Two coasts: One very different world

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe that is a good definition... but, his posts have simply been the opposite end of the spectrum of '74. He says the group that always complains doesn't matter and '74 doesn't think walmart shoppers, pixie dust sniffers or whatever other derogatory name he comes up doesn't matter. Both have similar posting styles (not necessarily substance) with opposite messages. Personally, somewhere in the middle would be better. If '74 would tone down the hyperbole some and get the D&G group to focus on major issues instead of the shotgun approach currently used, maybe some improvements could be seen! Constructive criticism goes a lot further with most people than the overly critical.

Aim low, and you please only those with low expectations. Aim high and you not only amaze those with low expectations, but also please those with high expectations. Disney used to aim high in Orlando. They've decided its easier and cheaper to aim low. Not personally caring that some people only have low expectations is different than constantly trying to pick a fight by telling people they are full of it and they do not matter.

 

[koryadams]

I am not sure what makes Walt Disney World "mediocre" now because you have a list of maybe 20 attraction effects that need to be "fixed." Or whatever gripes you have otherwise? I asked for a list of what you wanted, but you declined. Instead, I'm supposed to read 15,000 posts over the span of several years and surmise what you want. I am not going to do that.

There is no pleasing you people. They are spending 500 million on Avatar. But you don't want Avatar. It wasn't the "right thing" (in your opinion). They are dropping whatever it costs on building New Fantasyland. But that isn't what you want either. You have decided that you deserve something else. They are spending however many billions on the "NextGen" project but you have decided that you don't want that either. Even though you don't know what "it" is, yet. Oh but you do know, right? Because you are privy? A big Downtown Disney redo is upcoming. But you want your Adventurer's Club back because everyone knew your name there (even though they wish they didn't).

By all means, whine to each other. Pat each other on the back. After all, if you are not satisfied, you are superior! Can you imagine all of these people that are satisfied with their vacation? I am so much better than them because I am not satisfied!

You are completely right! I feel the same way. AND people want to Ban you? wow...

 

[Gracy_hm]

I think both sides want what is best for the parks and clearly we all are here because our passion for design and escape. I think that is enough common ground to find a peaceful resolution.

 

[HMF]

Maybe that is a good definition... but, his posts have simply been the opposite end of the spectrum of '74. He says the group that always complains doesn't matter and '74 doesn't think walmart shoppers, pixie dust sniffers or whatever other derogatory name he comes up doesn't matter. Both have similar posting styles (not necessarily substance) with opposite messages. Personally, somewhere in the middle would be better. If '74 would tone down the hyperbole some and get the D&G group to focus on major issues instead of the shotgun approach currently used, maybe some improvements could be seen! Constructive criticism goes a lot further with most people than the overly critical.

That would be good if we were to drop D&G from our vocabulary.

 

[Lee]

Maybe that is a good definition... but, his posts have simply been the opposite end of the spectrum of '74. He says the group that always complains doesn't matter and '74 doesn't think walmart shoppers, pixie dust sniffers or whatever other derogatory name he comes up doesn't matter. Both have similar posting styles (not necessarily substance) with opposite messages.

Seriously?
You don't see the difference?

 

[Lee]

You are completely right! I feel the same way. AND people want to Ban you? wow...

Nobody gets banned for what they think.
People get banned for how they say what they think.

 

[ellie-badge]

This is beginning to get ridiculous. I returned from a hiatus on the forums to partake in the intelligent and interesting discussions I once saw, but now all I seem to be looking at is a bunch of bickering and childish name-calling. It's truly disappointing to read through. I guess my post from earlier was all for not.

 

[WDW1974]

Aim low, and you please only those with low expectations. Aim high and you not only amaze those with low expectations, but also please those with high expectations. Disney used to aim high in Orlando. They've decided its easier and cheaper to aim low. Not personally caring that some people only have low expectations is different than constantly trying to pick a fight by telling people they are full of it and they do not matter.

Exactly. ... I have never said people with lower standards are full of anything (well, maybe Pixie Dust) and I've never said anyone doesn't matter.

