Union asks Disney to increase worker pay

[disneyjesus]

And what about the "union brothers and sisters" that are at the bottom of the senority list? How are they more secure than anyone who works for a company without a union?

Well, for starters, union members on the bottom of the seniority list have a contract. Most employees without a union are employed "at will." Less seniority doesn't mean it's easier to fire an employee.

Most companies, union or not, will find a "just cause" to fire you if they want to. You are sadly mistaken to think that you cannot be fired because you are in a union.

I never said you can't be fired if you're in a union. Union contracts ensure that an employee won't be terminated without just cause. An employee isn't fired for just cause just because the employer says so, it must be proven. And if there is just cause, typically the union will not represent the employee beyond the standard grievance process. Furthermore, if there is a question as to just cause, most contracts provide for an arbitration process to address that issue.

Most, if not all, union contracts have a yearly raise for all union employees covered under the contract, and yes, there is usually some sort of merit raise based on performance. However, ask any new employee, just after the performance review period these two questions: "Do you feel that you deserved more of a raise?" "Did you hear any of the higher senority union members (> 10 years) griping about how low their raise was?" I'll bet the answers to both questions is YES. And why is that? Because a union contract keeps wages down.

If union contracts keep wages down, why do employers fight so hard to keep unions out? Do you work in a union shop? I think if you ask most individuals who either have or want union representation, one of the main reasons they want representation is to guarantee a more fair wage. If a contract calls for a merit raise, if the Union negotiators are worth their salt, they will ensure that certain objective requirements are in place so that raises are granted fairly. And even if they are not, contracts must be voted on by the members. The union cannot sign an agreement that is not voted on by the employees themselves.

If a company is non-union, and they are smart, they will: a) pay reasonably well to get the best workers. b) give decent raises to keep those workers. From the employees' point of view, working for a company like that will keep them happy, and they will be less likely to leave the company for "greener pastures."

This will not happen necessarily if a company is smart, but rather if a company is fair. You'll notice that most fair employers are not targeted by unions. Costco is non-union, but because they pay good wages and provide good benefits, there is less of a need for representation. Same thing with Motorola. Some companies are non-union simply because the employees don't really feel like they need them. But the truth is that most employers are not so generous (see Walmart). And unless employers take your advice and pay decent wages, and give decent raises to those who perform well, most employees will need representation.

In the case of Disney, if the increased wages ultimately means that the prices go up, I don't see anything wrong with that. Part of the cost to the consumer is the ultra-friendly service we come to expect from CMs. I believe they are entitled to a good wage, and I'm more than willing to pay for the exceptional service usually provided by Disney Cast Members.

 

[disneyjesus]

Neither side of this debate has the wherewithal to provide strong facts to support their contentions... however, a quick look at the business sections of any national newspaper will give you an idea of how good unions are for corporations. Several are in or on the verge of bankruptcy caused in large part by bloated employee pay and benefits.

Bloated pay and benefits are not the same as fair wages and benefits. Of course business sections will tell you that high wages are bad for corporations. Any first year economics student will tell you that higher costs lead to lower profits. That's as effective as saying that a good strategy for playing the stock market is to buy low and sell high.

But things are not that simple. The company's interest is not the only one at stake. There is a symbiotic relationship between the corporation, its employees, and the community. Please understand that I do not defend all the actions of all unions. I agree that some unions are corrupt, some of them take an intimidation approach to negotiations, and some are simply too inept to adequately represent its members. But at their core, unions stand for representing the rights of working men and women. And employees in the US have the right to elect representation if they choose, and the employer must recognize that organization.

If cast members were paid $10 an hour plus benefits, would you consider that a bloated wage? For the service they provide, I wouldnt.

 

[wannab@dis]

Bloated pay and benefits are not the same as fair wages and benefits. Of course business sections will tell you that high wages are bad for corporations. Any first year economics student will tell you that higher costs lead to lower profits. That's as effective as saying that a good strategy for playing the stock market is to buy low and sell high.

But things are not that simple. The company's interest is not the only one at stake. There is a symbiotic relationship between the corporation, its employees, and the community. Please understand that I do not defend all the actions of all unions. I agree that some unions are corrupt, some of them take an intimidation approach to negotiations, and some are simply too inept to adequately represent its members. But at their core, unions stand for representing the rights of working men and women. And employees in the US have the right to elect representation if they choose, and the employer must recognize that organization.

If cast members were paid $10 an hour plus benefits, would you consider that a bloated wage? For the service they provide, I wouldnt.

Be careful for what you wish for... going from a $7/hr wage to $10/hr wage would cost WDW more than $300 MILLION a year. I don't have time to do some research right now, but that would drive up costs to a point that everyone would complain. In fact, I believe that would be a substantial percentage of last years park profits.

