with a central bus stop.

 

[jt04]

Ah, The Edison! That's my favorite place to have a cocktail in Los Angeles, ever. I'm so glad you had a chance to go!

The Edison is another great example of how outside companies and trendy businesses have not only risen to a Disney level of showmanship to provide goods or services, in this case a cocktail lounge. But in many cases, outside companies have far surpassed the level of showmanship and uniqueness that Disney is providing with its latest stuff to its clientele on their own property.

There's stuff like The Edison happening in big cities around the country, and then Disney is creating mid-level shopping malls that aren't cutting edge in any way and putting out fluffy press releases claiming more corporate chains in a mall is going to be "Magical!" and "World Class!" and "The stuff precious Memories are made of!". :hurl:

At some point you've just got to say the emporer has no clothes.

I don't know. I am really impressed with the new DCA and especially the Carsland add. Judging by the crowds others agree. The new park in China should be interesting.

I agree with you that these new Disney-fied inspired venues popping up in cities is good but to equate that with Disney losing its way is a stretch IMO. It is a bit apples and oranges.

 

[unkadug]

I don't know. I am really impressed with the new DCA and especially the Carsland add. Judging by the crowds others agree. The new park in China should be interesting.

I agree with you that these new Disney-fied inspired venues popping up in cities is good but to equate that with Disney losing its way is a stretch IMO. It is a bit apples and oranges.

We're not saying Disney has lost it's way...just TDO has lost their way.

 

[TP2000]

I don't know. I am really impressed with the new DCA and especially the Carsland add. Judging by the crowds others agree. The new park in China should be interesting.

I agree with you that these new Disney-fied inspired venues popping up in cities is good but to equate that with Disney losing its way is a stretch IMO. It is a bit apples and oranges.

Well, I probably should have qualified my reference to "Disney" as "Disney World".

The stuff coming out of Anaheim the past few years has been pretty top-notch, even aside from the Billion dollar remake of DCA. Just look at the big difference in the Tangled meet n' greets between Magic Kingdom and Disneyland, or the different way TDA is bringing TRON into the Anaheim parks versus the way TDO is bringing TRON into the Orlando parks. Rides, maintenance, parades, entertainment schedules, park updates, etc.; there's clearly a very different mindset between Anaheim and Orlando lately.

Which bring us back to DTD and the Hyperion Wharf announcement. I do like the direction they are headed with Hyperion Wharf; it's upscale-ish, themed-ish, and definitely an improvement on the abandoned 1980's warehouses that are there now. But the TDO management just seems to be taking Hyperion Wharf to about the 75% or 80% level, they aren't pushing the envelope by any stretch, nor are they reaching the current high standards set in some other tourist locales that have been referenced in this thread.

If they are only trying to impress folks living in small towns and sleepy suburbs where the local Wal-Mart big box, Macy's mall, Olive Garden or Spaghetti Factory is the barometer by which you judge a shopping afternoon or night out on the town, then yes Hyperion Wharf is going to be a big WOW! for those nice folks.

But if you are visiting WDW in 2013 from any big city in the world, or are someone who has been to a big city in the last 10 years and stumbled upon hip and ultra-themed cocktail lounges like The Edison or done some shopping with the locals riding the trolley at hyper-themed malls like The Grove or The Americana, then Hyperion Wharf isn't going to be that impressive or unique.

I guess the question is... Whose wallets is TDO management going after with their current showmanship standards? And when exactly did they stop pushing the envelope and setting the standard?

 

[Mouse Detective]

The only place it seems that Disney is being original & experimental is on the new cruise ships.

This is an excellent point that is constantly overlooked. The two new Disney ships are going to have so many excellent features. And what is particularly intriguing is that all Disney ships have a certain designated area that are for adults-only with various night clubs. Why is it that Disney recognizes the need for adults to have a place of their own on a ship yet refuses to acknowledge the same thing in their Florida theme park?

 

[imagineer boy]

This is an excellent point that is constantly overlooked. The two new Disney ships are going to have so many excellent features. And what is particularly intriguing is that all Disney ships have a certain designated area that are for adults-only with various night clubs. Why is it that Disney recognizes the need for adults to have a place of their own on a ship yet refuses to acknowledge the same thing in their Florida theme park?

