Water pipe break behind Splash

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
I did not say the ride needs "help". I said the story is antiquated and not relavent to the ride's success. People are drawn to the ride system. What I am saying is that a properly imagineered story would be just as popular and wait times would be just as lengthy.
JT, I'm not sure what point you are making here when you say the story is "antiquated." I think you just mean the plot is based on Song of the South which is an old property that's not well known. So what? The story in the ride is self-explanatory and works great. Compare something like the new Little Mermaid ride, which tries to shoehorn the plot of an entire movie into a short ride. If you don't already know the plot coming in, the ride makes no sense.
However, the difference would be that if the new story was based on a popular franchise (from past, present or planned) it could move merchandise and therefore justify any upgrade to the attraction. A popular enough franchise would make the ride even more popular than it is today.
JT, I appreciate that you are one of the world's few optimists. It would nice if your faith in the company was justified, but I don't think it will be. In truth, if they could easily change the theme over to something that would sell lots of merchandise, they wouldn't see that as a way to plus the ride. They would just make the easy change, count their money, and say: mission accomplished. Look at El Rio del Tiempo. The ride needed some love, some new technology, a new vision instead of just lots and lots of screens. They didn't add Donald & Co. as a way of paying for all of those things--they added Donald & Co. as a way of avoiding paying for those things.
And I notice you do not address the fact that the theme is really a stretch for that section of FL. FL is supposed to be set in the west not the south. It is a theming contradiction that should be fixed.
Splash is not a good thematic fit for Frontierland--can't argue that. But it's a pretty good visual fit. And in either category it's miles better than the Speedway over in Tomorrowland.
And there are many other reasons the theme should go. Keeping it based on a song Disney could use somewhere else is not enough reason to keep the current configuration. IMO.
Splash Mountain is, in current form, a great, popular ride that works on multiple levels, and, sadly, it's one of the more recent additions to the park. Certainly it seems to be an upkeep troublemaker, but I don't see how it makes sense to promote making wholesale changes when there's so much in the park that's older, not as good, and not as popular.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
One could argue that Tom Sawyer Island doesn't fit with a western theme either since it's not a story about the west. The book mentions Tom Sawyer specifically lives in Missouri. And its sequel Huckleberry Finn takes place in multiple states along the Mississippi River. Keep in mind that this is something Walt Disney himself intended for Frontierland.

Not to mention the Riverboat and even Davy Crockett. Davy Crockett specifically was born and raised in Tennessee, starting his political career there. And while some of his life led him to other states like Texas, much of it was spent in eastern states (this includes the TV show from Disney). The keelboat race specifically in the TV series (which was eventually to become the attraction) was a race along the Mississippi River.

There are many horrible blemishes on the parks to be addressing before we even get into any sort of debate about Splash Mountain. Epcot comes to mind, and parts of Tomorrowland. In its show-ready form the ride is STILL very fun, and it doesn't even look that out of place just from the facade itself. While Song of the South isn't a very well known film, the characters in it are moreso. And like someone said, most people could probably recognize the Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah song. The ride remains an incredibly well loved and charming musical adventure through the cartoon segments of the movie, it's a very well-designed ride regardless of the ride system used. I can think of few rides remaining at WDW (if any) that still have so many intricately designed sets and massive quantities of animatronic figures.

Again, we need to fix what IS broken first AND add stuff. The park has too few rides of this scale as it stands now. Just closing already great rides to replace it with something else isn't necessarily what I'd call decent expansion. And with Disney's track record lately, odds are very good whatever replaced it wouldn't be anywhere near that scale (i'd imagine tons of cuts in the sets and animatronics, and an over-reliance on video screens).
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
JT, I'm not sure what point you are making here when you say the story is "antiquated." I think you just mean the plot is based on Song of the South which is an old property that's not well known. So what? The story in the ride is self-explanatory and works great. Compare something like the new Little Mermaid ride, which tries to shoehorn the plot of an entire movie into a short ride. If you don't already know the plot coming in, the ride makes no sense.

JT, I appreciate that you are one of the world's few optimists. It would nice if your faith in the company was justified, but I don't think it will be. In truth, if they could easily change the theme over to something that would sell lots of merchandise, they wouldn't see that as a way to plus the ride. They would just make the easy change, count their money, and say: mission accomplished. Look at El Rio del Tiempo. The ride needed some love, some new technology, a new vision instead of just lots and lots of screens. They didn't add Donald & Co. as a way of paying for all of those things--they added Donald & Co. as a way of avoiding paying for those things.

Splash is not a good thematic fit for Frontierland--can't argue that. But it's a pretty good visual fit. And in either category it's miles better than the Speedway over in Tomorrowland.

