CBOMB
Active Member
Never work.:ROFLOL:
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Waterfront District "Hyperion Wharf" Set to be added to Pleasure Island
- Thread starter WDWFigment
- Start date
inluvwithbeast
New Member
So. When you put it like that, I come to realize that we have something like this in Bricktown of Oklahoma City. It's a club called CityWalk, and they have 7 clubs in one, all with a different offering. Sure, they don't throw a New Years Eve party every night, but they bing in mainstream entertainment like the Ying Yang Twins. So shoot me, but apparently this concept is out there. In Oklahoma no less.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
That is my whole point. All we have is art and not much more. Does it look nice? Sure, but that does not really mean much.
jt04, the reason no other places have a DisneyQuest is because that venture was deemed a failure and the project was cancelled where it was being developed and shuttered where it had opened.
Mammymouse
Well-Known Member
Thanks RandySavage for your mention of the Arcade and Providence Place. It sounds like you are familiar with RI and my observation on those two you remarked on is this. My first job was at the AMICA building in 1966, just down the end of the block from the Arcade. I agree it is a beautiful old two story walk through building with an ever changing collection of small shoppes and cafes, and has been under appreciated over the years. But while it connects and spans the space between two main streets, it is barely, I would guess, 100 feet long, and surrounded by Banks and lawyer office buildings.
The Prov. Place Mall is across the street from the State capitol building (the capitol is such an outstanding domed architecture structure) and has had its problems. Its owner has been in bankruptcy and Nordstrom, the main anchor store, did not renew its lease and left. The interior of the Mall has not been well maintained and it is your average looking 3 story building that has had issues with stabbings and gangs. I agree the Riverwalk area did look nice this year with hanging flower baskets and such, and eventually it does connect to College Hill, which the artists of the School of Design and Brown Univ. may appreciate. But it is along briskly traveled streets and does not incorporate into the Mall. Because they are independent buildings mixed into an old city I'm finding it hard to agree these are in the same league with Downtown Disney. I am with you on the shopping thing though. Only do it when I have to. Now the other areas mentioned in VT, CT and Mass, I just have never heard of any, and if there are some I am obviously wrong. I think of Mystic Aquarium as a tourist area and it is a ticketed attraction with some vintage shops. The Shipyard area is an authentic village on the water complete with whaling ships, but it is aways down the road from the Aquarium and not within walking distance. So I don't think of Mystic as a close comparison either. Just my opinion though. By the way we gave my family's old cider press to one of the Mystic areas attractions called Clydes Cider Mill.
Boy I'm getting too long winded here so I will shut up now. But your out of the box thinking is what I was asking for in my last sentence. I think we all agree a new energetic and cohesive idea is what we all want for Downtown Disney. :animwink:
The Prov. Place Mall is across the street from the State capitol building (the capitol is such an outstanding domed architecture structure) and has had its problems. Its owner has been in bankruptcy and Nordstrom, the main anchor store, did not renew its lease and left. The interior of the Mall has not been well maintained and it is your average looking 3 story building that has had issues with stabbings and gangs. I agree the Riverwalk area did look nice this year with hanging flower baskets and such, and eventually it does connect to College Hill, which the artists of the School of Design and Brown Univ. may appreciate. But it is along briskly traveled streets and does not incorporate into the Mall. Because they are independent buildings mixed into an old city I'm finding it hard to agree these are in the same league with Downtown Disney. I am with you on the shopping thing though. Only do it when I have to. Now the other areas mentioned in VT, CT and Mass, I just have never heard of any, and if there are some I am obviously wrong. I think of Mystic Aquarium as a tourist area and it is a ticketed attraction with some vintage shops. The Shipyard area is an authentic village on the water complete with whaling ships, but it is aways down the road from the Aquarium and not within walking distance. So I don't think of Mystic as a close comparison either. Just my opinion though. By the way we gave my family's old cider press to one of the Mystic areas attractions called Clydes Cider Mill.