Excelent point!!!! How come the cruise ships can have adults only places while WDW can't?

I think the whole closing of PI excuse "to make it more family friendly" is just insane. Like WDW isn't family friendly enough already? Sheesh.

 

[Lee]

I think the whole closing of PI excuse "to make it more family friendly" is just insane.

And not entirely honest.
It just sounds better than them saying "We can make more money by theming the outside of the buildings and letting third-party operators handle the insides."
(Not that they have very many third-parties signed up at this point...)

 

[unkadug]

And not entirely honest.
It just sounds better than them saying "We can make more money by theming the outside of the buildings and letting third-party operators handle the insides."
(Not that they have very many third-parties signed up at this point...)

*Waits for JT to call you a liar* :lookaroun

 

[lazyboy97o]

And not entirely honest.
It just sounds better than them saying "We can make more money by theming the outside of the buildings and letting third-party operators handle the insides."
(Not that they have very many third-parties signed up at this point...)

Don't forget the part about an outside design firm to come up with this idea in the first place. I wonder how much Schussler Creative has made off of this idea.

 

[TP2000]

It just sounds better than them saying "We can make more money by theming the outside of the buildings and letting third-party operators handle the insides."
(Not that they have very many third-parties signed up at this point...)

There's an important angle that hasn't been mentioned much, if at all.

Who exactly is going in to all these new spaces? :veryconfu

Disney hasn't announced anyone yet, they just merely announced that they were giving the existing area a new name and a new exterior appearance. But nothing has been mentioned for the interiors or who the tenants might be.

The only new things really announced here was a remodeling of the 13 year old Lego store over in the Marketplace, and a new snack bar at the AMC theater. Woohoo!

I wonder if they rolled out this press announcement to try and drum up business for their plans? They've no doubt been shopping this Hyperion Wharf concept around to third party businesses for quite a while now, with no one signing a lease agreement yet. Maybe they are hoping that if they went for a big press announcement they'd get more interest from restauranteurs and shopkeepers?

Obviously no one has signed up yet, or they would have been included in the announcement. That's troubling for TDO.

 

[Lee]

I wonder if they rolled out this press announcement to try and drum up business for their plans? They've no doubt been shopping this Hyperion Wharf concept around to third party businesses for quite a while now, with no one signing a lease agreement yet. Maybe they are hoping that if they went for a big press announcement they'd get more interest from restauranteurs and shopkeepers?

Ah-ha....the penny drops...
I have been hearing that the announcement of the Wharf was nothing but a smokescreen, some pretty bait to serve as a visual sales pitch to potential third-parties.
Did nobody think it odd how all the details that were released seemed to focus on Marketplace or Westside?

Honestly, other than that classic boat-themed restaurant, I can't get a solid lead on anything being lined up to occupy all those bold, new buildings. Just vague "dining" or "retail" plans. Yawn.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Obviously no one has signed up yet, or they would have been included in the announcement. That's troubling for TDO.

1. The concept art shows the restaurant Silk Road in the Mannequins spot. I have to think that because they used the name and logo of a real restaurant, it's going to be there.
2. Save Pleasure Island reported on Schussler Creative's Mahogany Bay Classic Old Boats and Great Food going into a new building where RRBC now stands.
3. Someone somewhere said Ridemakerz was moving from the Virgin Records building over to PI.

But you're right, that leaves a LOT of other space to fill.

 

[TP2000]

Ah-ha....the penny drops...
I have been hearing that the announcement of the Wharf was nothing but a smokescreen, some pretty bait to serve as a visual sales pitch to potential third-parties.
Did nobody think it odd how all the details that were released seemed to focus on Marketplace or Westside?

Honestly, other than that classic boat-themed restaurant, I can't get a solid lead on anything being lined up to occupy all those bold, new buildings. Just vague "dining" or "retail" plans. Yawn.

Yeah, that's what I figured. They haven't been able to get any contracts signed for the past year, so they went public with some splashy yet very vague concept art hoping it would lure potential tenants.

