Two Spirited Quickees...Imagination closing

[Belowthesurface]

But if there were no fp... Those guests would just be using the exit or similar. Basically their impact is the same with or without fp... So they aren't relevant to what fp causes

I think the impact would be less if Disney knew it did not have a FP line anymore. There would be less encouragement of trying to get people on rides as compensation and less handing out of GAC cards.

Disney World survived for almost 30 years without these various lines and types of passes.

 

[ParentsOf4]

so is there anything going on in this thread besides another FP debate?

Sure, the most recent official FAQ (along with inquires I made) suggests:

• 4 FP+ experiences per day, up from 3. (Original testing from 2012 allocated 4 FP+ experiences per day.)
• FP+ testing will continue. It seems the most recent limited test in June did not go particularly well.
• Only onsite guests with vacation packages will be "eligible" for FastPass+ while the system remains in test.
• Disney received strong negative feedback on the "groupings" offered for FP+ selections. It seems guests want to be able to pick whatever they want. Consequently, Disney may eliminate these. If these groupings are eliminated, I'm not sure how many will use FP+ selections for It's a Small World.
• FP+ experiences will be linked to tickets. For example, a 7-day ticket receives 7 days worth of FP+.
• Eventually DVC members will be eligible for FP+ but will need to link their tickets to their DVC point stays. Details to be announced (much?) later.
• No official word on how FP+ eventually will work for offsite guests. For now, they will only be able to use FP.

P.S. The last point has me wondering if WDW is considering keeping FP permanently for offsite guests.

Originally, FP+ was supposed to completely replace FP. Now, because of scalability issues, I'm wondering (can't find a source to confirm this one way or the other) whether Disney is considering making FP+ an onsite-only perk.

 

[Belowthesurface]

Regardless of "mathematical" equations or "enhancing the Guest experience!" and "helping to create even more memories!" this system brings in a lot of complaints and Guest/Cast situations.

The perception of it frustrates a lot of Guests.

"You are in the wrong line." "This is the Fastpass line only."You don't have a Fastpass, please turn around and leave."

"Why don't you let more of us in the Stand-by line in!?" "Why are you letting some many of them in!?"

This system creates unnecessary conflict and disappointment.

"You could have got a Fastpass, but you didn't!"

"These Guests have reserved this time to ride, so we pay more attention to that line."

It's a series of small rejections and bad news.

 

[Belowthesurface]

Sure, the most recent official FAQ (along with inquires I made) suggests:

• 4 FP+ experiences per day, up from 3. (Original testing from 2012 allocated 4 FP+ experiences per day.)
• FP+ testing will continue. It seems the most recent limited test in June did not go particularly well.
• Only onsite guests with vacation packages will be "eligible" for FastPass+ while the system remains in test.
• Disney received strong negative feedback on the "groupings" offered for FP+ selections. It seems guests want to be able to pick whatever they want. Consequently, Disney may eliminate these. If these groupings are eliminated, I'm not sure how many will use FP+ selections for It's a Small World.
• FP+ experiences will be linked to tickets. For example, a 7-day ticket receives 7 days worth of FP+.
• Eventually DVC members will be eligible for FP+ but will need to link their tickets to their DVC point stays. Details to be announced (much?) later.
• No word on how FP+ will work for offsite guests. For now, they will only be able to use FP.

And more attractions will have permanent outside queues in the Florida heat for you to wait in because the FP has increased the wait for SB of an attraction that never had a FP and was not designed for a system like this.

 

[bubbles1812]

No, overall wait includes the amount of time from getting your FP ticket from the machine to getting on the ride. During that time, you are waiting to go on the ride. You are not standing in a queue, but you are waiting.

This is the fundamental point that, as I have said, people here do not get. You, ParentsOf4, others... you all think a FP holder waits five minutes. That is 100% conceptually inaccurate and 100% not debatable.

Under almost all circumstances, FP holders wait longer than people in the stand-by queue. They just do it in a computer while they walk around the park.

Who just walks around the parks waiting for the FP to come up? I go on other rides, often more than 1, before my FP time comes up.

 

[flynnibus]

I think the impact would be less if Disney knew it did not have a FP line anymore. There would be less encouragement of trying to get people on rides as compensation and less handing out of GAC cards.

Disney World survived for almost 30 years without these various lines and types of passes.

Not true - Disneyworld has always had a form of this special assistance for those in need. Even back in the 80s people would get in wheelchairs to get 'front of the line' action. The GAC is just the current evolution of things.. and now back by laws like the ADA. Disney was offering special assistance to the disabled long before it was law.

 

[HMF]

Agree.
When word reached my ears that Bruce Broughton was to do the new score for the refurbed SSE in 07' i was thrilled. I really enjoy many of his past scores..some truly epic, soaring themes ( Dinosaur, Treasure Planet, Rescuers Down Under i believe too..).