Boy I'm getting too long winded here so I will shut up now. But your out of the box thinking is what I was asking for in my last sentence. I think we all agree a new energetic and cohesive idea is what we all want for Downtown Disney. :animwink:
GenerationX
Well-Known Member
So, it's going to be an upscale, unique mix of Klingon entertainment, then?
"Hyperion" Wharf
"Hyperion" Wharf
trr1
Well-Known Member
So, it's going to be an upscale, unique mix of Klingon entertainment, then?
"Hyperion" Wharf
maybe they will sell you a plate of Gagh
disnyfan89
Well-Known Member
Im sorry but everyone really just needs to move on. While everyone is entitled to their opinions there just gets to be a point where enough is enough. No amount of complaining is going to bring PI back.
PI closed because Disney no longer was interested in the market that PI held. They decided that ALL DAY shopping and dinning experience that had a LARGER appeal that caters to EVERYONE was far more worth their time and money than night clubs.
Yes Disney should be innovative and constantly ahead of everyone but they don't have to be ALL THE TIME. A nicely themed shopping district that will convey a unique Disney atmosphere is perfectly fine. It works on the west coast and we already have more unique entertainment venues than them.
Im sorry that you all loved the adventures club and are sad that it's gone. Im sorry that you all feel cheated by Disney. But you have to give them a chance. Sure, maybe this isn't what you want right now. But maybe, just maybe you will be surprised in the end when everything is said and done. We've only scratched the surface of the future.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
And this whole post is your opinion. Unless you were at the meeting when the decision was made, you really do not know the motives behind their actions.
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
Meh. Every town in America has bars (ok, there are some dry counties still I believe). Every small-mid level town has dance clubs. Comedy Clubs are not unique either. And maybe it's just me, but pretending to celebrate New Years Eve on some random Tuesday in September never really got me going...
The only thing that PI had that was unique was a very fun and interactive dinner (ok not dinner, bar?) theater. Like most people have said, this could be done anywhere on property and function well, like Hoop-De-Doo does. Take out AC and all you had was a string of bars/clubs.
I went to PI once, poked my head in everywhere, settled in the AC and enjoyed it greatly. When it let out for the night, popped into the nearest club, that was pretty much empty, looked around for 5 minutes, and decided it was time to head back. But, I'll admit, I'm not a dance-club kind of guy.
The PI experience was great, for a very targeted age range, for a few hours a night, with a demo that are not Disney's target audience. If I were Disney, would I target the 20-30 something crowd, or the 30+ crowd, who more likely have more income, make up a vast majority of the people who visit, and probably would rather have a nice meal and stroll around for an evening snacking, shopping, and watching some street performances for 5 seconds before they move along?
I know folks will say that the two can co-exist, the rest of DTD could cater to the eat/stroll/shop crowd leaving PI for the younger, but I know that the 30-something husband/father that is me now would rather not bump into the 20-something drunken version of me and my friends, I was obnoxious back then :lol:.
It's the location that PI exists in that makes it a big road-block, and no form of transportation between Marketplace and West End is going to work. When someone is strolling and enjoying their time, they are much more likely to continue along and transition to the new areas without even realizing it. The moment I have to stop and wait for a trolley/bus/boat to take me to some other area that may or may not have something I want to look at, that is when I'm going to turn around and head back. Making DTD one cohesive experience has to be their #1 goal here. Getting people to say "Hmm... what are all those lights, lets take a quick look" and continue walking from one end of DTD to the other, that is what is going to make a successful DTD experience.
And every state in the country has amusement parks, yet somehow we think of Disney differently.
Bzzzt. The most unique and important aspect of PI was that it was for adults. That's the only reason I went. Very little children to be seen. Sure, I liked the AC just like everyone, but I pretty much club hopped.
Which brings us to the essential two part question of this entire thread (and the HW project itself) ...