When you think about it, it was a press release about nothing; A remodeled Lego store, a new movie theater snack bar, and lots of pretty lights on empty buildings. :lol:

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

From the beginning the expansion sounds a lot like the publicity technique used for Flamingo Crossings - infrastructure but no solid tenants. Ah well no good ideas ever die at TDO's hands, they just remain stagnant and vacant until a third-party participant pays the rent. Then they die.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The only new things really announced here was a remodeling of the 13 year old Lego store over in the Marketplace, and a new snack bar at the AMC theater. Woohoo!

The AMC work also needs to be put into perspective. This is not the result of a special AMC-Disney collaboration to make the theaters a unique Disney destination. This is AMC moving forwards with its own larger plans that include similar offerings being rolled out across the country as it tries to keep up with smaller chains that are eating away at its market share by originating these more unique moviegoing experiences.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

The AMC work also needs to be put into perspective. This is not the result of a special AMC-Disney collaboration to make the theaters a unique Disney destination. This is AMC moving forwards with its own larger plans that include similar offerings being rolled out across the country as it tries to keep up with smaller chains that are eating away at its market share by originating these more unique moviegoing experiences.

When you think about this, it's kind of interesting. On most of the DTD front, Disney is depending on third parties like AMC not only to lease space but also to charge ahead with innovation that Disney can then tout in its own promotions.

I'm not convinced this is a sign that the company has lost its way, but it does make for an interesting contrast to what PI was all about. (And I'm still optimistic about the Imagineering concepts for HW, even if the substance of that area will have to be filled by non-Disney entities.)

 

[SeaCastle]

Ah-ha....the penny drops...
I have been hearing that the announcement of the Wharf was nothing but a smokescreen, some pretty bait to serve as a visual sales pitch to potential third-parties.
Did nobody think it odd how all the details that were released seemed to focus on Marketplace or Westside?

Honestly, other than that classic boat-themed restaurant, I can't get a solid lead on anything being lined up to occupy all those bold, new buildings. Just vague "dining" or "retail" plans. Yawn.

If this was indeed a smokescreen, why would they announce it over the Disney Parks Blog, a social media outlet mostly for fans? Wouldn't they publicize it more if they were trying to attract possible-tenants? I can't see how a few pieces of concept art and some vague descriptions released over a blog written for Disney park fans would attract the attention of a third party vendor, or maybe it's just me. :shrug:

 

[lazyboy97o]

When you think about this, it's kind of interesting. On most of the DTD front, Disney is depending on third parties like AMC not only to lease space but also to charge ahead with innovation that Disney can then tout in its own promotions.

I'm not convinced this is a sign that the company has lost its way, but it does make for an interesting contrast to what PI was all about. (And I'm still optimistic about the Imagineering concepts for HW, even if the substance of that area will have to be filled by non-Disney entities.)

Eventually this model is going to cost Disney money. A new idea that works is something a company will want to spread. Disney is going to have to pay (through something like exclusivity agreements, helping fund development, or special terms on rent) to ensure that the innovation premiers at Downtown Disney and stays there at least for some decent length of time. It is also a business model than can much more easily be copied.

 

[jt04]

We're not saying Disney has lost it's way...just TDO has lost their way.

TDO lost a lot of say if not all of it when it comes to large capital expendatures when the reorganization happened. We hashed through all of this long before the FLE, HW, Animation Inn and ST2 were officially announced. Going back to bashing the scaled down TDO seems misguided at best.

Well, I probably should have qualified my reference to "Disney" as "Disney World".

The stuff coming out of Anaheim the past few years has been pretty top-notch, even aside from the Billion dollar remake of DCA. Just look at the big difference in the Tangled meet n' greets between Magic Kingdom and Disneyland, or the different way TDA is bringing TRON into the Anaheim parks versus the way TDO is bringing TRON into the Orlando parks. Rides, maintenance, parades, entertainment schedules, park updates, etc.; there's clearly a very different mindset between Anaheim and Orlando lately.

Which bring us back to DTD and the Hyperion Wharf announcement. I do like the direction they are headed with Hyperion Wharf; it's upscale-ish, themed-ish, and definitely an improvement on the abandoned 1980's warehouses that are there now. But the TDO management just seems to be taking Hyperion Wharf to about the 75% or 80% level, they aren't pushing the envelope by any stretch, nor are they reaching the current high standards set in some other tourist locales that have been referenced in this thread.

If they are only trying to impress folks living in small towns and sleepy suburbs where the local Wal-Mart big box, Macy's mall, Olive Garden or Spaghetti Factory is the barometer by which you judge a shopping afternoon or night out on the town, then yes Hyperion Wharf is going to be a big WOW! for those nice folks.

But if you are visiting WDW in 2013 from any big city in the world, or are someone who has been to a big city in the last 10 years and stumbled upon hip and ultra-themed cocktail lounges like The Edison or done some shopping with the locals riding the trolley at hyper-themed malls like The Grove or The Americana, then Hyperion Wharf isn't going to be that impressive or unique.

I guess the question is... Whose wallets is TDO management going after with their current showmanship standards? And when exactly did they stop pushing the envelope and setting the standard?

There's an important angle that hasn't been mentioned much, if at all.

Who exactly is going in to all these new spaces? :veryconfu

Disney hasn't announced anyone yet, they just merely announced that they were giving the existing area a new name and a new exterior appearance. But nothing has been mentioned for the interiors or who the tenants might be.

The only new things really announced here was a remodeling of the 13 year old Lego store over in the Marketplace, and a new snack bar at the AMC theater. Woohoo!

I wonder if they rolled out this press announcement to try and drum up business for their plans? They've no doubt been shopping this Hyperion Wharf concept around to third party businesses for quite a while now, with no one signing a lease agreement yet. Maybe they are hoping that if they went for a big press announcement they'd get more interest from restauranteurs and shopkeepers?

Obviously no one has signed up yet, or they would have been included in the announcement. That's troubling for TDO.

Funny, this is not at all in agreement with what Raven has told us. We have seen no details of the way HW will merge into the WestEnd except for the basic concept. AMC is involved with many of these type centers around the country (granted not on the scale DtD will be) and they have a lot of experience with it. I think you will find AMC and other tenants have had a lot of input.

I also notice you don't compare DL's DtD to WDW's. Or mention any of the new adds coming to WDW or even recent adds.

Anyway, this is the same stuff that was discussed here a couple years ago in a very similar manner. It turned out to be groundless then. It just seems odd folks would return to it.

I don't think Disney is going to be put on the defensive and make announcements in response to these recycled theories. They must just be laughing themselves to death reading the same old spin and the repeated attempts at it though.

DtD is getting awesome. And that is going to make some people go bat..........crazy. :lol: And that will make it even more fun. So, when does deconstruction start? I can't wait! :sohappy: HW will be amazing.

 

[TP2000]

I also notice you don't compare DL's DtD to WDW's. Or mention any of the new adds coming to WDW or even recent adds.

Two rather different properties that really only share a trademarked name.

Disneyland's DTD is quite literally a small mall linking the two theme parks and the three Disney hotels. It's a pleasant and tasteful yet unspectacular space, although the Anaheim property managers did an amazing job of filling vacant space when a handful of national chains went bankrupt and bailed suddenly after the financial panic of late '08 (Illuminations, Dept. 56, Club Libby Lu, etc.).

But the Anaheim DTD is not nearly on the same scale as WDW's DTD is, nor does it serve the same purpose, nor does it try to.

Anaheim's DTD just sort of chugs along as a winding, narrow retail/dining space linking the theme parks and hotels of Disneyland. It doesn't have a single vacant storefront, and it has maintained a nice mix of stores and restaurants over the past decade. It's popular with locals for the nice theaters, House of Blues, and some decent restaurants, and it's popular with the tourists for all of the same and as a pleasant way to walk to and from the hotel to Disneyland and do some resort-style shopping.

Downtown Disney, Disneyland Resort

There were rumors a few years ago it would be expanded out into the surface parking lots north of ESPN Zone. But those rumors died when the recession set in hard and fast.