Once SSE reopened, i was eager to hear the new music.
After the first ride, i was unwhelmed. The new narration and presentation put me off, but just focusing on the music left me to wonder if Bruce actually was involved in the score at all. It was not quite in league with his other wonderful works and general quality.
His works are famous for their soaring themes.
It seemed a wasted opportunity, but then again he could have possibly been told by the ride designers what type of 'feel' they wanted for music.
I get that impression listening to it...as Bruce could have really knocked it out of the ball park. Most of his past works stand out in that way.

Why not SSE?
....

It's not really that the music is bad, the problem I see is it feels like an underscore, an afterthought whereas with 94 it felt that the music complimented the scenes and narration and overall message. The best part of the current score is 180 top but even with that it feels quite clichéd as though he was reading a show note from WDI saying "Make this sound epic" It's a nice melody but it isn't very original nor does it have the scope of it's 1994 or even it's 1986 counterparts. The music in the 1994 version sounds like that music was meant to go with that scene or that piece of narration, whereas, you can use the 07 score to underscore just about anything.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Not true - Disneyworld has always had a form of this special assistance for those in need. Even back in the 80s people would get in wheelchairs to get 'front of the line' action. The GAC is just the current evolution of things.. and now back by laws like the ADA. Disney was offering special assistance to the disabled long before it was law.

Well, not entirely true. They did have a system, but it took more then tooling up there with a wheelchair. You were mostly sent to the exit and only a certain number of people with mobility problems were allowed on the ride at any given time, so that translated into some pretty long waits at times. The only place that had true wheelchair access was Epcot. You could physically put the person and the wheelchair on Energy (Ellen and before) and WoM had special cars that automatically limited how many were on it at the same time. You had to wait for it even though it was an omnimover. I don't know exactly how many could be within the building (on the ride) at the same time, but I do know you had to wait for an empty one to ride. They lowered a rear gate while the ride was still in motion and they pushed the chair on and the wheels dropped into slots in the floors that kept it from moving during the ride and one (1) companion was able to ride in the same car with the person. Reverse that procedure at the end of the line. So in other words they were directed to alternate locations from the regular line, but not even close to being "front of the line" unless your timing was exquisite.

 

[RSoxNo1]

FP+ is a lean manufacturing transformation. FP+ will serve to baseload all attractions with daily number of available seats. By manipulating the baseloading of attractions, WDW will be able to shift customer load to underloaded attractions (i.e. CoP).

Current FP allows for a time segment when loading for the ride is inelastic based on standby wait times. Once FP's are exhausted, line loading becomes purely elastic based on wait times discounting ride popularity. I.E. "The wait time is too long, therefore I will pass up the ride in favor of a ride with acceptable standby wait times."

If CoP fails to achieve a minimum acceptable baseload, a day will come where the attraction will be replaced. There is no place in lean manufacturing for nostalgia.

If WDW truly wants to lower wait times with current ride capacity, they should introduce dedicated singles lines. Where singles or groups who do not mind splitting up can fill that last empty seat that is available when a group of three is sitting in a four seat row. This works well at ski resorts, however, due to the cultural diversity at WDW, this may lead to more problems than any possible solution.

This can all be done without Fastpass+. For a company as "fat" as Disney is, I would hardly consider going after the Fastpass system as it's first LEAN initiative.

If you want to spread the crowds you build new rides elsewhere in the park, you're never going to increase the demand for an attraction without refurbishing it or replacing it. Anybody that thinks otherwise should be fired.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Sure, the most recent official FAQ (along with inquires I made) suggests:

• 4 FP+ experiences per day, up from 3. (Original testing from 2012 allocated 4 FP+ experiences per day.)
• FP+ testing will continue. It seems the most recent limited test in June did not go particularly well.
• Only onsite guests with vacation packages will be "eligible" for FastPass+ while the system remains in test.
• Disney received strong negative feedback on the "groupings" offered for FP+ selections. It seems guests want to be able to pick whatever they want. Consequently, Disney may eliminate these. If these groupings are eliminated, I'm not sure how many will use FP+ selections for It's a Small World.
• FP+ experiences will be linked to tickets. For example, a 7-day ticket receives 7 days worth of FP+.
• Eventually DVC members will be eligible for FP+ but will need to link their tickets to their DVC point stays. Details to be announced (much?) later.
• No official word on how FP+ eventually will work for offsite guests. For now, they will only be able to use FP.

P.S. The last point has me wondering if WDW is considering keeping FP permanently for offsite guests.

Originally, FP+ was supposed to completely replace FP. Now, because of scalability issues, I'm wondering (can't find a source to confirm this one way or the other) whether Disney is considering making FP+ an onsite-only perk.

Does anyone have a link to the recent FAQ that says 4 FP+ experiences?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Does anyone have a link to the recent FAQ that says 4 FP+ experiences?

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/

See:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/number-reservations/

in particular.

 

[kucarachi]

the lights aren't twinkling Clark...