1. Is this concept likely to entice more people to visit the WDW Resort (or spend longer stays) than would of if it didn't exist (or if something different existed in the same area - an "is the money and space being used wisely" question)? and ...
2. Personally, for each of us individually, is this concept likely to be somewhere that we (individually) will visit regularly when visiting WDW?
For question two, I can say I'll probably go there once (to see what it's all about) and then spend my evenings in the parks for the rest of Hyperion Wharf's existence. Unless, of course, as I stated earlier in the thread there is some sort of nighttime spectacle (light show, water show) that I consider to be can't miss - that would draw me there. I make this personal prediction because this is my approach to the rest of DTD - I stopped going to the Marketplace years ago (the only real reason I went was because I was going to PI anyway, before the PI admission gates being removed) and I only went to Westside once. When I'm on vacation (particularly at Disney rates), I'm not interested in going to the mall. That's my personal opinion.
Nightclubs with adults and a refuge from kids (particularly in Disney vacation)? That's something that had (and still has) personal value for me. A lot of value actually. I don't like other peoples' children, but I like Disney parks - sue me. I don't stop other people from seeking what they like; if anybody wants to go to a character meal ... have fun. Just as long as the things I like to do don't start systematically disappearing so that everything in the resort is 9 different but similar versions of the things you like to do. At that point I feel perfectly justified voicing displeasure.
The answer to the first question is surely up for debate. How many people think like I do? How many people want a day where all they do is shop in the middle of their vacation? How many locals will ditch City Walk for Hyperion Wharf (I still hate that name the more I hear it, but I digress ...)? What third party vendors will fill the spaces? And will Disney be able to lock them into long term leases so there isn't constant turnover? Is a highly themed wharf enough of a draw on it's own (in other words, is that as exciting as say Adventureland's theming or even one of the WS countries?)?
All important questions to be discussed, but if someone's attitude is "Hey, you can't express the view point that HW is not a place you will want to visit" or "Hey, you can't give reasons why you think the HW concept might not be the best idea" then I think you are out of luck, because this is a Disney message board and expressing view points (both positive and negative) is what people do.
jt04
Well-Known Member
The people doing the most complaining are the ones most upset about the closing of PI and specifically the AC. I predicted a year that no matter what Disney announced they would find fault with it. And that is exactly what is happening. It was easily predictable and terribly boring now that it is happening.
I'll judge the success of the reimagining by the crowds, And for all of those who say they are staying away because PI is gone, I say good, because it might make it possible to find a parking space.
:wave:
LOL - you've been predicting for 3 years that a "bold, new vision" was coming around the corner. And you still think there's a gigantic world-wide media conspiracy preventing stories of Pleasure Island drunk drivers from being published on the internet. And, despite all evidence to the contrary, you still think the Pixie Hollow on the original FLE concept art is being built. And that there is going to be a utilidor-level portion of FLE that hasn't been revealed yet.
On an internet forum with 70k members, you have the least credibility. If a person could have less-than-zero credibility, you'd have it. Let me put it in visual form ...
WDWMagic.com Credibility Scale:
1. Lee
2. Martin
3-69,999. Everyone else
70,000. jt04
You're just happy they are finally promoting something (anything), in hopes we'll stop mocking you for being delusional about Pleasure Island. They could put a juggler, a mime, and a hot dog cart there and you'd act like they were building the Taj Mahal.
:wave:
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Yet you and others refuse to see the project as something different. There is a fanatical determination to point out that this project is no different than any other mall in the country.
Krack, have you ever considered that maybe WDW isn't the place for you if you don't like kids?
Kids just didn't magically start going to WDW after your sweet spot of 1994.
Whether true or not, you coming across as having a very strong dislike of children. It's really like going to Olive Garden when you don't like pasta. Sure there are other things on the menu, but you're getting away from the reason to go there.
Was PI extending stays? I'm not sure any of us have that information, but logic would dictate that it was probably a no.
The clubs where generally a place to go after the parks close. There would be no reason to extend your stay.
However, to play along with your illogical charade, it could. By providing DTD with a more cohesive theme from end to end, you make the whole area enticing for people to experience.
By increasing the amount of shops and restaurants you are requiring more time for people to experience the whole thing. Instead of Marketplace being the only viable shopping area you have extended it and easily connected it to West Side.
I don't think anyone has every extended their stay just to experience DTD or PI.
For my family, if the restaurants are unique and unavailable to us where we live and the shops are interesting, yes. Since I can't tell any of that from the press release or the drawings, I am content to wait until the product is finished. This differs from you and the rest of the naysayers is that you have already made up your mind.
If a nightclub is truly what you want, there are still options. Atlantic Dance, Jellyrolls, and Rix Lounge. However, I'm sure you will come up with reasons why these don't fit your needs.
If the questions were all that were discuss that would be a different story. If it were a true discussion it would be a different story.
All that has really gone on in this thread is a boiling down of the concept to its basic parts and then comparing those parts to a mall, as you have done.
It has gotten so bad that the poster who brought us some inside information is declining to post here any more.
That's not a discussion, that's b****ing and moaning about something that's not built yet.
While it was a bad decision for WDW to handle the closure of PI the way they did and they could have arguably "saved" the clubs with a serious investment, they are re-purposing this space with a different concept.
The success of this concept depends on several factors we simply don't have access to at this point.
Whether you personally like it or not has no bearing on the success or failure of Hyperion Wharf. The very small percentage of vacationer that make up the membership of this website are in no way a reflection of the general traveling public.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Krack has finally cracked. :lol:
I have no doubt that year after year, WDW has been telling me they don't really want my money; a little more each year. That's why I spend more time at DLR now. But make no mistake, WDW used to be a more "adult" place and they used to market to a much broader range of ages. Personal likes or dislikes aside, as a shareholder, it's shortsighted and dumb to brand yourself as "unless you have kids, you probably don't really want to vacation here" - it is going to cost them over an extended period of time.
And kids I can deal with. It's modern day parents that I have a healthy disdain for. The problem is, where ever kids happen to be, there are usually parents around.
Along with Krack, I agree that your predictions are as good as the paper you write them on... "Bold new vision"... HA! This "Bold new vision" of PI is about as stale as Citywalk...
People find fault with it, because it isn't a "bold new vision", it's the same old same old... a disneyfied strip mall... They haven't done anything but create another themed shopping area... If this is really a bold new vision, then I'm Walt Disney...
EthylCooper
Active Member
I don't want to get in the middle of any arguments...this thread is starting to get scary...but my family extended every stay by a day after I started going to the AC. We used to do Animal Kingdom on the last day and drive straight out afterward, but we added an extra hotel night so that we could do another night of AC, then do some final shopping at Marketplace and the outlet mall the next morning before leaving town. We upped our average stay by another day, since we weren't getting to the parks as early anymore. ^_^ Also, I've only made 2 visits since PI closed and felt like I was pretty much done after this last time. Normally I'd have made at least 6 trips in that amount of time.
As I've already stated, AC was the final straw, but it's really the overall loss of magic and show that's been going on throughout the parks that did it. Even if the AC never returned, I think I would...if I felt like Disney had begun offering something special again, an immersive world of magic like it was before around 2005 or so. But this last trip all I saw was rides and construction walls, with nothing behind them that felt worth waiting for.
Once again, it seems to be a touchy subject and I don't want to upset anyone, but there are at least some of us who spent extra time and money in town because of PI.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Sure, and I mean this in no offense, but there will always be outliers. Just like folks like you that added an extra day for AC, there are probably people who add an extra day for the Water Mice, and there are probably people who add just an extra day for DTD.
I probably should have been a little clearer that a vast majority probably don't extend their stay exclusively to spend a day at DTD or in the past, at PI.
I'm not sure that is a discussion we can accurately have. None of us would have more than personal anecdotes to support one theory or another. :wave: