Union asks Disney to increase worker pay

[Disneyland1970]

Add in Work Comp, SSI, passes, resort and food discounts, etc and that percentage probably jumps to close to 60%.

WOW, pretty soon you are going to blame the CMs for the power used by the ride they are operating as a hit to the bottom line.

I'm curious what great companies do Speck and you work for to cause so much grief against someone who you do not know asking for a raise. If your non-union jobs pay so great, what is the big deal if tickets go up 10%?? I know you have said you are against a blanket raise because the non productive will also prosper. Just remember most people work up or down to expectations. Maybe a raise will help?

You both are from (at least right now) right to work states that are historically known for poor pay and non union affiliation. I can understand the lack of knowledge when it comes to all aspects of unions, but please don't lump all unions together as the evil plague of modern business. Yes, unions are not the saving grace or as powerful as they once were, but as a union member of 3 different affiliations for over 20 years, I take offense to the negative tones towards my union brothers and sisters.
Just remember you may be safe in your jobs now, but almost all of us are worried about our jobs or employment at least once in our career. Some of us view the membership in a union as a little more of a security cushion in case a buyout or plant move takes place. The amount of my dues of $400 a year and are a small price to pay for the security to my family that I will not show up to work and be handed a pink slip out of the blue. Besides they are tax deductable. I also get discounts to WDW:sohappy: because of my union.

I am an Airplane mechanic (C-5) at Warner Robins AFB in GA. I moved here almost 5 years ago from Sacramento CA. I don't have the best benefits as far as medical, but I do get awesome vacation and sick time!! I also make $23 an hour, which is good for Georgia. I know I work for the Government, but our jobs are not any more secure than the outside workforce. I am a member of the union to help in case of base closure or loss of position to contractors.I am the only wage earner right now while my wife is in school full time. We rent, have a car payment and a 6 year old little girl to raise. We have a hard time getting by every month, so I can feel for anyone trying to get by on $6.50 an hour.

Well there are some specific details from the union side of the fence. Probably some doing better and some doing worse out there. But I am not knocking anyone trying to better themself or get the pay they require to get by.

I have an Aircraft A/P licence (2 year degree)and I am 1 year away from my B.S. in social sciences. So yes I do have some college and peoples lives do rely on me doing my job right everyday. Do I deserve a raise? Sure I will take one!

Lobs ball to your side of the court!

Hell everbody in the U.S. deserves a pay raise to catch up with everyone else in the world. Besides, if Disney CM's get raises, it gives them more money to spend at your respective employers. Everybody wins!

So what are your stories?? What is your reason for being so negative for someone trying to better themselves?

 

[wannab@dis]

Why do you have such a hard time saying HE WAS PAID WAY TOO MUCH WHEN THE COMPANY WAS FAILING UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP??? Yo are one of the Eisner apologists I am talking about...

Pay the CMs they deserve it....

You must have an interesting history book... that's far from informed.

Oh, if the worst thing you can say about me is "Eisner apologist" then I'm happy with that label.

 

[wannab@dis]

WOW, pretty soon you are going to blame the CMs for the power used by the ride they are operating as a hit to the bottom line.

Um, right... :veryconfu

Hell everbody in the U.S. deserves a pay raise to catch up with everyone else in the world.

Perfect sumation of the problems of a union and their history. :wave:

 

[CRO-Magnum]

Let's do a little math...

I doubt the public would pay increased park, resort, food, prices to go to Disney to help make up for the increased wages. After all, they also must pay for higher gas, and living prices.

...to see if this is a mountain or a mole hill. In 1990 the starting wage at the theme parks was $5.35/hr ($6.35 in CRO). Starting wage is now $6.90/hr for an increase of $1.55 in 16 years. That comes to a compound annual increase of 1.6%. The same <b>$5.35</b> 1990 wage adjusted for inflation would be <a href="http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html">$8.43</a> today, an annualized compound growth rate of 2.9%

During that same timeframe Disney one day park admissions have gone from <a href="http://allearsnet.com/tix/tixpix90.htm">$31/day</a> to $62/day which is a 100% increase or an annualized compound growth rate of 4.4%.

<b>So no matter how you slice it, Disney has raised prices three times faster than wages and almost twice as fast as inflation.</b>

Disney has relied for years on a growing population with low-cost housing. About three years ago prices for Orlando area real estate started increasing at an accelerated rate. The result is an increase in cost of living beyond the norm. Employer's in Central Florida have two options: attract staff from farther away where the cost of living is commensurate with the pay OR increase wages.

Where did all that extra money Disney earned go? Primarily into the poorly planned and executed acquisistion of ABC Cap Cities and the pocket of Messr. Eisner. Take $1B in cash (a bit less than what Eisner earned in stock options) across 65,000 employees making $8/hr and you can <b>DOUBLE</b> their pay!

The downside? Wage inflation results in cost inflation which is why the Fed looks at unemployment numbers as a key indicator to adjust short term rates. Companies pass cost increases on to the public unless market pressures (in this case either a new source of staff OR a significant drop in attendance if prices increase) prevent it.

 

[Disneyland1970]

Perfect sumation of the problems of a union and their history. :wave:

That is my own personal feeling, not my union. Let me rephrase that," Everyone except you." You seem to make enough for everyone! Can I be so bold as to ask your age?

 

[wannab@dis]

.Where did all that extra money Disney earned go? Primarily into the poorly planned and executed acquisistion of ABC Cap Cities and the pocket of Messr. Eisner. Take $1B in cash (a bit less than what Eisner earned in stock options) across 65,000 employees making $8/hr and you can DOUBLE their pay

2 things...
1. That poorly planned ABC aquisition is now one of the leading divisions of the company... along with ESPN. (I questioned whether it would ever pay off... guess it did and I was proven wrong. Guess the EVIL Eisner must have been a little smarter.)

2. ONE year of pay... what about next year... and the next... oh, and the next ten. Do you REALLY think they have an additional BILLION dollars to toss out each year? Didn't think so. :hammer:

 

[speck76]

Great post... Sounds like we have similar work history.

I started out working for $4.75 an hour and then moved up. However, I made 2 lateral moves to other companies so I could continue the upward move. It took a college degree, years of experience and 2 life changing job uphevals to get where I'm at now.

It continues to baffle me as to why some feel that an unskilled position should be their path to security in a short amount of time. Most don't see that happen after decades with the same company in unskilled positions.

It insults me that people that have done nothing to improve themselves, or are lazy and think the pinnacle of responsibility is loading people onto the Dumbo ride, think they should be able to, or are entitled to the luxuries others have worked hard for, and have taken on "real responsiblity" for.......

It insults me that they feel I should open my wallet and pay more at the gate so they can skate through life.....

 

[CRO-Magnum]

I too have a similar story...

Great post... Sounds like we have similar work history.

...which included working for Walt Disney World at $6.35/hr in central reservations in 1990. I have made the point in the past that people cannot overvalue unskilled labor as it will always be at the mercy of gains in efficiency and the power of the employer.

My concern is aimed at the governance within WDC and how they invest their money. Wages are an investment in a service oriented company like Disney. A quick measure of the value of the cast members is to calculate the revenue per cast member. One quickly determines that Disney makes more money per head in Theme Parks than in their Movie Studio!

I aruge that Disney can afford to increase wages without passing costs along. The simple fact is that THE VAST MAJORITY OF COMPANIES can do the same. We have had RECORD PROFITABILITY for the past 20+ years in the US yet REAL WAGES haven't increased since the 1970's.

Where is the money going? Primarily into the pockets of the CEO's and senior leadership who receive a disproportionately large payout considering their job risk (likelihood of being fired). As an executive I admit some of that money is going into my pocket in the form of salary, stock grants, stock options, and astounding benefits.

Disney compensation should lead the industry, not lag. Why?

1. puts competitors in a bind who cannot charge as much but must compete for labor
2. stratifies the labor force migrating the best talent to the highest wage
3. a link between customer and employee satisfaction was demonstrated by Disney years ago and is a fundamental of the "Disney Way"
4. Disney also provied a happier customer parts with their money easier

Simply put it's good business!

 

[speck76]

...which included working for Walt Disney World at $6.35/hr in central reservations in 1990. I have made the point in the past that people cannot overvalue unskilled labor as it will always be at the mercy of gains in efficiency and the power of the employer.

My concern is aimed at the governance within WDC and how they invest their money. Wages are an investment in a service oriented company like Disney. A quick measure of the value of the cast members is to calculate the revenue per cast member. One quickly determines that Disney makes more money per head in Theme Parks than in their Movie Studio!

I aruge that Disney can afford to increase wages without passing costs along. The simple fact is that THE VAST MAJORITY OF COMPANIES can do the same. We have had RECORD PROFITABILITY for the past 20+ years in the US yet REAL WAGES haven't increased since the 1970's.

Where is the money going? Primarily into the pockets of the CEO's and senior leadership who receive a disproportionately large payout considering their job risk (likelihood of being fired). As an executive I admit some of that money is going into my pocket in the form of salary, stock grants, stock options, and astounding benefits.

Disney compensation should lead the industry, not lag. Why?

1. puts competitors in a bind who cannot charge as much but must compete for labor
2. stratifies the labor force migrating the best talent to the highest wage
3. a link between customer and employee satisfaction was demonstrated by Disney years ago and is a fundamental of the "Disney Way"
4. Disney also provied a happier customer parts with their money easier

Simply put it's good business!

you make some good points....but I think some are a bit off...

The change since the 1970's has been due to large investment funds, which are the major stockholders in almost every company.....(Smith Barney was the largest shareholder with DIS with 67 million shares, but now Steve Jobs has 138million shares) and they do not care about profit dollars, or revenue, or employee satisfaction....they only care about margin.....

It is not just at WDW, it is EVERYWHERE....and until Wall St. changes the paradigm of what is important....until nameless/faceless banks care about the well-being of the company, and not squeezing every last dime out of the company....until investors think about long-term investment growth, instead of making as much money as quick as possible......nothing will change.

(if you really want things to start changing, Blow up NYC and kill all baby-boomers)

Also...when/if WDW rasies their wages, everyone else in Orlando will too....the cost of living will go up exponentially, and unskilled labor will be no better off.....nor will the hiring situation at WDW.

 

[wannab@dis]

Also...when/if WDW rasies their wages, everyone else in Orlando will too....the cost of living will go up exponentially, and unskilled labor will be no better off.....nor will the hiring situation at WDW.

I was about to write a long winded post about how some of the points Magnum brings up are quite logical. However, business doesn't always follow the way of the Vulcans.. :lookaroun Sorry... trying to interject a little humor in the thread.

In any event, speck76 is 100% correct in his reply. If WDW increased their wages across the board, the cost of living in central FL would also increase because of the sheer size of WDW employee base and because of the reciprocal moves by other local employers. That would probably negate any across the board raise that was given... if not in the short term, then by all means in the long term.

HOWEVER, if they would implement merit raises only, then I don't think you would see that issue. Once again, I'm not against merit raises... just the union requested across the board increases in base wages.

 

[CRO-Magnum]

How do you measure value?

2 things...
1. That poorly planned ABC aquisition is now one of the leading divisions of the company... along with ESPN. (I questioned whether it would ever pay off... guess it did and I was proven wrong. Guess the EVIL Eisner must have been a little smarter.)

I measure it by stock price or dividend. Disney's stock price hasn't changed since 2000. Yes ESPN is a great part of the acquisition but remember that ABC Family is also part of it. Disney's adjusted stock value in 1990 was $18. For the ABC acquisition to "pay off" for investors requires that the stock grow at a modest 8% per year, historic growth rate of the DJIA. Over 11 years that means the stock should be valued at a minimum of $42. Today's close was $30. Wow, a 4.8% annual growth rate. Gee, wow.

You can go ahead and say the investment paid off but I'll stick with Warren Buffet who divested his entire stake as did I.

2. ONE year of pay... what about next year... and the next... oh, and the next ten. Do you REALLY think they have an additional BILLION dollars to toss out each year? Didn't think so.

You must have read my post too quickly :brick: to believe I was suggesting doubling everyone's pay. Yes, Disney easily has the money to do it but you don't need to double pay to solve the problem. I advocate a $1 across the board raise which would tilt the market, better align with inflation, and would only cost (if those numbers were accurate) $135MM per year. Yes it would reflect in the stock price but only because it can - remember most people make their money in the market on volatility.

 

[TAC]

Well, for starters, union members on the bottom of the seniority list have a contract. Most employees without a union are employed "at will." Less seniority doesn't mean it's easier to fire an employee.

And, so are union employees "at will" until they get through probation. Same with non-union employees. What does the seniority list do? It provides a list of union employees in senority order to be laid off. And in most unions the lower seniority members get screwed, usually from the higher and highest seniority members.

If the workload at a unionized company decreased and there were rumors of a layoff, would the union as a whole agree to say a 4 day work week to keep its union "brothers and sisters" ALL working? Highly unlikely. If the workload decreased, and some union members had more work and others did not, would those union members that did have work share the workload? Highly unlikely.

Do not even think to try and convince me that the union would pull an "all for one, one for all" mentality. You know very well that it the situation I described would result in a cutthroat mentality in which each and every union member would attempt to save his or her own skin.

I never said you can't be fired if you're in a union. Union contracts ensure that an employee won't be terminated without just cause. An employee isn't fired for just cause just because the employer says so, it must be proven. And if there is just cause, typically the union will not represent the employee beyond the standard grievance process. Furthermore, if there is a question as to just cause, most contracts provide for an arbitration process to address that issue.

And, if there isn't a union, and an employee is "fired" without just cause, he or she can file a complaint with the state labor board, or even contact a labor attorney.

If union contracts keep wages down, why do employers fight so hard to keep unions out? Do you work in a union shop? I think if you ask most individuals who either have or want union representation, one of the main reasons they want representation is to guarantee a more fair wage. If a contract calls for a merit raise, if the Union negotiators are worth their salt, they will ensure that certain objective requirements are in place so that raises are granted fairly. And even if they are not, contracts must be voted on by the members. The union cannot sign an agreement that is not voted on by the employees themselves.

Because of the "mob mentality." Most people who want "a more fair wage" are under the mistaken belief that the union will protect them from being laid off, and that once they are past the probation period, they do not have to "work hard" anymore.

If you wish to succeed beyond assembling widgets, you do not need a union to protect you.

This will not happen necessarily if a company is smart, but rather if a company is fair. You'll notice that most fair employers are not targeted by unions. Costco is non-union, but because they pay good wages and provide good benefits, there is less of a need for representation. Same thing with Motorola. Some companies are non-union simply because the employees don't really feel like they need them. But the truth is that most employers are not so generous (see Walmart). And unless employers take your advice and pay decent wages, and give decent raises to those who perform well, most employees will need representation. .

Incorrect. My SIL used to work for a non-union grocery store. It was a family owned store that was not open 24 hours, and they had most holidays off. The people enjoyed working there. When the regional store opened in her area, the police had to be called to keep the union picketers away from the front entrance of the store. In fact one time, when I went to pick her up, they almost surrounded my truck. They moved out of the way when I put the high beams on and revved the engine of my 4X4 black Dodge Magnum. :animwink:

In the case of Disney, if the increased wages ultimately means that the prices go up, I don't see anything wrong with that. Part of the cost to the consumer is the ultra-friendly service we come to expect from CMs. I believe they are entitled to a good wage, and I'm more than willing to pay for the exceptional service usually provided by Disney Cast Members.

And how many CM's will only look at the increased wage as: a) more money in their paycheck b) an insult by Disney in an attempt to pay them more money, or both ? Do you really think that giving a few more sheckles to the front line CMs will make the "bad apples" act any better?

Maybe the right thing to do is to find out what is really pi$$ing off the CMs ? What bothers them the most ? Could it be the low pay? Maybe. Could it be that supervisors and low level managers do not support the CMs regarding guest interaction? IE: attraction is closed, guest wants to ride, CM says attraction is closed, guest calls a manager, manager tells CM to let the guest ride.

 

[CRO-Magnum]

You are correct.

Also...when/if WDW rasies their wages, everyone else in Orlando will too....the cost of living will go up exponentially, and unskilled labor will be no better off.....nor will the hiring situation at WDW.

I did try to simplify. I assume very few people on this board work in the financial industry so I try make things palatable - not to insult but to educate.

However I disagree on your final point of the ripple effect of increasing wages. Yes it is a concern. However just because Disney increases wages does not mean every will for two reasons. One, not everyone needs to in order to get adequate staff. Disney needs to return to getting premium people which means premium pay. Second, not everyone can raise pay. Universal can with the backing of GE but the vast majority have limits. The increases in cost of living have reduced wallet share for goods and services putting pressure on them to not pass along wage increase costs. Bernake alluded to this point in the last Fed meeting (of course none of them actually says anything).

I have been trumpeting for years the real problem, more than wealth concentration, is power concentration in the hands of 60 fund managers who control a disproportionately large part of the market. And all with a 30-60 day outlook.

 

[wannab@dis]

I measure it by stock price or dividend. Disney's stock price hasn't changed since 2000. Yes ESPN is a great part of the acquisition but remember that ABC Family is also part of it. Disney's adjusted stock value in 1990 was $18. For the ABC acquisition to "pay off" for investors requires that the stock grow at a modest 8% per year, historic growth rate of the DJIA. Over 11 years that means the stock should be valued at a minimum of $42. Today's close was $30. Wow, a 4.8% annual growth rate. Gee, wow.

I honestly don't know what would have happened without the aquisition of ABC/ESPN. I don't think anyone can say with any acuracy. I can tell you that it generated losses during the early years, however, it has generated much of the growth over the past couple or three years. (I haven't kept up with the actuals, so I may be off some.)

Maybe it's still a negative or maybe it has turned positive. But what would have happened without the aquisitions is just a guess.

Stay tuned... in 10 or 15 years everyone may be screaming about how bad the Pixar purchase was for the company. Right now it's seen as the golden ticket to prosperity and change. (Oh, I guess Iger will be the villian of that era and everyone will be saying 'they should have listened to Eisner and went on their own.)

 

[socalkdg]

...to see if this is a mountain or a mole hill. In 1990 the starting wage at the theme parks was $5.35/hr ($6.35 in CRO). Starting wage is now $6.90/hr for an increase of $1.55 in 16 years. That comes to a compound annual increase of 1.6%. The same $5.35 1990 wage adjusted for inflation would be $8.43 today, an annualized compound growth rate of 2.9%

During that same timeframe Disney one day park admissions have gone from $31/day to $62/day which is a 100% increase or an annualized compound growth rate of 4.4%.

So no matter how you slice it, Disney has raised prices three times faster than wages and almost twice as fast as inflation.

Then again with Annual passes and the new extended stay ticket price decreases I can get into WDW for less than $25 per day. You would have to look at the average cost paid per person then and now to get an actual growth rate, just as you need to look at more then just the wage paid to an employee as the cost of doing business has went up due to large increases in taxes, insurance, workers comp. etc. Check those numbers and you will see both growth rates are similar.

Across the board increases are not the answer. Rewarding employees that are better workkers is the answer.

 

[wannab@dis]

Disney needs to return to getting premium people which means premium pay.

But are "Premium" people out there looking for unskilled jobs in the Orlando job market. I believe it was Speck76 that posted earlier that the job market is VERY lean... around 2%. I highly doubt that a small increase in the base wage (you mentioned $1) would have any affect on the capabilities or quality of the potential new hires.

We're not talking about IT, marketing or accounting positions or even first line managerial positions here... we're talking about the frontline employees.

 

[AEfx]

It insults me that people that have done nothing to improve themselves, or are lazy and think the pinnacle of responsibility is loading people onto the Dumbo ride, think they should be able to, or are entitled to the luxuries others have worked hard for, and have taken on "real responsiblity" for.......

It insults me that they feel I should open my wallet and pay more at the gate so they can skate through life.....

I'm glad you finally stopped hiding behind statistics long enough to admit that you just have that classic "lower-income people don't work hard enough" mentality.

Unfortunately, correcting a misconception like that is far beyond what one could convey on a message board, but I hope someday you learn that the world is not so black and white, no matter what your personal perspective is.

AEfx

 

[speck76]

I'm glad you finally stopped hiding behind statistics long enough to admit that you just have that classic "lower-income people don't work hard enough" mentality.

Unfortunately, correcting a misconception like that is far beyond what one could convey on a message board, but I hope someday you learn that the world is not so black and white, no matter what your personal perspective is.

AEfx

EVERYBODY has the ability to improve their situation....

 

[Disneyland1970]

And, so are union employees "at will" until they get through probation. Same with non-union employees. What does the seniority list do? It provides a list of union employees in senority order to be laid off. And in most unions the lower seniority members get screwed, usually from the higher and highest seniority members.

If the workload at a unionized company decreased and there were rumors of a layoff, would the union as a whole agree to say a 4 day work week to keep its union "brothers and sisters" ALL working? Highly unlikely. If the workload decreased, and some union members had more work and others did not, would those union members that did have work share the workload? Highly unlikely.

Do not even think to try and convince me that the union would pull an "all for one, one for all" mentality. You know very well that it the situation I described would result in a cutthroat mentality in which each and every union member would attempt to save his or her own skin.




And, if there isn't a union, and an employee is "fired" without just cause, he or she can file a complaint with the state labor board, or even contact a labor attorney.




Because of the "mob mentality." Most people who want "a more fair wage" are under the mistaken belief that the union will protect them from being laid off, and that once they are past the probation period, they do not have to "work hard" anymore.

If you wish to succeed beyond assembling widgets, you do not need a union to protect you.




Incorrect. My SIL used to work for a non-union grocery store. It was a family owned store that was not open 24 hours, and they had most holidays off. The people enjoyed working there. When the regional store opened in her area, the police had to be called to keep the union picketers away from the front entrance of the store. In fact one time, when I went to pick her up, they almost surrounded my truck. They moved out of the way when I put the high beams on and revved the engine of my 4X4 black Dodge Magnum. :animwink:



And how many CM's will only look at the increased wage as: a) more money in their paycheck b) an insult by Disney in an attempt to pay them more money, or both ? Do you really think that giving a few more sheckles to the front line CMs will make the "bad apples" act any better?

Maybe the right thing to do is to find out what is really pi$$ing off the CMs ? What bothers them the most ? Could it be the low pay? Maybe. Could it be that supervisors and low level managers do not support the CMs regarding guest interaction? IE: attraction is closed, guest wants to ride, CM says attraction is closed, guest calls a manager, manager tells CM to let the guest ride.

Please do not preach your made up ideals of what your brother in law, sisters, GF, dodge magnum mechanic told you of how a union works. ( Queue the banjo!) You are so for off you are not even wrong!

Thanks, my next visit I will complain about Timekeeper. Can't wait to see it again:brick:

Oh yea...at $6.50 an hour you can't afford a Happy Meal,let alone a Labor Attorney . Now your union has a lawyer free of charge for use......

 

[Disneyland1970]

EVERYBODY has the ability to improve their situation....

I agree., I think the guy running Dumbo should be pre- law Harvard. And the churro cart... hmmmmm YALE? Yes Ivy league at less than $7 an hour!

C'mon at 18 and 19 they are just trying to keep above water. Trying to make some money and figure out life and work somewhere fun. A raise is trying to improve themselves.

I think you are just mad you didn't get a raise when you worked for Disney:lol: