Two coasts: One very different world

[WDW1974]

But yeah, after seeing those videos recently ... I'd say 1990 quality would be fine with me too. They could never do TDR quality.[/quote]
I know that you have said in the past that TDR quality coming to WDW is unlikely, whether from Disney or a new owner/operator. Is it a matter of cost, logistical problems, etc? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Also, once the new management team at Burbank is in place, do you think that they would focus on WDW?[/quote]

Yes, quality and having and adhering to standards costs more money. Logistically, well ... Disney has conditioned guests that certain things are acceptable (like taking food and beverages into queues) that once weren't and they'd have to work on the basics (like telling guests, no, it isn't OK for you to put your shoes on tables and sofas in lobbies, even if you're a pig and would do so at home).

But it's really a very complicated proposition. Once you lower quality, it's very hard to get people to believe you're a premium brand again.

McDonald's was once thought of in a much better light than it has the past 20 years or so, and that's because they changed what made them successful (anyone recall when they had dining room attendants who would bus tables and make sure you never sat down at a table that was filthy?)

I can't answer the other part of your question until we actually have new management in place and I know who they are.

 

[WDW1974]

So that's why there have been missing ceiling tiles in Small World for 5+ years? Makes perfect sense now!

Actually, there's a real inside story of bumbling incompetence in the Small World case ... but I am not completely sure of the facts, so I haven't really posted about it.

I do know the empty ceiling tiles have something to do with how botched the big (wasn't it in 2003 or 04?) rehab when they added the fake DL facade inside and swapped the entrance and exits around. The contractors did something very big that wasn't right and the building has had issues since ... and, yes, that's why the tiles are missing.

It isn't just sloppy work.

 

[Tom]

Actually, there's a real inside story of bumbling incompetence in the Small World case ... but I am not completely sure of the facts, so I haven't really posted about it.

I do know the empty ceiling tiles have something to do with how botched the big (wasn't it in 2003 or 04?) rehab when they added the fake DL facade inside and swapped the entrance and exits around. The contractors did something very big that wasn't right and the building has had issues since ... and, yes, that's why the tiles are missing.

It isn't just sloppy work.

I'm a general contractor, and I've been trying for years to figure out why those tiles are missing. I'd love to hear if someone ACTUALLY knows. If I recall, they've been replaced with a grating of some sort, but there seems to be no reason...unless it has to do with air pressures in the different rooms, and needing to equalize the rooms more.

 

[WDW1974]

I really believe Ricky is fair in his assessments of things. He's not mean about it, he's not vicious about it, but he will acknowledge when he's been comped and still treat it fairly.

I don't know enough about him to comment much. I do know that some people went after him in the Twitverse 3-4 months ago about being too positive on WDW and shying away from anything negative and he responded something along the lines of 'I would rather cover positive things ... it's my site ... yada, yada, yada.'

I did see him say that this recent trip to DLR (all comped you can be sure) made him look at WDW in a bit of a different light, and I respect him for saying that.

Sites like this had enough support when Facebook and Twitter picked up steam, but I know there have been rumors posted on Facebook and Twitter that have been brought to these boards for verification. Facebook and Twitter have definitely killed a niche type discussion forum like this. We had forums linked to our site but found Facebook to be a much better medium for discussion.

I can't stand FB and I think Twitter is a sign of the end of days. And to think people try and use Twitter for discussion is absurd (I know they do).

But see if you do so then you don't have to worry about people criticizing your opinions, and you can say anything you like (that Spirit is such an , he is but only his family and friends have the right to say so!) with no worry that someone will call you on it. I think the folks who read this forum, have strong opinions and won't post are cowards. Plain and simple.

And I could have sworn you were on a honeymoon in Alaska. I know I am strange, but I were on either a honeymoon or in Alaska (let alone both) I wouldn't be spending time discussing WDW with a bunch of crazies online!

How dare you.

Oh, I dare ... c'mon, don't you REALLY want to have those hourly traffic updates from the hot babe who can barely speak in complete sentences?

This is an excellent point. For things like the Yeti to be fixed it still needs to be picked up by a major media outlet. There was an article (I believe it was Jason Garcia) about the Disco Yeti, and that started from a poster on this forum. I believe Lee was actually quoted in the article. This is the type of stuff that needs to happen more often. That was one article that ultimately went away, persistence is key here.

Lee is a for attention. It's so sad. I think he's looking for someone to do a story on his singing ... last time I called him he started singing 'Kiss the Girl' to me!

But Garcia just doesn't seem like he has what it takes to take on Disney. He seems content to 'cover' news so much as rewrite press releases or talk to his sources when Disney or UNI announce something. In the news business, there's something called 'enterprise reporting' and Garcia stays away from it. It could be something on the safety of the monorail system at WDW ... the overbuilding of timeshares in O-Town (DVC and others) and how the market is flooded with people looking to literally give theirs away ... it could be on pedophiles cruising local water parks etc. ... But he seems to have no stomach for doing anything that might bring people in power down on him.

 

[WDW1974]

I had some more thoughts on DVC members, and what happens when they do make complaints.
DVC wanted to change out glass for paper cups, and styrofoam for ceramic coffee mugs in the studio villas. The membership at large had a fit, and wrote letters to everyone in the chain of command, including the DVC magazine, myself included. The glass, and ceramics were returned.
DVC had to retrofit, or redo the rooms at Bay Lake Towers because of complaints from the members. The latest complaint being shoddy furniture/fixtures at Bay Lake Towers, and the wear and tear already showing. Housekeeping is another hot topic.
DVC members do band together to set things right, but on DVC forums about DVC, not the parks specifically.
The more chance the DVC members have to compare CA, and Disney Sea with WDW, the more chance of noticing whats wrong. Also remember DVC members usually come from a distance, and just being at WDW for a week is a treat, never mind complaining about Yeti. We also spend less time going commando in the parks, and stay at our resort more, cook dinner in etc. The Disney Dining Plan is a huge sore point for a lot of us, and a boon to the others.
However, being a DLR fanboi, I did complain about my home park, ten years ago. I did go to guest relations and mention problems I saw. I did write letters.
I and my band of Disney freaks also made sure we stopped into guest relations with compliments when Disney got things right, every time we noticed something great, new paint, when Murphy was added to Fantazmic etc.
I haven't complained about WDW mainly because I haven't been in 2 years, and not seen things for myself. Perhaps DVC is tracking my vacations , and may wonder why I am spending all my DVC points in CA, instead of FLA. If they ask I'll tell them why. Nothing new to see, and a lot of new things to see in CA.
We also bought Premier AP's thinking we would go to FLA, and CA, and that we'd save some bucks. That changed when we nixed our FLA vacation. So now we are using our Premier AP to get into Disneyland, and DCA, and for discounts all over the resort. I can't believe Disney is not tracking us through our AP and how we use it. The bean counters are probably having fits of joy at the money we spent on our AP's, but perhaps marketing, or other entity is asking why we aren't at WDW?

That's sort of what I thought and said, DVCers seem more interested in the small stuff that affects them than in the big picture of the parks.

As to tracking, I think Disney is almost incapable of that. I'm probably one of a tiny percentage of people (well under one percent that has had an AP for WDW, DLP and HKDL all within two years time), but the only way anyone at Disney will know that is if someone happens to be monitoring me (Steve, I need the waving smiley!!) here. There's no internal way of combining that type of info, which in 2012 is absolutely mindblowing.

So, I'm sure the last thing Disney is thinking about is why you are only visiting DL or cruising out of LA.

Oh, and while DVC expansion in SoCal is being discussed. It doesn't seem to be a priority. If DLR gets a huge attendance bump from DCA 2.0, then that might change.

 

[WDW1974]

No. Less than half that.

If it were 500 mil however, WDI would charge 750m for the same thing.

I would have said $1.25 billion myself.

 

[WDW1974]

We've been DVC since 2008. We're using points to go with friends in November and are staying at BLT (I'm anxious to see the rooms since our first visit was right after it opened, and we got to experience the less than stellar rooms). However, for the first time every, we're going to use our 2013 points and head to DLR sometime Spring or early Summer 2013.

We've bled WDW, and never really had an interest to venture west...but after all the hype about the classic attractions being superior to MK's, and hearing how the parks are taken care of, and now the addition of Cars Land and BVS, it's time spend our money out there.

We're just one party, but maybe this will become a trend and someone will notice.

Good. Time to stop making excuses, put down the WDW Pixie Dust pipe and head west. It isn't that scary and you'll feel so much better once you do (except perhaps about buying into DVC to start with).

Oh, and I know I owe you (and about 5-6 others) an email.

 

[_Scar]

WDW gets too much attendance, and the people running it feel people will still come to a stale park (and we all still do). It's an endless cycle that can only be changed by getting more people in power positions. However, is it that big of a deal? Nope. It's still in the same "world".

 

[flynnibus]

Sites like this had enough support when Facebook and Twitter picked up steam, but I know there have been rumors posted on Facebook and Twitter that have been brought to these boards for verification. Facebook and Twitter have definitely killed a niche type discussion forum like this. We had forums linked to our site but found Facebook to be a much better medium for discussion

That is a short term fad that will bite you in the a$# later.

Know why Facebook works well for you? Notification and placement... Facebook notifications are even more 'alive' than email these days. Sure forums can email you, but the little red '1' on your facebook app or page is too tempting people can't overlook it and must click. The more real-time the conversation, the more lively it will tend to be.

Placement is significant because it puts your 'stories' right in what is the Portal for most people now and where they spend the most time.. Facebook.

But this is actually bad for you long term. Why?

- You don't control the content.. it can be heavily modified on you at any time
- Search is almost non-existant..
- Its FB's site.. not yours. You'll never get a foundation where you can drive traffic to YOUR site and monetize yourself
- There is almost zero historical stuff that is easily managed. The content scrolls down and its impossible for users to get back to it later. It's all buried in FB's servers - but entirely inaccessible to the average being

So while FB may work for the 'right here, right now' - its not a sustainable platform that will serve you long term for discussions or content that have relevance longer than 12-24hrs.

That's why FB's current platform is not a real threat to discussion forums as a principle.

The notification element is a bit why you see the feature like you see in this forum with alerts... but placement in people's #1 time waster (Facebook) is hard to beat.

 

[TalkingHead]

Actually, there's a real inside story of bumbling incompetence in the Small World case ... but I am not completely sure of the facts, so I haven't really posted about it.

I do know the empty ceiling tiles have something to do with how botched the big (wasn't it in 2003 or 04?) rehab when they added the fake DL facade inside and swapped the entrance and exits around. The contractors did something very big that wasn't right and the building has had issues since ... and, yes, that's why the tiles are missing.

It isn't just sloppy work.

I knew the ceiling had been like for a long time -- I could believe 8-9 years.

I'd never heard the story about why the ceiling is in disrepair. Curiouser and curiouser.

BTW, what grade did you give the restrooms at DLP and BGW?

 

[MUTZIE77]

I do not post often, but 74's points are completely valid. My first trip to WDW was in 2000 so I never experienced the heyday of WDW. I do however recogonize the fact that each park within WDW is stale. All of my points have been made over and over but here goes. MK has gone 20 years without a major E-ticket attraction, and with the FLE yeah we are getting a great new themed area. The sad part is that none of the money being spent will give you a WOW moment. Epcot has an adandoned pavilion, one that might as well be abandoned, UOE is in desperate need of a redo, and for some reason we are still soarin over california. DHS has had one new attraction and a Star Tours 2.0 since the late 90's. I think DHS has a ton of potential but the theme is being butchered by Pixar place and every rumor of a new pixar place attraction that pops up every now and then. AK is a beautifully underbuilt park, but hey at least we are getting Avatar.....right? I mean its going to look like it belongs right? I still dont get that. The yeti is an embarassment to the WDC and that goes right back to the point of AK being underbuilt. I joined DVC in 2009 and since then, correct me if I'm wrong, there have been ZERO new attractions across 4 parks. I regret buying in because of this. After FLE we might get Avatar, but then what? Are there any attractions coing down the pipe for any of the other parks? For me DVC works out well, and dont get me wrong I still love WDW, but it just feeds TDO more reasons to sit back and not spend on new "knock your socks" off attractions. The only thing management will listen to is $$$$. This year my money goes to DCL and next year I will be taking my first trip to DLR.

 

[JustChillinBro]

Attendance has never been higher. Guest spending has never been higher. Profit has never been higher. Stock price has never been higher.

But they're supposed to change the way they do business, right? Because something like fifty 40-year-old+ men on forums.WDWMAGIC.com think the bumblebees not spinning is the greatest problem in the history of the World? Oh my gosh, the tiles on it's a small world! The planets don't move on Astro Orbiter!

Starting another website about what effects are "broken" is a superb idea though. I bet WDC has no idea the yeti isn't working and it would really benefit them to have that fact brought to their attention. I bet people are going to be clamoring to find out which animatronics on Ellen's Energy Adventure aren't working. Maybe WDW1974 can write a Huffington Post article and bring these great problems to the attention of America. LOL!

And I'm laughing out loud at sticking it to Disney by going to DISNEYland. Or on a DISNEY cruise. Great work there. Go to Gettysburg. Go to Paris (not the Disney theme park there!) Go to the Grand Canyon.

 

[Tom]

Good. Time to stop making excuses, put down the WDW Pixie Dust pipe and head west. It isn't that scary and you'll feel so much better once you do (except perhaps about buying into DVC to start with).

Oh, and I know I owe you (and about 5-6 others) an email.

We're actually very excited about it. I'm going to enjoy our relaxing stay at BLT this November, but I'll be anxiously awaiting our first trip to Anaheim in the Spring....well, probably May-ish.

Can't let go of the Pixie Dust, just need to switch brands

re: e-mail...not sure why I'm not on the top of your priority list. I mean...c'mon! It's not like you have anything else to do, besides hog all of Steve's bandwidth!

 

[ellie-badge]

I think we should all step back for a minute and keep in mind that Magic Kingdom is the most attended theme park in the entire world, and has been for many years now. While I completely agree that there should be more things that are new, exciting, and of high quality at the world, specifically Magic Kingdom, Disney unfortunately does not share the same opinion regarding the situation. From Disney's point of view, they have little reason to put so much money into improving something that has been working just fine for many, many years. In other words, why try to fix what isn't yet broken?

With that being said, they had more than enough reason to put as much money as they did into revamping the entirety of Disney California Adventure, as that park has been moseying its way down in attendance for a very long time, especially with it being in such close proximity to Disneyland. Since when was the last time you heard of an entire theme park, much less a Disney theme park, being such a disappointment that the company decided to work endlessly for five+ years and spend over one billion dollars to totally re-imagine it?

Jumping back into the topic of Magic Kingdom, the original poster has clearly made the impression that our sister parks on the east coast have next to nothing new to offer guests to coincide with all of the grand openings and re-openings over on the west coast. While I can definitely sympathize with those who want all of the construction here to wrap up and open to the public (it's hard not to be excited!), it makes perfect sense that Disney is taking their time with things in the world. Hypothetically speaking, if Disney had decided to finish construction on Fantastyland and Storybook Circus and open everything all at once the same day, week, or even month as DCA and Cars Land, the two parks would be butting heads and competing with each other for attendance more so than they usually would be.

In short, this is Disney's chance to allow the limelight to shine on Disney California Adventure for once, something that it's desperately needed and now has most definitely deserved. Understandably, they would want all of the real attention and hype directed over on the west coast instead of the east, as I’m sure they’d like all of their effort and hard work over there to pay off and not go to waste… which I’m assuming is the main reason as to why all we’re currently getting is a few kiddy play areas.

Perusing through the first page of comments, it’s seemed like most, if not all of you have already forgotten about the massive Fantasyland expansion and re-theming of Mickey’s Toontown Fair, which I found astounding (and I’m sorry in advance if all of this has been said in the pages of comments before me). I’m not sure if it’s purely because of impatience or what, but either way, I find it rather silly that so many of you are so ridiculously bothered about this, especially knowing about all of the decently nice things that we’re going to be getting in the coming few years.

With how beautifully detailed and colorful the new kiddy areas are, it’s giving me quite a lot of hope for what’s in store for us when the good stuff actually opens to the public, rather than making me angry that it’s all they’re currently opening up to us. When everything is finally said and done, we’ll be getting quite a lot in the end: Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid (which, last I checked, will be opening December of this year), The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, The Be Our Guest Restaurant, a new princess meet-and-greet, a decent expansion of Dumbo the Flying Elephant, a re-theming of The Barnstormer, and… oh, yeah, a huge re-theming of Mickey’s Toontown Fair, which had long overstayed its welcome as an initially temporary land. I am particularly excited to see the finished product that will be Storybook Circus, as I’m assuming Disney will be making it look and feel more timeless than its predecessor, and I have a feeling the new Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station reflects what’s to come rather positively.

Yes, our Fantasyland expansion and re-theming/demolition of Mickey’s Toontown Fair isn’t on as much of a grand scale as what’s just opened over at DCA, but all things considering, we really are getting quite a lot. When nobody looks at the big picture, looking at what’s new in California to what’s new in Florida is like comparing apples and oranges—while new and exciting, they’re very, very dissimilar projects that should not be compared with each other.

I apologize for the wall of text, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in.

 

[Lee]

Because something like fifty 40-year-old+ men on forums.WDWMAGIC.com think the bumblebees not spinning is the greatest problem in the history of the World? Oh my gosh, the tiles on it's a small world! The planets don't move on Astro Orbiter!

Just to be sure I'm getting this straight...
Those things you listed are ok with you?
So long as the company is making money, it is acceptable to allow quality to decline?
Show quality is secondary to profit?

Just askin' to be sure where you're coming from...

 

[HMF]

Attendance has never been higher. Guest spending has never been higher. Profit has never been higher. Stock price has never been higher.

Spoken like a true Wall Street sharp pencil boy.

 

[MUTZIE77]

Attendance has never been higher. Guest spending has never been higher. Profit has never been higher. Stock price has never been higher.

But they're supposed to change the way they do business, right? Because something like fifty 40-year-old+ men on forums.WDWMAGIC.com think the bumblebees not spinning is the greatest problem in the history of the World? Oh my gosh, the tiles on it's a small world! The planets don't move on Astro Orbiter!

Starting another website about what effects are "broken" is a superb idea though. I bet WDC has no idea the yeti isn't working and it would really benefit them to have that fact brought to their attention. I bet people are going to be clamoring to find out which animatronics on Ellen's Energy Adventure aren't working. Maybe WDW1974 can write a Huffington Post article and bring these great problems to the attention of America. LOL!

And I'm laughing out loud at sticking it to Disney by going to DISNEYland. Or on a DISNEY cruise. Great work there. Go to Gettysburg. Go to Paris (not the Disney theme park there!) Go to the Grand Canyon.

Dont wet yourself Bro. Just because you are happy with mediocrity doesn't mean we all have to be.

 

[Lee]

Just a thought...
There has been another poster here, a few times actually, that liked to throw around that "40-year old" line.
Bullsforthewin or another alias?

 

[Tom]

Just a thought...
There has been another poster here, a few times actually, that liked to throw around that "40-year old" line.
Bullsforthewin or another alias?

That post aged me 9 years too....dang, that hurt.

 

[MUTZIE77]

That post aged me 9 years too....dang, that hurt.

it aged me 15