Was "Journey Into *Your* Imagination" really worse than the current version?

[the-reason14]

What I don't like about the current version is how 90% of the ride you are facing sideways instead of the original position that you board. This is obviously to keep your attention to one side, the only side that has stuff to see. I liked the 2nd version better because even though it was garbage compared to the original, it felt less cheap because it went straight and gave you the opportunity to look on either side. I mean, it's one thing for rides like Nemo and Horizons that are built to go in one direction, but it's another when it's obvious that it's forced like in the current imagination.

 

[enshogirl]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I rode V2 I had no idea what was in store. I think I still have night terrors over the train sequence. V3 is much lighter, but still cannot compare to the original.

I still miss Horizons and World of Motion, so what do I know. Haha.

 

[Tom Morrow]

The original was a walk-on when it closed. As was Horizons.

The mists of time have made them "classics". But that was hardly the case back in their so called "glory days".

The Imagination Pavilion needs to be gutted & re-imagined completely.

Yeah but Spaceship Earth and Nemo are usually walk-ons too, yet they are high ridership. They're high capacity omnimovers.

What I don't like about the current version is how 90% of the ride you are facing sideways instead of the original position that you board. This is obviously to keep your attention to one side, the only side that has stuff to see. I liked the 2nd version better because even though it was garbage compared to the original, it felt less cheap because it went straight and gave you the opportunity to look on either side. I mean, it's one thing for rides like Nemo and Horizons that are built to go in one direction, but it's another when it's obvious that it's forced like in the current imagination.

Hmm, I never thought of that, actually. In the original JII, the car only turned for the opening turntable sequence, if I recall correctly. The current version's scenes are very, very bare-bones. On the other hand, I think the vehicles rotating adds a little bit of excitement to it.

 

[Bairstow]

Having ridden all three versions...

The current version is better than v2, but only just.
It's less empty and disturbingly quiet now, but one thing I have to give to the second version is while it didn't utilize Figment, it also didn't ruin his character.
Former Dreamfinder Ron Schneider, who would know a thing or two about Figment having spent several years with his hand crammed up his backside, summed up the Figment character as being the embodiment of childlike curiosity, if not of the spirit of the EPCOT park itself, then certainly what EPCOT should mean to children.

The current version reduces him to an annoying, magical pest.

Theory: The CGI Figment in the current ride is actually Waldo, The Spirit of 3D in disguise.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Even the original JII Figment?

I have to confess, that I don't remember the old JII Figment and the old ride very much. I did it only once in 1984 and a second time in 1991 and for some reasons I forgot, I didn't videotape the old ride in 1991. But at least I can remember that I was not annoyed by the first Figment.

 

[Figments Friend]

Well, I do have to state this first. Obviously, the second version of the Imagination Pavilion, Journey into Your Imagination, was a pathetic shadow of the original attraction. The initial shock of going from the original, highly imaginative, creative, longer, whimsical ride to the simplistic, scaled back, Figment-less version made people claim it was the worst ride ever made.

But was it really worse than the current version? I say, no, it wasn't, it was better. The current version was nothing but a rush job response to all the complaints of removing Dreamfinder and Figment from the ride. However, the Figment in this version is not fun and endearing, he's just kind of annoying.

The previous ride was at least somewhat inspired and didn't come across as kid-centric.

My theory is that if the original version had never existed, people would prefer the previous version to the current version.

Discuss!

interesting theory of yours.
IF the *Original* never existed....would folks prefer the 2nd version to the current 3rd installment.
I have experienced all three in person many times, so will share my thoughts on that theory.

In my personal opinion, and based on knowledge of your typical Average Guest and their expectations, i would say no, they would enjoy the 3rd more.

Why -
Between the 2nd and 3rd versions only, the 2nd had little *eye candy* and sets to look at.
The lack of any character, or characters, that could be seen....and not just heard...also puts the 2nd version to a disadvantage with Guest Average.
Guests want to SEE things before them...when they ride this type of Attraction ( dark ride ).
Yes, the 2nd lacked such sets and visual elements because it*s concept was to *imagine* things in the dark through suggestive audio narration, which was the prime driver of the story.

Some would argue it was more a budget cop-out, and a grander visual effects presentation was original planned.
Debate aside.... that was the primary story goal of the 2nd version - Get riders *imagining* during the ride and show them ( fleetingly ) what they come up with.
The problem was because it lacked any real charm or memorable moments, Guests basically traveled through a set-less experience.
Guest Average came away from it rather underwhelmed, to put it mildly.

The 3rd version overlay would have been seen as a huge improvement, in my opinion, if they only ever knew the dark and empty appearing 2nd version.
The added sets, colorful lighting, music, and the visual representations of in-ride characters were all a plus when compared to the visually empty show rooms of the 2nd.
The 3rd version gave Guests *something to look at*.
Add into this the monitor screens -video elements, and again, Guest Average would find it much more visually stimulating a ride experience.

Figment being added into the 3rd version was also not necessarily because of * fan demand*.
It was primarily because the Merchandise department wanted him back in the Attraction so they could sell more plush, shirts, and the like.
During the 2nd versions brief operating, new Figment related merch was still being made and sold despite the character being removed from the Pavilion. The small shop was full of such items, which was odd since the character had been wiped clean from the EPCOT scene.
I saw the merch spread in person at that time...and bought several pieces despite my absolute disgust in the 2nd overlay.
The Merchandising department wanted to sell product to more then just *original fans*...as new Guests had no clue who this character was and were thus not buying.
The request was made to add Figment back into the Attraction in a larger role of the experience to help drive sales. The fact that *original fans* were outraged and demanded he return encouraged Disney to rethink his removal, but the main drive was to sell more Figment stuff.

Having said all that....i have to say i am not a fan of either the 2nd or 3rd version of the Imagination *ride*.
I re-read some of what i posted above and cannot believe i am actually saying positive things about the 3rd, current version! Compared to the 2nd version, it IS a improvement...but does not in ANY form compare to the utter brilliance of the one and only *Original*.

The Original, as i have said many times here on this Forum, is and was a absolute masterpiece of themed entertainment design.
From the overall concept, design execution, color palette, and uniquely staged show scenes, it was a true Classic in every sense of the word.
Add into that already stellar mix two interesting and charming characters, and a stunning musical score, and it is no surprise why this Attraction is one of the most sorely missed experiences at WDW.
It was visually exciting, emotionally empowering, and wonderfully inspiring.
A quality classification all it*s own.

No video can capture what the experience was actually like.
Only those who actually rode along in the Original...in person...will ever really fully understand the scope and spectacle it truly was.

Absolutely spectacular on SO many levels.
There will never be anything like it built again.

 

[Figments Friend]

Well... actually you know what, after watching them back to back, cancel this thread. I guess the 3rd/current version is still slightly better. I like the concept of the 2nd version, but the execution is so dull. However I like the third version for having better flow, show scenes, and theme music, not for the inclusion of Figment.

The sad thing is, the 2nd version was supposed to include a LOT more as far as effects and overall build execution.

There were some grand plans that were pitched originally as the *replacement* to the Original.
Several of the planned effects included to show Guests what they were *imagining* were supposed to feature cutting edge technology for that time ( late 1990s ).
It was being pushed to Kodak as being the next big thing in themed shows tech-wise, and they were enticed by the prospect.

The emphasis on that high-tech angle worked, and Kodak was convinced it had a really exciting follow up to the popular Original. It also provided a answer to the high maintenance costs they had concerns with keeping the Original running.
All sounded very promising....and exciting .....but guess what happened..

Yep...*budget trims*.
Uh huh....big time.

So the project moved ahead, but with barely a budget to work with.

Thus we ended up with the empty space that was the loathed 2nd version.

 

[Figments Friend]

I disagree with the idea that Journey Into Imagination would have been dated. I absolutely understand why someone would say that, but you could say the same for almost half of the rides in WDW. Small World, Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion. Dated, but can easily stand the test of time with the help of refreshing additions and a respect for the initial intent of the ride. Side rant to justify my reasoning: Horizons was a fantastic ride but really was quite dated and its purpose was obsolete after a certain amount of time. Again, maybe a fantastic redesign would have helped them. But Journey Into Imagination was designed to be pretty timeless. And the steampunk influences in the ride are even more relevant today!

Agree, and i was just about to ask why some here feel the Original had become *dated*.

Part of it*s brilliance was that is was designed to be timeless like in the tradition of classic WED-WDI Attractions.
In my opinion, the Original even today shows no *age* or *timestamp* except for one effect ( laser imaging in the *Performing Arts* segment ).
The ride as it was could still be in operation today and still be enjoyed by today*s Guests with only a few slight modifications and upgrades, not with the settings or story, but mostly simple operational upgrades.
Original operational equipment would likely need to be updated to today*s needs, such as lighting to LEDs, film projectors to digital units, etc.
All of those items could have been easily switched out to keep the Original Attraction going as it was.
No scene changes, no revamping the story...just the timeless entity is was and still is.

I am actually quite interested in hearing from others about what they feel was *dated* about the Original JII Attraction.
Some examples of this?
Examples of such *dated* content on the ride itself, not the post-show Image Works or other Pavilion offerings.
I know this ride like the back of my hand, and cannot think of anything that really *dates* it.

Not trying to cause trouble.....just honestly curious as to what those said elements are that others feel cause it to feel *dated* that i am just not seeing.

 

[FerretAfros]

Having ridden all 3 versions myself, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment and admit that I really enjoyed the 2nd version and always thought that the 3rd version was a big step backwards from it (though of course the original was better than either)

Although it couldn't compare to the original, the 2nd version had a clear vision and everything seemed to support that. The whole pavilion's redo into the Imagination Institute (originally seen with HISTA) worked for me, and the open house was a logical fit. The only thing that didn't work for me was the new Image Works, which only had a couple exhibits (though with several locations of each) in the uninspiring lower level

Although many people complained that the ride's opening insulted guests' lack of imagination, I thought that it set up the ride's purpose. It also made the finale effect, where the scanners explode, make more sense because guests already knew what the device was when they entered that scene. While traveling through the Institute, it was clear that our purpose was to use our Imagination to discover new things; now it seems like we're simply wandering from one place to the next without any real rhyme or reason. Additionally, the current version seems to stop more, giving you time to look around and notice the lack of scenery, where the 2nd version seemed to keep you moving from one scene to the next better

The brighter tone of the 3rd version also takes away from several effects, IMO. The train scene has been completely neutered by shining lights and having Figment joke throughout; it may have been too intense for some kids, but the completely dark room was one of the most convincing effects that I've ever seen. The upside-down house is far less impressive now, since it looks like everything is just a plastic prop; in its original incarnation, it was clear that you were under an actual truck. And the exploding finale effect no longer has any impact in a bright yellow room, where you can easily see the equipment moving during the effect (and can still see it from its 'hidden' location once the lights turn on; the 2nd version's dark room filled with countless screens actually seemed like a huge space and seamlessly transitioned into the starfield unload room, rather than the abrupt change we see now.

I fully recognize that the 2nd version of the ride wasn't perfect, but it had a plan and went for it. If they had to completely redo the ride, at least they did it all the way. The 3rd version just seems like a poorly-done overlay on that idea, similar to the Tiki Room Under New Management; it feels more like version 2.1 rather than 3.0. If and when they ever get around to doing another full redo, I hope that they pull up the false floor in the Image Works and reconnect the old track (it's still under there), for a longer ride time

 

[Haymarket2008]

I think that the Imagination Institute theming is as white washed and charmless as you can get in Disney World. I don't remember the original JII as much as I would like to, but the current ride and theming is a disgrace. It puts a pit in my stomach whenever I go by the pavilion. I WANT to ride so I can experience Figment in front of me, but the ride is atrocious and I can't wait to get off once I'm on it. And especially knowing what the ride used it be from memory and videos, it is pathetic.

 

[Goofyernmost]

No video can capture what the experience was actually like.
Only those who actually rode along in the Original...in person...will ever really fully understand the scope and spectacle it truly was.

Absolutely spectacular on SO many levels.
There will never be anything like it built again.

Quoted for absolute truth. Until you are sitting there slack jawed, wondering how we can be moving and the scene stays with us all the while watching the show and singing the song. That, my friends, was EPCOT. Some have talked about finding a way to get a sinkhole under it so they have an excuse to demo it, but, the building is iconic. I do wish they would put something in it to live up to its possibilities, but, until they do I will be happy with V3. And please, please, before they get rid of V3 at least deep six EO.

Agree, and i was just about to ask why some here feel the Original had become *dated*.

Part of it*s brilliance was that is was designed to be timeless like in the tradition of classic WED-WDI Attractions.
In my opinion, the Original even today shows no *age* or *timestamp* except for one effect ( laser imaging in the *Performing Arts* segment ).
The ride as it was could still be in operation today and still be enjoyed by today*s Guests with only a few slight modifications and upgrades, not with the settings or story, but mostly simple operational upgrades.
Original operational equipment would likely need to be updated to today*s needs, such as lighting to LEDs, film projectors to digital units, etc.
All of those items could have been easily switched out to keep the Original Attraction going as it was.
No scene changes, no revamping the story...just the timeless entity is was and still is.

I am actually quite interested in hearing from others about what they feel was *dated* about the Original JII Attraction.
Some examples of this?
Examples of such *dated* content on the ride itself, not the post-show Image Works or other Pavilion offerings.
I know this ride like the back of my hand, and cannot think of anything that really *dates* it.

Not trying to cause trouble.....just honestly curious as to what those said elements are that others feel cause it to feel *dated* that i am just not seeing.

I agree with you. What can be dated about it. It's imagination. Imagination doesn't have to be in the 21st century to be as modern as any thought. It was just old and seen to many times by to many people. They just got tired of it and due to some technical advances, felt it was not up to date.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

The origional was old but timeless like Haunted Mansion and Small World. All it needed was some TLC. As for Image Works, they could have found a home for it somewhere. They wasted so much money upgrading it, now the attendance is lower then ever. It would have done better being left alone, half broken with no upgrade.

 

[Figments Friend]

I agree with you.
What can be dated about it. It's imagination. Imagination doesn't have to be in the 21st century to be as modern as any thought.
It was just old and seen to many times by to many people.
They just got tired of it and due to some technical advances, felt it was not up to date.

When the topic of why the 'Original' was closed and gutted is brought up, a lot of folks seem to think it was because the Attraction 'lost it's audience', or was 'not popular with Guests anymore'.
I have said it before, and feel a need to address it again - that was NOT the case!

It was closed for two main reasons -
The costs involved in keeping it maintained and running was seen as too expensive by certain people.
And -
Ops purposely sabotaged the loading process of the Attraction to drive Guests away to the new 3D film, thus creating 'proof' the expensive ride could be replaced with a cheaper alternative.

Another reason that should be mentioned was that the 'turntable' revolving staging area had always had some difficulties in lining up correctly with the ride vehicles. The two elements did not always match up neatly and some operational problems would sometimes occur.

The 'Original' was the #1 Attraction at EPCOT next to SSE from the time it opened until before the fabled 'roped off queue' was added.
Certain people within the Company wanted to close the Attraction simply because they felt it was a too expensive to keep running.

You have to remember that at this time, the late 90s, there was a big push within the Company to 'streamline' Park Operations and reign in what was deemed 'unnecessary' expenses.
We all remember what happened out at Disneyland during that dark time...and WDW saw the pinch as well - both the 20K Subs at WDW and 'Horizons' was shuttered around that same time period.

Attractions that had a huge overhead in maintenance and operating costs were targeted for possible closure. In two cases i am aware of, Ops purposely manipulated the numbers to make it appear as if said Attractions had 'fell out of favor' with Guests. JII was one such case, 20K was the other.
In both cases things were done to purposely make it appear as if the ridership had dropped off..thus creating the necessary 'proof' to close said expensive-to-maintain Attraction.
It was a malicious act with the sole purpose of just saving the Company a few bucks.
Absolutely outrageous when one looks back at what happened.


In JII's case, it has to be said that at that time ( 1997/1998 ) Kodak was concerned with the high maintenance costs of keeping the almost 15 year old elaborate Attraction running in good order. So they were indeed looking into alternatives.

When the 'Imagination Institute' concept was introduced with the 'Honey, I Shrunk The Audience' 3D film, the writing was on the wall.
The explosive popularity of the then new film made certain people within the Disney organization see this as the perfect opportunity to finally get rid of what in there eyes was a financial money pit - the 'Original' JII Attraction.

Guests flocked to the Imagination Pavilion to see the new 3D film...but back then, the Pavilion was laid out so that you would ride the Attraction first and then unload to see the 3D film down the hall in a separate area.
Ops saw there chance to create a diversion within the normal layout by installing a rope across the loading area to the ride...the 'rope of doom'.
This now caused Guests to bypass the ride altogether, and just move onto seeing the film.
It instantly created the 'proof' to certain parties that the Original Attraction had dropped ridership and was no longer popular, while at the same time show artificially inflated attendance numbers for the new 3D film.

Ops 'proved' to higher ups that the JII ride was now 'old hat' in comparison to the 'new hip' 3D film....and moves were made to insure it's destruction and replacement.

So it was sinister internal politics and the incredible short sighteness of Corporate mentality that killed off the Attraction, NOT Guests.
Guests LOVED it.
They STILL love it 30+ years later..!

 

[GrammieBee]

We have been on all three versions. The first incarnation was definitely the best of the lot, although it was not one of our personal favorite rides in Future World. However, it was well done, we did enjoy it and found Figment to be an endearing charactor.

Comparing reincarnationa #2 and #3 is like comparing apples and oranges. They are very different. We found #2 to be interesting, but we sorely missed Figment and the lightness of the first version.

Incarnation #3 brings back Figment, but innstead of being endearing, he is a pest. Plus, to us, the concept of this version, while brighter, is a little too simplistic. Dumbed down, as it were.

Unfortunately, the whole pavillion is but a ghost of its former self. A dumbed down ride, no "Honey I shrunk the Audience" and no second floor "playground" to let loose your imagination.

 

[ttalovebug]

Yes. It was absolutely the worst.

I rode version 2 on my first trip to Epcot. I wasn't biased in the favor of the first version because I had neither ridden nor heard of it, I came in with completely fresh eyes. And it was so pointless, cheap and bare-bones that it actually gave me and my family second-hand embarrassment. And that blinding flash just got on my nerves.
Obviously, version 3 still elicits that uncomfortable second-hand embarrassment. But there's slightly more effort involved, more things to look at, and a catchy song. I mean, it's not better by much, and it's still an absolute disgrace.

But you have to consider that version 3 was a salvage job of an existing ride, how good could they have made it? Version 2, on the other hand-- you gut an attraction to build a brand new one and THAT is what you come up with? I think JIYI is the single most infuriating, brainless and incomprehensible refurb in WDW history. No wonder Eisner reacted the way he did after riding it.