 

[Nubs70]

This can all be done without Fastpass+. For a company as "fat" as Disney is, I would hardly consider going after the Fastpass system as it's first LEAN initiative.

If you want to spread the crowds you build new rides elsewhere in the park, you're never going to increase the demand for an attraction without refurbishing it or replacing it. Anybody that thinks otherwise should be fired.

I'm sure it's not their first lean initiative either. The intriguing thing about WDW in the past was that, as a guest, one did not really see the lean aspects unless you looked very closely. MM+ puts it right out in front of you and tells you that you are a piece of material that needs to be processed in the most efficient manner while extracting maximum value.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, not entirely true. They did have a system, but it took more then tooling up there with a wheelchair. You were mostly sent to the exit and only a certain number of people with mobility problems were allowed on the ride at any given time, so that translated into some pretty long waits at times. The only place that had true wheelchair access was Epcot. You could physically put the person and the wheelchair on Energy (Ellen and before) and WoM had special cars that automatically limited how many were on it at the same time. You had to wait for it even though it was an omnimover. I don't know exactly how many could be within the building (on the ride) at the same time, but I do know you had to wait for an empty one to ride. They lowered a rear gate while the ride was still in motion and they pushed the chair on and the wheels dropped into slots in the floors that kept it from moving during the ride and one (1) companion was able to ride in the same car with the person. Reverse that procedure at the end of the line. So in other words they were directed to alternate locations from the regular line, but not even close to being "front of the line" unless your timing was exquisite.

The point was Disney had accommodations for guests with other needs too. The GAC is just disney's latest attempt at trying to streamline it so cms at the attractions aren't making judgment calls.

I know in 90 my father's back went out right before our wdw trip and I had to push him around in a wheelchair for the entire trip - and we basically bypassed all lines. Ymmv I guess

 

[flynnibus]

This can all be done without Fastpass+. For a company as "fat" as Disney is, I would hardly consider going after the Fastpass system as it's first LEAN initiative.

If you want to spread the crowds you build new rides elsewhere in the park, you're never going to increase the demand for an attraction without refurbishing it or replacing it. Anybody that thinks otherwise should be fired.

Building more fixed capacity rather than optimizing it would be the opposite of lean. I'm not sure you are familiar with the concept referenced here.

Think 'just in time' manufacturing... That is closely associated with lean

 

[flynnibus]

Comments like this are just deflections to the actual topic at hand

You don't prove causation by illustrating the absence of it results in the inverse. Such attempts not only fail simple logic, they are prone to linking the wrong properties because it assumes the cause rather than explicitly linking them through experimentation and isolation. Simple translation... You're guessing based on what you think the links maybe.

. It's a pointless test. I won't waste time working out a case that is worthless. Which apparently trying to explain the scientific method here is proving to be as well. I have no tolerance for this anymore

 

[disney fan 13]

You're guessing as well. You speak in absolutes yet you have no evidence or scientifically analyzed data to prove your hypothesis. Science is all about guessing. The scientific method itself is derived from guessing and asking questions.Telling people who disagree with you they're disregarding simple logic for having a different view and asking different questions is illogical in and of itself.

I spend a lot of time in the scientific field and while I don't know it all, I know enough to realize that when discussing Disney World, we are not scientists. We cannot possibly attain enough data to make a sound, credible determination of who is right and wrong. We only have our opinions as we as theme park goers attempt to make sense of a system that for some, can logically be portrayed as a product that artificially increases Stand By wait times.

I believe FP does increase Stand By waits based on prior observations and logical calculations regarding the acceptance ratio of FP guests to Stand By guests and the place-holding "virtual" wait FP creates, that tends to stagnate Stand By guests in line. You have the right to disagree, however the condescending tone in your dismissal of other opinions is not appreciated. You give off the vibe that you know-it-all, when in reality, you don't.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Belowthesurface]

Not true - Disneyworld has always had a form of this special assistance for those in need. Even back in the 80s people would get in wheelchairs to get 'front of the line' action. The GAC is just the current evolution of things.. and now back by laws like the ADA. Disney was offering special assistance to the disabled long before it was law.

The point I'm making is that the FP line is full of GAC cards and other people who otherwise wouldn't be there if only FP was let through.

It's frustrating when you could possibly have a gap in the FP line to please the Guests in SB and then a ton of GAC cards enter the FP line.

I say it all the time, ask anyone who works with this system and you will understand why it should not exist.

 

[pheneix]

Just imagine if they actually built more attractions that had appeal to handle the crowds...

One of the reasons why Universal Orlando is adding attractions as fast as they can. For the first time ever in their existence as a two park resort, they need the capacity.

 

[flynnibus]

The point I'm making is that the FP line is full of GAC cards and other people who otherwise wouldn't be there

And that's what's wrong with your point - they would still be there! The fact they are standing in the fp queue instead of coming up another ramp is irrelevant. They both cut in front of the people waiting in standby .

GAC is its own problem *independent* of fp