Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025

sedati

Well-Known Member
Who wants smaller windows?
I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
Well now you're just being silly. There's probably no theme park in existence that keeps a consistent scale between all of its lands. Most fail to keep their scale completely consistent within a single land, no matter how hard they try, including Disney's. We don't refer to any of them as "gated retail corridors." And for that matter, what even is the scale of Celestial Park supposed to be? Do we have evidence of forced perspective in use? Because I don't think I've seen any, and they would have to be utilizing tricks along those lines in the first place in order for the hotel to technically be out-of-scale with the rest of the land. Just having an imposing building in a theme park doesn't mean the scale is wrong.

Epic Universe also doesn't have "mini lands." It's not a small park, even if it isn't fully developed on day one.

How many of those posters decrying the size of the windows actually planned to use them? How many are staying in the top floor of that hotel?
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Looks like almost the entire budget went into the bars.

Aside from it's prominence, this hotel defies any attempt to hide its real-world scale.

In fact, Helios goes even further in the opposite direction. Look at the Grand Californian, Disneyland Hotel Paris, and Mira Costa. While not at proper theme park scale, they do at least mask this by scaling down the upper floors by using smaller windows.

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Compare that to Helios where the windows actually start off small and get larger and larger as you climb.

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I remember a thousand posts decrying full-sized windows on the second floor of Disneyland‘s Club-33 (A justified criticism). Epic Universe is breaking many theme park norms with inconsistencies of scale being a big one. It’s probably best to not think of this as a full, cohesive theme park and instead recognize it as a gated retail corridor with themed mini lands attached.
You clearly don’t understand what you are talking about. The windows (and other design elements) at Club 33 were criticized because they were immediately adjacent to other elements that they contradicted. In this case you are referencing elements used to force the perspective. Those big windows betrayed that the buildings were not as big as they looked.

Smaller windows are only a “theme park
norm” because of the use of forced perspective. But you’ve mixed up how it works. Smaller windows as you go up would be part of making a building look bigger, not smaller. You can make a building looked smaller by using bigger windows and elements, see The American Adventure building.

There is no “proper theme park scale.” For one, it’s generally a misnomer repeated by people who don’t understand and two it assumes some sort of consistency that is not employed because it makes no sense. Forced perspective is an art, it is something designed that must vary based on the goal of the design. It is also employed due to cost. Epic Universe using less forced perspective is a perfectly valid design choice.
 

DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
You clearly don’t understand what you are talking about. The windows (and other design elements) at Club 33 were criticized because they were immediately adjacent to other elements that they contradicted. In this case you are referencing elements used to force the perspective. Those big windows betrayed that the buildings were not as big as they looked.

Smaller windows are only a “theme park
norm” because of the use of forced perspective. But you’ve mixed up how it works. Smaller windows as you go up would be part of making a building look bigger, not smaller. You can make a building looked smaller by using bigger windows and elements, see The American Adventure building.

There is no “proper theme park scale.” For one, it’s generally a misnomer repeated by people who don’t understand and two it assumes some sort of consistency that is not employed because it makes no sense. Forced perspective is an art, it is something designed that must vary based on the goal of the design. It is also employed due to cost. Epic Universe using less forced perspective is a perfectly valid design choice.


That critique is half-baked, but sorta makes some sense. If the scale of this map is accurate, it’s kinda crazy how much of a make-or-break Celestial Park is. The park is certainly not small, but the lands definitely are.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
If "Summer of 2025" is, let's say, June 1; then how many days is that?

Oh, look, it's in my signature!
Summer 2025 technically doesn't start until June 20th.

Sassy Jimmy Fallon GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
We got a little confused here. Epic not having Express is not surprising. Helios not having Express, at all, is a little surprising.
I don’t think it’s surprising, the current parks can’t add yet more people with unlimited express pass without impacting the main queues or reducing the ability to sell express. The new park is unlikely to offer express for the foreseeable future. I would expect Helios to be priced accordingly, definitely more expensive than Sapphire Falls but likely lower than Portofino Bay due to no express pass.
 

DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s surprising, the current parks can’t add yet more people with unlimited express pass without impacting the main queues or reducing the ability to sell express. The new park is unlikely to offer express for the foreseeable future. I would expect Helios to be priced accordingly, definitely more expensive than Sapphire Falls but likely lower than Portofino Bay due to no express pass.
Perhaps I’m crazy, but I’d be really shocked to see Helios below Portofino considering the way that Universal is marketing the product. Maybe if Helios doesn’t perform too well in the long-run.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s surprising, the current parks can’t add yet more people with unlimited express pass without impacting the main queues or reducing the ability to sell express. The new park is unlikely to offer express for the foreseeable future. I would expect Helios to be priced accordingly, definitely more expensive than Sapphire Falls but likely lower than Portofino Bay due to no express pass.
It should be lower than all three Express resorts. If Sapphire is $300/night and Royal Pacific is $600, this should be $450. But I bet they’ll go higher.
 

DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
They may price Helios like Disney does: The closer and better access to a park the resort has, the more of a upcharge -- baked into the price -- there will be for that feature.
They definitely will — but unlike the Disney resorts, guests will have a comparable amenity to consciously weigh against that convenience. A family of four is easily saving at least $300-400 by choosing an Express hotel, so they’ll have to ask if giving that up is worth the close proximity to Epic.
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
They definitely will — but unlike the Disney resorts, guests will have a comparable amenity to consciously weigh against that convenience. A family of four is easily saving at least $300-400 by choosing an Express hotel, so they’ll have to ask if giving that up is worth the close proximity to Epic.

That's going to be the issue with this hotel. Depending on the aim of your holiday (Epic only or USF/IOA/VB/EU), depending on price, if Helios does not have express pass, or an exclusive benefit you can't get from a different hotel, if you are just wanting a standard hotel room (not club level, or a suite):

  • Terra Luna and Stella Nova will give the same walkable access, for potentially a lot less $$$ (for a little more walking time)
  • Sapphire Falls is walkable to two theme parks, instead of one (if you are planning to visit all 3, then bus needed to 1 park instead of 2), if no express pass at either.
  • If you're a big family, Cabana Bay family suites will fit more than a standard hotel room (1 family suite sleeps 6 instead of needing 2 rooms)
  • If a bigger party, and you wanted Express Pass for the other parks, cheaper to stay at RPR/HRH/PB, than stay at Helios and buy Express Pass.
  • If a smaller party, and you wanted to buy Express Pass, staying at Endless Summer/Cabana Bay/Aventura and buying Express pass would work out cheaper than buying them at Helios.
Will it be nice to stay at? Yes
Would it be nice to have that view? Yes
If no express pass, or exclusive benefit, is it all going to come down to cost? Probably...
 

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