I have said over and over that people are entitled to believe whatever they choose, but that I don't have to respect it. Everyone has an opinion, but, no, all opinions aren't created equally. If so, you'd let a 20-year-old do brain surgery on you instead of a 57-year-old who has done it thousands of times before. I'll take the opinions of career Disney and UNI execs and Imagineers and even some consultants that I know over angry strangers trolling on Disney discussion boards. That doesn't make me smarter than everyone else. It just shows I have basic common sense.

People can love the new Casey Junior Children's Restroom Train as much as they please and even say they think it's as good as anything that Disney put in Carsland. They would be wrong, but they can say that. But that isn't the purpose of this post at all, getting rid of a troll would be.

 

[koryadams]

Nobody gets banned for what they think.
People get banned for how they say what they think.

Understandable, but in the beginning, he was nice and to the point. Then he got a little out of hand which wasn't right to do.

 

[Andre Di Stefano]

First of all, let me just start off by saying some of you people are speaking to one another as if this is a political debate. Don't get me wrong, I love the Disney Parks just as much as anyone else, but can we please grasp the concept that this is a forum to express our gripes, not ridicule and show complete disregard for anyone else's opinion. Honestly,people,even though is cliche,the fact is that life is short,instead of being pessimistic and argue about trivial matters, why don't we just enjoy the parks with our friends and family? After all, wasn't that Walt's dream in the first place?

 

[wannab@dis]

Aim low, and you please only those with low expectations. Aim high and you not only amaze those with low expectations, but also please those with high expectations. Disney used to aim high in Orlando. They've decided its easier and cheaper to aim low. Not personally caring that some people only have low expectations is different than constantly trying to pick a fight by telling people they are full of it and they do not matter.

I agree with your sentiment... but I really don't agree WDW is aiming low. Personally I think they are picking their battles in the most economic viable way, especially given the past decade. They were finally picking back up after 9/11 and then the economy went south again. Even during that time they launched two fairly large investments on both coasts along with a lot of refurbs.

Some think that's not enough, and that's fair. However, the nastiness portrayed by some with the attacks on executives, exaggeration of issues, focus on minutia, slamming of bloggers, etc has gone too far. And it overshadows any valid points they may have!

 

[WDW1974]

That would be good if we were to drop D&G from our vocabulary.

Yes. I am tired of that, but it won't go anywhere. I am a critic of WDW and themed entertainment because I am a consumer of it. The fact that Disney isn't living up to its own standards, history and PR is a corporate problem, it isn't a fan one.

Folks like Lee, Martin, 20K, myself etc ... are NOT doom and gloomers. We are realists and critics ... we aren't the kind of people who just decide 'I'm at my happy place and I'm going to be happy and ignore anything that's wrong' ... people are entitled to feel that way. I just can't imagine spending what it costs to go to WDW and not take note of (no one said it should ruin a trip) substandard parks/resorts/service/transport and be a bit angry at those who are running the resort in such a manner.

 

[wannab@dis]

People can love the new Casey Junior Children's Restroom Train as much as they please

Where was all the hate for the other water areas in the other parks? Since the one at Epcot was built in the 80s it gets a pass?

and even say they think it's as good as anything that Disney put in Carsland.

That's a strawman and I think you know it. I've seen absolutely nobody make that comparison.

 

[JustChillinBro]

I'd be pretty surprised if I got banned for this diatribe. Maybe a warning. We have posters calling people whores to their faces and that hasn't resulted in any serious muscle as far as I can tell. Obviously someone as prominent as WDW1974 is untouchable, whereas little ol' me would be more expendable. Can you imagine what would happen if Steve decided to ban WDW1974? Even for one day? Right. Tolerate it. And hell, it brings pageviews, which is all anyone really cares about.

I don't think Orlando is "aiming low" because there are certain attraction effects that go "unfixed." In the grand scheme of things, 99% works. It seems like the same old things get brought up time and time again. The yeti. Whatever isn't working on Splash. The descent on Spaceship Earth. But it really is a short list. A very short list in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think WDW overall is mediocre. For me, it is still amazing. It is something I'm proud to show off to people. And no, I don't mention that the bumblebees are supposed to spin. They have no idea. They are enjoying a timeless attraction. Everyone leaves with a smile. I don't think anyone would naturally notice missing tiles on it's a small world. No one is looking up there.

I am not sure what the other problems are. It would be nice if characters still populated Liberty Tree Tavern. It would be nice to see a wider, higher quality selection of food. But there are still some very good choices at each theme park. I would like to see additional attractions built. But if we can't agree that significant investment in the theme parks would result in increased ticket costs, I'm not sure we can have a rational discussion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree with your sentiment... but I really don't agree WDW is aiming low. Personally I think they are picking their battles in the most economic viable way, especially given the past decade. They were finally picking back up after 9/11 and then the economy went south again. Even during that time they launched two fairly large investments on both coasts along with a lot of refurbs.

Some think that's not enough, and that's fair. However, the nastiness portrayed by some with the attacks on executives, exaggeration of issues, focus on minutia, slamming of bloggers, etc has gone too far. And it overshadows any valid points they may have!

It is not just in new products, it is how the existing products are handled and maintained. Walt Disney World is not being stretched thin due to a lack of resources, but because of a desire to do so to make the balance sheets look better without the invest and work that is involved in themed entertainment.

 

[wannab@dis]

That would be good if we were to drop D&G from our vocabulary.

I'll be glad to... but, in turn all the walmart, pixie sniffers, etc should also be dropped.

 

[koryadams]

Exactly. ... I have never said people with lower standards are full of anything (well, maybe Pixie Dust) and I've never said anyone doesn't matter.

I have said over and over that people are entitled to believe whatever they choose, but that I don't have to respect it. Everyone has an opinion, but, no, all opinions aren't created equally. If so, you'd let a 20-year-old do brain surgery on you instead of a 57-year-old who has done it thousands of times before. I'll take the opinions of career Disney and UNI execs and Imagineers and even some consultants that I know over angry strangers trolling on Disney discussion boards. That doesn't make me smarter than everyone else. It just shows I have basic common sense.

People can love the new Casey Junior Children's Restroom Train as much as they please and even say they think it's as good as anything that Disney put in Carsland. They would be wrong, but they can say that. But that isn't the purpose of this post at all, getting rid of a troll would be.

ok...it's not as great as Carsland. but don't call it that. come on now. Just be happy that it's something rather than no expansion at all. And from pictures, it fits the storyline very well and it does more than just sits there, it entertains kids with water!

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's a strawman and I think you know it. I've seen absolutely nobody make that comparison.

Plenty of people are expecting Fantasyland to be something massive and their expectations for what its attractions are aiming to be are also exaggerated. There is no E-Ticket, but the hype is there.

 

[WDW1974]

First of all, let me just start off by saying some of you people are speaking to one another as if this is a political debate. Don't get me wrong, I love the Disney Parks just as much as anyone else, but can we please grasp the concept that this is a forum to express our gripes, not ridicule and show complete disregard for anyone else's opinion. Honestly,people,even though is cliche,the fact is that life is short,instead of being pessimistic and argue about trivial matters, why don't we just enjoy the parks with our friends and family? After all, wasn't that Walt's dream in the first place?

Welcome to MAGIC.

Now, some advice. It's never a good idea to enter someone's living room (in this case a virtual one) and attempt to tell the community how it should conduct itself. I don't care if you've been lurking for 43 years. It's just not a great way to post for the first time and get off on a good foot. And, yes, this is just like politics and religion ... it's just like a microcosm of our country. People are very polarized. And neither 'side' wants to give an inch. I'm willing to listen to any and all opinions that are respectful and don't get personal. But that doesn't mean I'm going to treat them equally because they aren't equal.

But you are right about enjoying the parks with family and friends. That is about the only reason I keep going back to Disney's O-Town parks right now.

Anyway, I just logged on after a great basketball game (except for all the Heat haters) and I think I'd prefer heading back to TV then going back and forth.

I hope you enjoy your MAGICal stay!

 

[Lee]

Not to throw the discussion off track, but is it really necessary to have soaking wet children running around theme parks?
I think not, and feel that such areas have no place in any Disney park.

But that's just me...