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Voyage of the Little Mermaid is done, won't reopen with the parks.

I would've preferred for Rat to be in a properly-built Place de Remy in part of the space where TSL is now. I think TSL would've been better as a Pixar Land with Rat and a Monster's Inc. Ride, and I think it would've been better to connect it to the already extant Pixar Place. But such is the way of things. TSL really does look cheap. It's disappointing.

As for Mermaid I just want to know when the thing will die already, jeez.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
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agree to disagree
The point still stands that an objectively "better" attraction that is not better-suited for an area is not "better" overall - The Haunted Mansion would be the best attraction in Animation Courtyard if you built it there . . . doesn't mean you should ever, ever build it there.

Having ridden Ratatouille, and having not ridden Beauty and the Beast (obviously), I do get the impression that Beauty and the Beast should pretty easily be the objectively "better" ride. But I would have been forever mad that they built BATB in EPCOT when we're not even a decade out from the Beauty and the Beast expansion at Magic Kingdom. Imagine crossing the bridge to the recreation of Belle's Village and realizing you have to hop the Monorail to EPCOT to get on her ride. Splitting up the IP across the parks in that way would be a ridiculous misstep that could never be undone.

I'm not especially optimistic that we'll see the BATB ride come to The Magic Kingdom, though I'd love it to, but I am comforted by the fact that they didn't built it in World Showcase.
 

britain

Well-Known Member
I know! Can you imagine walking into Toy Story Land and finding out you can’t ride Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin?! That would be nuts!

Point taken, but 1) I think Buzz shouldn’t be in Tomorrowland to begin with, 2) you’ll still get to ride a few good TS rides in TSL, unlike BATB being in EPCOT while you’re in Belle’s village at MK, and 3) if you are uninformed about which attraction is where, you’d probably also think that Alien Swirling Saucers is this “Space Ranger Spin” you’ve heard about.
 
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Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Beauty and the Beast would’ve been a lousy addition to world showcase. Rat is clearly the superior choice.

It doesn’t matter if beauty and the beast would’ve been a better ride. Splash Mountain is probably a better attraction than the American Adventure, that doesn’t mean it belongs there.
Must say that I find the hand wringing over the fact the B&tB attraction didn't go into World Showcase a bit puzzling considering the usual aversion to IP and the general acceptance that Ratatouille is one of the better fits if they're going that route. While B&tB is technically set in France, the film itself hardly references anything to do with French culture to the point where the setting is almost irrelevant. In this case, it seems Disney showed more concern for the thematic integrity of the French pavilion than the fans would have!
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I know! Can you imagine walking into Toy Story Land and finding out you can’t ride Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin?! That would be nuts!
Yeah! Isn't it frustrating?

Sounds like poor planning to me.


But at least Space Ranger Spin and Toy Story Land each present a different take on Buzz Lightyear. SRS leans into "Buzz Lightyear of Star Command", which presents Buzz as a character that the Toy in the Toy Story world is based on, rather than "Buzz the Toy" himself that we see in both the movie and in Toy Story Land. Belle's Village in New Fantasyland and The Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast Ride are literally meant to be putting you in the same location in the same story with the same characters in the same timeline. So, if having SRS and TSL in different parks isn't bad enough, this would be even worse.

Not to mention that Beauty and the Beast has simply nothing to do with EPCOT.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I actually think MMRR is *better* than GMR though I would have preferred they kept both. We will see about GotG. UoE was an embarrassment during the 2010s.

Frozen singalong is surprisingly good and better than anything in that space in decades.

Toy Story Land is more enjoyable than any recent Backlot Tour.

Soarin Around the World is a net-plus for the park—we got digital projectors and a show that fits Epcot better.

The new Land show is actually good. Haven’t seen the Canada show or BatB singalong though I expect the former is good.

I liked the M:S updates.

The Coronado Springs update was absolutely a win. And I personally approve of the Copper Creek updates at WL.

It hasn’t been that awful...
MMRR - haven't ridden yet. For now, like you, I shall stick with the both appreciative and damning thought of 'finally a fun Mickey ride, shame about it replacing a headliner instead of being an addition as in DCA'

Frozen singalong - toddler theatre is not what I dreamed WDW would replace itself with.

TSL - awful. The aesthetics of a cheap regional knock-off park, with mediocre rides. I liked this area better when it was a water tower.

Soarin' CGI Adventures - mixed, indeed. Better fit, lesser ride. Contrary to TT, for me final verdict is a slight loss. Personal taste may vary. (But with modern digital technology, couldn't they have added a few randomised destinations? )

The 3 new EPCOT movies I haven't seen yet. In principle movies should be replaced every now and then, so a priori an improvement. Is the new China movie as good as the previous beautiful poetry of image, word and sound of Li Bai and that wonderful soundtrack? Here's hoping! Props though for three movies that don't revolve around princesses, an astonishing accomplishment by somebody still caring, somewhere!

M:S is awesome and only got better. Touchdown for the Butler.

CS lost much charm to me. Although as so often, years of neglect and under investment almost make any redo a net plus. The story of most of WDW.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Yeah! Isn't it frustrating?

Sounds like poor planning to me.


But at least Space Ranger Spin and Toy Story Land each present a different take on Buzz Lightyear. SRS leans into "Buzz Lightyear of Star Command", which presents Buzz as a character that the Toy in the Toy Story world is based on, rather than "Buzz the Toy" himself that we see in both the movie and in Toy Story Land. Belle's Village in New Fantasyland and The Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast Ride are literally meant to be putting you in the same location in the same story with the same characters in the same timeline. So, if having SRS and TSL in different parks isn't bad enough, this would be even worse.

Not to mention that Beauty and the Beast has simply nothing to do with EPCOT.

What is unique to WDW compared to the other Disney parks around the world is that WDW has four parks while the rest have two or even one.

When you have only two parks, it's relatively easy to determine which IP goes where and group them together. (And if it doesn't fit, you just wall it off as its own land... I'm looking at you DL's SWGE.)

But WDW has to fill up attractions for four parks, and, given the pressure to include IP (which has been building for a long time), WDW chooses to spread the IP into more than one park, to the dismay of everyone's OCD.

So, their top and most profitable IPs will show up in more than one park... sometimes three. And as much as we would love to imagineer putting Buzz Spin in Toy Story Land, or move FEA into a Frozen Land in DHS with the sing-along, or put the Nemo Musical in a theater next to The Sea (or move the aquarium to DAK).... WDW isn't going to do that.

This also goes for attractions that went into MK when that was the only park, but would now be better in other parks (let's move IaSW and CoP to Epcot!).
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
I would've preferred for Rat to be in a properly-built Place de Remy in part of the space where TSL is now. I think TSL would've been better as a Pixar Land with Rat and a Monster's Inc. Ride, and I think it would've been better to connect it to the already extant Pixar Place. But such is the way of things. TSL really does look cheap. It's disappointing.

As for Mermaid I just want to know when the thing will die already, jeez.
There’s no way Rat fits better in a “Pixar Place” than in France where it took place (in a restaurant, no less.)

The only thing tying them together is a studio. So can we group Snow White with Moana and DuckTales and call it “Disney Place?”
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Point taken, but 1) I think Buzz shouldn’t be in Tomorrowland to begin with, 2) you’ll still get to ride a few good TS rides in TSL, unlike BATB being in EPCOT while you’re in Belle’s village at MK, and 3) if you are uninformed about which attraction is where, you’d probably also think that Alien Swirling Saucers is this “Space Ranger Spin” you’ve heard about.
I agree. Buzz in MK is redundant and almost TS overkill. That whole area including Stitch would be a great opportunity for a do-over when they have money again.
 

MansionButler84

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Indeed. When we were informed (thank-you!) that there's a battle between BatB and Rat, most people's opinions on these boards seemed to favor Rat. Now that we're reminded of that, all of a sudden, the BatB partisans are re-airing their choice as a grievance.
I seem to remember that part of the issue is the BatB concept was not quite ready when they were selecting Epcot’s ride. Rat is quite delayed from its original time table when it was to open with the SkyLiner and pull guests from a slammed SWGE. The irony, of course, is that the (now looking like) 18-month delay would’ve allowed BatB. The one silver lining here is that the French really like Ratatouille (the film) as it is a love letter to Paris and the national tradition of cuisine. It’s just a pity that the better ride concept ended up with the lesser ride.

What does the BatB ride cost? It looks like it should be well north of $200 million, making Rat the more fiscally-sound choice in a park also building a $450 million coaster.

Wouldn’t the area around a BatB ride just look like the ride-less area in Fantasyland? At the end of the day, for BatB, we got what we got and Tokyo will get a better area 8 years later. We got the best Toy Story Land, too, but Paris still doesn’t have Slinky Dog Dash...
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
I seem to remember that part of the issue is the BatB concept was not quite ready when they were selecting Epcot’s ride...
It was ready to be chosen, but they chose Rat. This was in fall 2016-ish. It’s worth noting the roller coaster was green lit quite some time before Rat was approved.

Rat is coming in at around half of the coaster. Not saying that was the reason for being chosen since I wouldn’t know such things.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I would actually consider it's headliner attraction to be Toy Story Mania. Also no matter what you think, it's better than Dinoland USA.

I didn't count Toy Story Mania because it already existed. It wasn't something they built new as part of Toy Story Land. I also HATE Toy Story Mania.

Also, yeah, it's better than Dinoland USA.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The point still stands that an objectively "better" attraction that is not better-suited for an area is not "better" overall - The Haunted Mansion would be the best attraction in Animation Courtyard if you built it there . . . doesn't mean you should ever, ever build it there.

Having ridden Ratatouille, and having not ridden Beauty and the Beast (obviously), I do get the impression that Beauty and the Beast should pretty easily be the objectively "better" ride. But I would have been forever mad that they built BATB in EPCOT when we're not even a decade out from the Beauty and the Beast expansion at Magic Kingdom. Imagine crossing the bridge to the recreation of Belle's Village and realizing you have to hop the Monorail to EPCOT to get on her ride. Splitting up the IP across the parks in that way would be a ridiculous misstep that could never be undone.

I'm not especially optimistic that we'll see the BATB ride come to The Magic Kingdom, though I'd love it to, but I am comforted by the fact that they didn't built it in World Showcase.

I agree that Rat is a "better" fit for World Showcase. And of course BatB should be going into New Fantasyland in the BatB area, but I don't believe that will happen.

While I am generally in agreement with most of what you post, I'm also aware that Disney no longer cares about the vast majority of things we care about. Because Rat is still a terrible fit for EPCOT/World Showcase, I think I'd rather have the better attraction. It still wouldn't be worse than Frozen in Norway.

Ideally neither would be there.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
I mean, there is an entire section of Fantasyland Forest dedicated to BATB. But is there space back there for the showbuilding?

If they were to completely gut the glorified cafeteria, I think it could use that building and space? Will never happen of course. and if the fairytale hall were ever to be turned back into a ride (like it should be) there would definitely not be room there for BATB but something else sure would be nice.
 

britain

Well-Known Member
If there were no Ratatouille film, but the Ratatouille attraction was added to the France pavilion as a “new IP” then everyone would be saying that this is a perfect addition to the France pavilion.

Legitimate criticism about over-reliance on screens set aside, the only other reason there are fans against Rat being added to World Showcase is because they are Anti-Preexisting-IP.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
If there were no Ratatouille film, but the Ratatouille attraction was added to the France pavilion as a “new IP” then everyone would be saying that this is a perfect addition to the France pavilion.

Legitimate criticism about over-reliance on screens set aside, the only other reason there are fans against Rat being added to World Showcase is because they are Anti-Preexisting-IP.
Any Proof?
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
That (along with some other things on your list; not all) are hard to really call improvements, though. If you let something rot and then replace it, the replacement is going to be better almost by default. The original Backlot Tour was much better than Toy Story Land, which is frankly terrible. It's almost embarrassing for Disney to have built something of that quality level; it looks like it belongs in a regional park and it's headliner attraction (Slinky Dog) isn't even top 5 in Hollywood Studios, which is really bad considering the meager offerings there.
Wow, I really like how you get shrunk down to a size smaller than a toy and walk around a kid's play area. Then the use of 90s style game boxes, instructions and even price tags is so immersive and nostalgic for me. Plus, TSMM is my favorite ride in the park (save RnRc). I'm glad they added extra capacity with TSL.
 
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