Do a search for threads related to the last ticket price increase... You'll find LOTS of people upset. Now multiple that by a factor of thousands and you can start to see the backlash that would occur.

Here's the deal... maybe you missed it in the thread before you joined in... I'm NOT against meritorious raises by no means... however, across the board increases will not fix the problem. Complaints would still abound because once they see an increase, they will want more. You know... give a 'mouse' a cookie and he'll want some milk.

 

[Justin_K]

Be careful for what you wish for... going from a $7/hr wage to $10/hr wage would cost WDW more than $300 MILLION a year... that would drive up costs to a point that everyone would complain

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Eisner's compensation from Disney averaged out to more than $50 million a year.

That's one person. Where's your outrage? :animwink:

 

[wannab@dis]

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Eisner's compensation from Disney averaged out to more than $50 million a year.

That's one person. Where's your outrage? :animwink:

And it could have been higher if the company had done better during some periods... his pay was based primarily on options and profit bonuses. If he felt the profit of the company would have been higher with better CM wages, you can bet he would have ordered them increased.

Once again, your posts do not look at the issue at hand, but at a single point that has no input on the debate. If you think a sweeper on Main Street has the same merit as a CEO, then you're sadly mistaken.

 

[GothMickey]

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Eisner's compensation from Disney averaged out to more than $50 million a year.

That's one person. Where's your outrage? :animwink:

You won't find that outrage here.. Some members here will say Eisner wasn't compensated enough... Eisner could do no wrong to a lot of the memebrs here on this board...

 

[wannab@dis]

You won't find that outrage here.. Some members here will say Eisner wasn't compensated enough... Eisner could do no wrong to a lot of the memebrs here on this board...

I would actually think the opposite is the case.

But to your point... Eisner wasn't tops in CEO pay by any means. Facts? http://www.forbes.com/static/execpay2005/rank.html Take a look. He's way down the list on most numbers. If you take options out of the mix, his pay is much lower than most. :wave:

 

[GothMickey]

I would actually think the opposite is the case.

But to your point... Eisner wasn't tops in CEO pay by any means. Facts? http://www.forbes.com/static/execpay2005/rank.html Take a look. He's way down the list on most numbers. If you take options out of the mix, his pay is much lower than most. :wave:

So you think Eisner was paid too much?? I did say most members here would feel Eisner wasn't paid enough, even though he dag near killed the company... But then you say opposite is true.. So, you agree Eisner was paid way to much for 10 years worth of micro managing, over inflating his ego and nearly destroying the company?

Regardless, ALL CEOs are paid way too much... And it is the underlings that suffer and have to struggle to survive... it sickens me...DISNEY STOP BEING GREEDY AND PAY YOUR WORKERS DAGIT!!!!

 

[Justin_K]

his pay was based primarily on options and profit bonuses

In 2000, Eisner got a salary increase, 2 million stock options in DIG and an $11.5 million bonus -- after three years in which income fell by more than half.

 

[speck76]

perhaps Disney should eliminate the employee passes, discounts, and things of that nature that people seem to forget about when discussing how CM's are paid no more than people in comparable non-disney jobs.....

I will start to feel sorry for the poor cast members when I no longer see them spending $$ on $8 drinks at PI.....

 

[Thelazer]

^^

That is so much crap!!!

You cannot even suggest that those little perks you mention make up for a raise. My passes, I have to just about give them away at the front gate because when EVERYONE else you know works there and they get them as well, well what good does it do? How about those discounts? That stuff is overpriced anyways, I don't shop in the parks, I shop at Target or Wal-Mart. Where do you work? What did your company give you for Christmas last year? I bet it was better than what we got. If you want to make an argument out of the little perks Disney gives you, I might let the health insurance slide. Trying to tell me that the employee passes and discounts on the other hand, making up for the low pay is just total crap.

For those that spend money at PI, that's there choice. I don't and I'm by no means quite as "poor" as those cast members. Still, I have a hard time each month paying the bills. Is it because I live a large lifestyle, hardly! It's because the cost of living in Orlando is high and the pay is low.

As far as the whole side of union or not they will get rid of you if they want to. BULLY. I said BULLY on it. I can take you right now to meet a cast member who has been on the company’s blacklist for sometime. In fact, I could tell you all about a manager who fabricated all sorts of charges against this guy. When the facts came out, the union saved his job and what happened to the Manager? Nothing. Had this guy NOT been in the union, he would have had no chance to defend himself. Hell, I'll point out to you one person who was in the same situation and guess what, there position at the company was a "non union" position. Take a wild guess, yea they got fired and could not get there job back, had they been in the union well they would still have a job right now.



Speck76 and WanniB@Dis. Why not come down and work here for 6 months. In fact, come down right now. I'll take you to casting you can even get the $1000 bonus. Work for 6 months say in custodial or in housekeeping and your tune will change.

 

[wannab@dis]

In 2000, Eisner got a salary increase, 2 million stock options in DIG and an $11.5 million bonus -- after three years in which income fell by more than half.

If I'm not mistaken... that was part of his contract.

Listen... I think this is proof of "everyone has an opinion"

Do CEOs make a lot of money? Yes... Do they ALL deserve it? Probably not... Did Eisner make a lot of money? Yes... Did he deserve ALL of it? I don't know. However, I believe I can honestly say that Eisner saved the company and if he hadn't made some hard choices, I'm not sure we would see the parks thriving today. Could some decisions have been made differently? Of course, but hindsight...

 

[wannab@dis]

perhaps Disney should eliminate the employee passes, discounts, and things of that nature that people seem to forget about when discussing how CM's are paid no more than people in comparable non-disney jobs.....

I will start to feel sorry for the poor cast members when I no longer see them spending $$ on $8 drinks at PI.....

I would like to see an actual wage + benefit + cost of employment for CMs.

In fact, I'm betting that most in this discussion have no idea the costs of an employee beyond their base wage. It may be enlightening for several.

 

[speck76]

Speck76 and WanniB@Dis. Why not come down and work here for 6 months. In fact, come down right now. I'll take you to casting you can even get the $1000 bonus. Work for 6 months say in custodial or in housekeeping and your tune will change.

Why would I do that? I worked hard...put myself through college, and worked in my company from the bottom into senior management......I am not about to take a step back now.

Yes, it was hard when I was at the bottom, but I worked hard, and got through it, and was rewarded with promotions and more pay.

The problem is people are trying to make a career out of pushing a button on IaSW....but that is not a career position, and if you think ANY company would rather have a long-term employee making double what a new-hire would make for such a job.....you are mistaken.

I think the problem is that we are in a "my needs are not being met (and by no means is that my fault) society". If you can't afford to live in Orlando, move someplace else. If you can't afford to make ends meet working a wage-job at WDW, work someplace else...or get a second job....but stop the "my employer should ensure I can have a comfortable life" BS......it will NEVER happen for unskilled labor.....there is no such thing as an unskilled "living wage"

I don't care if the CM's get a wage hike.....I prefer they don't, as I know the cost will be passed on to me, either at the gate, or in the stock price....

 

[speck76]

I would like to see an actual wage + benefit + cost of employment for CMs.

In fact, I'm betting that most in this discussion have no idea the costs of an employee beyond their base wage. It may be enlightening for several.

while most employees medical benefits run around 30-40% of their wage, I am sure it is much higher at WDW.....they have the best healthcare in the area, and their premiums are the lowest.....

again....another benefit over that of a worker at Wal-Mart...an expensive one at that

 

[Hakunamatata]

^^

That is so much crap!!!

Actually its not.

You cannot even suggest that those little perks you mention make up for a raise. My passes, I have to just about give them away at the front gate because when EVERYONE else you know works there and they get them as well, well what good does it do?

So, you are selling your passes? Is that legal?

How about those discounts? That stuff is overpriced anyways, I don't shop in the parks, I shop at Target or Wal-Mart.

Well, since you work at a resort.....you will find resort prices. Just like if you went to any resort on the planet where you pay almost 50% more than you would off site.

Where do you work? What did your company give you for Christmas last year?

For the third largest insurer in the USA. And I got nothin for Christmas besides my regular paycheck. No bonus, no cheap toaster, no Christmas Card. Nothing.

Trying to tell me that the employee passes and discounts on the other hand, making up for the low pay is just total crap.

That is not what Speck said. He said you should factor it in.

For those that spend money at PI, that's there choice. I don't and I'm by no means quite as "poor" as those cast members. Still, I have a hard time each month paying the bills. Is it because I live a large lifestyle, hardly! It's because the cost of living in Orlando is high and the pay is low.

Free market economy. Move where your services are worth more.

As far as the whole side of union or not they will get rid of you if they want to. BULLY. I said BULLY on it. I can take you right now to meet a cast member who has been on the company’s blacklist for sometime. In fact, I could tell you all about a manager who fabricated all sorts of charges against this guy. When the facts came out, the union saved his job and what happened to the Manager? Nothing. Had this guy NOT been in the union, he would have had no chance to defend himself. Hell, I'll point out to you one person who was in the same situation and guess what, there position at the company was a "non union" position. Take a wild guess, yea they got fired and could not get there job back, had they been in the union well they would still have a job right now..

Blah, blah, blah....

Speck76 and WanniB@Dis. Why not come down and work here for 6 months. In fact, come down right now. I'll take you to casting you can even get the $1000 bonus. Work for 6 months say in custodial or in housekeeping and your tune will change.

Like Speck said, why would he want to do that? He has worked hard, done his time, and made a life for himself where he can come to Disney to take a vacation, not to work. Some have already said it. Part time, minimum wage jobs, are not meant to support a family. Its just not supposed to do it. If you want to make more than minimum wage, better yourself, but dont blame others because you want a raise, and the market does not support it.

 

[wannab@dis]

Why would I do that? I worked hard...put myself through college, and worked in my company from the bottom into senior management......I am not about to take a step back now.

Yes, it was hard when I was at the bottom, but I worked hard, and got through it, and was rewarded with promotions and more pay.

The problem is people are trying to make a career out of pushing a button on IaSW....but that is not a career position, and if you think ANY company would rather have a long-term employee making double what a new-hire would make for such a job.....you are mistaken.

I think the problem is that we are in a "my needs are not being met (and by no means is that my fault) society". If you can't afford to live in Orlando, move someplace else. If you can't afford to make ends meet working a wage-job at WDW, work someplace else...or get a second job....but stop the "my employer should ensure I can have a comfortable life" BS......it will NEVER happen for unskilled labor.....there is no such thing as an unskilled "living wage"

I don't care if the CM's get a wage hike.....I prefer they don't, as I know the cost will be passed on to me, either at the gate, or in the stock price....

Great post... Sounds like we have similar work history.

I started out working for $4.75 an hour and then moved up. However, I made 2 lateral moves to other companies so I could continue the upward move. It took a college degree, years of experience and 2 life changing job uphevals to get where I'm at now.

It continues to baffle me as to why some feel that an unskilled position should be their path to security in a short amount of time. Most don't see that happen after decades with the same company in unskilled positions.

 

[wannab@dis]

while most employees medical benefits run around 30-40% of their wage, I am sure it is much higher at WDW.....they have the best healthcare in the area, and their premiums are the lowest.....

again....another benefit over that of a worker at Wal-Mart...an expensive one at that

Add in Work Comp, SSI, passes, resort and food discounts, etc and that percentage probably jumps to close to 60%.

 

[scottnj1966]

Remember this is starting pay. Most cast members at Disney are not just starting out. Every company start new hires low unless you have real experience.
I would have to say most cast members make alot more then 6.90 an hour since most always have some years under their belt.

Union asks Disney to increase worker pay

Beth Kassab | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted May 20, 2006

The union representing about half the workers at Walt Disney World called on Disney executives Friday to increase wages to combat recent hiring and retention problems.

In a letter to Disney, the Services Trade Council cited mandatory overtime, increases in living costs -- such as high gas prices -- and stagnant wages as contributing to "low morale" on the job.

"The problem has clearly become such a general one affecting so many of the cast members that we represent we felt we needed to emphasize to the company the fundamental issues of the low starting wage," said Morty Miller, president of the council, an umbrella group that represents six unions with 29,000 Disney employees.

Disney launched a hiring blitz in recent months that featured job fairs and bonuses to workers who refer new hires.

Miller said those tactics ignore the real reason Disney can't hire and retain enough workers: compensation. He said 20 percent of the workers he represents earn less than $7 an hour.

Universal Orlando raised its minimum wage this month by 50 cents to $7.25 an hour as a way to remain competitive in the hiring game in a market with low unemployment. In March, SeaWorld Orlando went to $7 an hour.

Disney's starting wage is $6.90.

Disney spokesman Jacob DiPietre said the company is always assessing its pay packages and ways to recruit employees.

"We offer a competitive package of wages and benefits, including subsidized on-site child care, commuter assistance and theme-park admission," he said. "We are constantly evaluating the market to ensure our wages remain competitive. Currently, we are looking at several different options to help us recruit and retain the best and most qualified cast members."

Beth Kassab can be reached at bkassab@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5448.

 

[GothMickey]

If I'm not mistaken... that was part of his contract.

Listen... I think this is proof of "everyone has an opinion"

Do CEOs make a lot of money? Yes... Do they ALL deserve it? Probably not... Did Eisner make a lot of money? Yes... Did he deserve ALL of it? I don't know. However, I believe I can honestly say that Eisner saved the company and if he hadn't made some hard choices, I'm not sure we would see the parks thriving today. Could some decisions have been made differently? Of course, but hindsight...

Why do you have such a hard time saying HE WAS PAID WAY TOO MUCH WHEN THE COMPANY WAS FAILING UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP??? Yo are one of the Eisner apologists I am talking about...

Pay the CMs they deserve it....