Splash Mountain is, in current form, a great, popular ride that works on multiple levels, and, sadly, it's one of the more recent additions to the park. Certainly it seems to be an upkeep troublemaker, but I don't see how it makes sense to promote making wholesale changes when there's so much in the park that's older, not as good, and not as popular.

Except that all the other attractions you mention do not have the baggage of SM. I won't argue that there are other needs in the park but I am just of the opinion Disney could do well by retheming Splash for all the reasons I mentioned. We will just have to agree to disagree.

One could argue that Tom Sawyer Island doesn't fit with a western theme either since it's not a story about the west. The book mentions Tom Sawyer specifically lives in Missouri. And its sequel Huckleberry Finn takes place in multiple states along the Mississippi River. Keep in mind that this is something Walt Disney himself intended for Frontierland.

Not to mention the Riverboat and even Davy Crockett. Davy Crockett specifically was born and raised in Tennessee, starting his political career there. And while some of his life led him to other states like Texas, much of it was spent in eastern states (this includes the TV show from Disney). The keelboat race specifically in the TV series (which was eventually to become the attraction) was a race along the Mississippi River.

There are many horrible blemishes on the parks to be addressing before we even get into any sort of debate about Splash Mountain. Epcot comes to mind, and parts of Tomorrowland. In its show-ready form the ride is STILL very fun, and it doesn't even look that out of place just from the facade itself. While Song of the South isn't a very well known film, the characters in it are moreso. And like someone said, most people could probably recognize the Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah song. The ride remains an incredibly well loved and charming musical adventure through the cartoon segments of the movie, it's a very well-designed ride regardless of the ride system used. I can think of few rides remaining at WDW (if any) that still have so many intricately designed sets and massive quantities of animatronic figures.

Again, we need to fix what IS broken first AND add stuff. The park has too few rides of this scale as it stands now. Just closing already great rides to replace it with something else isn't necessarily what I'd call decent expansion. And with Disney's track record lately, odds are very good whatever replaced it wouldn't be anywhere near that scale (i'd imagine tons of cuts in the sets and animatronics, and an over-reliance on video screens).

Well said. I am of the opinion the island could be given 2 identities. One facing LS could be themed to PATF utilizing sightlines that allow the riverboat to be seen but little else. The PATF elements could be worked into the landscape of the island so they do not conflict with LS. Then if you transition to the other side of the island, as viewed from FL it could keep the current western theme. The island is large enough that this illusion could work very well. IMO.

It is important I think to see the product coming from WDI in the last 3 or 4 years and not get hung up on what was in the pipeline that was utilized just to get something new in the parks which TSMM largely was. And even then it remains hugely popular. Imagine a rethemed Splash with RSR type animatronics. Or even the type animatronic you see in the new BATB attraction.
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
Speaking of the ride and it's theme and the story; anyone know where I can get a copy of "Song of The South" on DVD or Blu Ray.

It's almost like Disney refuses to even acknowledge the existence of the movie. Yet they have no problem pulling out tons of it for the ride.
Check ebay or go to a decent size comic convention and get a bootleg. About the only way I know of. Since they did away with the Disney Treasures line, I can't see a scenario will they will issue it anytime soon. The only way I thought they might was if there was an intro by Leonard Maltin.
 

psukardi

Well-Known Member
Check ebay or go to a decent size comic convention and get a bootleg. About the only way I know of. Since they did away with the Disney Treasures line, I can't see a scenario will they will issue it anytime soon. The only way I thought they might was if there was an intro by Leonard Maltin.

=( I wish Disney would just re-release it. I've seen it, it's not THAT bad.
 

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
The ride, yes some bugs need to be fixed but for the most part splash is an awesome ride that doesn't need to be rethemed! Everyone know te story of brer rabbit even if they never have seen song of the south. When I was younger they would play that short on Disney channel all the time as it was my fav! I have never seen dog of the south but have always wanted too. And th reason you will never see it is because it's about 2 children hanging out with a slave on their plantantion as he tells them stories that are seen as cartoon shorts throughout the film. Disney will never release this again!
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Splash Mountain is more based upon the Uncle Remus stories than it is on Song of the South (which was merely Disney's take on part of the Uncle Remus stories.)

Why does everyone want to rewrite history?
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
Splash Mountain is more based upon the Uncle Remus stories than it is on Song of the South (which was merely Disney's take on part of the Uncle Remus stories.)

Why does everyone want to rewrite history?
What amazed me is that they actually sold copies of "The Complete Tales of Uncle Remus" in the Briar Patch for a short period of time. It was the original versions with the original vernacular. I was shocked to see it in the park and that it last more than a couple of weeks. Granted, they were hidden away in a bit of a forgotten corner.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Splash Mountain is more based upon the Uncle Remus stories than it is on Song of the South (which was merely Disney's take on part of the Uncle Remus stories.)

Why does everyone want to rewrite history?

This still does not change the fact that it is not a franchise that guests relate to anymore. I am not saying the ride is not fun and well done but I know that the vast majority of guests really have no idea what they are looking at. They do not pick up on the 'inside jokes' and references.

My thinking is eventually Pixar or Disney films will produce a popular series based on the old west. If Brother Bear had of been a bigger franchise that might have worked. If Lone Ranger lives up to the buzz and becomes another multi-film franchise that could work. Anything along these lines could revitalize the attraction for another quarter century. And sell tons of merchandise.
 

RobBlock

Member
This still does not change the fact that it is not a franchise that guests relate to anymore.

I know that the vast majority of guests really have no idea what they are looking at.

They do not pick up on the 'inside jokes' and references.

And exactly how do you "know" these facts?
 

mollydtt

Member
I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks that the "theme" doesn't relate to guests any longer.
The music is wonderful, and I actually think that Song of the South is a pretty good film.
I wouldn't change a thing about Splash Mountain. (Well, except for maybe making sure the broken features get fixed more often....)
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
And exactly how do you "know" these facts?

The franchise is not relevent in today's culture. Same thing with Tom Sawyer. Mr Toad. HISTA. Several movies featured in the GMR. Bette Midler. Eastern Airlines. Walter Cronkite. RCA. Power Rangers. I could go on and on.
 

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
The franchise is not relevent in today's culture. Same thing with Tom Sawyer. Mr Toad. HISTA. Several movies featured in the GMR. Bette Midler. Eastern Airlines. Walter Cronkite. RCA. Power Rangers. I could go on and on.
I'm just going to be lazy and repost one of my responses from another thread...

Attractions are not better or worse based on the youth or age of their subject material. From viewing a ridethrough of Radiator Springs Racers, for example, I think it looks great, and so does my daughter, but neither of us have seen the film nor care to. It's a great ride because of the story the ride itself contains. Adventures are had from being transported to places in the imagination and the source isn't important. To quote Kingsley Amis:
Relevant subjects or settings or attitudes or theories are not more blessed than the irrelevant sort, and in some fields irrelevance or apparent irrelevance can be a virtue. There is not much to be said for the kind of person who recommends a children's tale or book for its supposed relevance to the child's experience.
Also, JT, if, as you claim, most people going to SM don't know the backstory, how can it have "baggage"?
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
The franchise is not relevent in today's culture. Same thing with Tom Sawyer. Mr Toad. HISTA. Several movies featured in the GMR. Bette Midler. Eastern Airlines. Walter Cronkite. RCA. Power Rangers. I could go on and on.

Neither are Peter Pan, Snow White, the Swiss Family Robinson, the 1930's adventuring in the Jungle Cruise, the Polynesian exotica of the Tiki Room, Lilo and Stitch, interplanetary rocket travel, the Americana reflected in the railroad...
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Yet again...a thread about a real issue at WDW derailed by nonsensical drivel and a fabricated issue from the mind of our JT04.

There is no issue with the story of Splash Mountain. The ride is consistently ranked as one of the resort's best by guests.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I'm just going to be lazy and repost one of my responses from another thread...

Attractions are not better or worse based on the youth or age of their subject material. From viewing a ridethrough of Radiator Springs Racers, for example, I think it looks great, and so does my daughter, but neither of us have seen the film nor care to. It's a great ride because of the story the ride itself contains. Adventures are had from being transported to places in the imagination and the source isn't important. To quote Kingsley Amis:

Also, JT, if, as you claim, most people going to SM don't know the backstory, how can it have "baggage"?

I am mainly refering to a generational split and the franchise, like other that have gone to Yesterland, do not have a strong future with audiences. For older audiences some see baggage understanably.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Yet again...a thread about a real issue at WDW derailed by nonsensical drivel and a fabricated issue from the mind of our JT04.

There is no issue with the story of Splash Mountain. The ride is consistently ranked as one of the resort's best by guests.


As I said, they are drawn to the exciting ride system. Similar to the popular Atlantis at Sea World. The story is secondary.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
As I said, they are drawn to the exciting ride system. Similar to the popular Atlantis at Sea World. The story is secondary.

Who cares what draws them there? If people didn't like the story and the characters represented, it would come up as a problem with the attraction.

It's never come up in any consistent metering, therefore this is a non-issue.
 

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