Trespassing third parties

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Like…. Inviting them to the opening of a new resort? Giving them a cruise? Allowing them to operate for 10+ years and never saying anything?
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Do you really think a marketing department would be involved in actual operations of a facility? Do you really not understand the difference between a small business with a single or two owners who have supreme and absolute decision making authority versus a corporation with no single majority owner and a site with 70,000+ employees with different levels of decision making authority?
 
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DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
You keep trying to parse this out in different ways and trying to add details as some sort of twist. The owner of a facility can provide permission in non-written ways. Nobody else has claimed that written permission is the only type of permission. You’re the only one making that point and it’s a straw man you’re using to push a false equivalency. Having non-written permission is not the same as having no permission.
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Maybe just ask for clarification before you start assuming things about my intentions or “straw men”?

For the purposes of this example, assume no permission was ever given to / for / by anyone. Party planner just showed up from day 1 and decorated away. Do you have any other questions about this proposed hypothetical?
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
Maybe just ask for clarification before you start assuming things about my intentions or “straw men”?

For the purposes of this example, assume no permission was ever given to / for / by anyone. Party planner just showed up from day 1 and decorated away. Do you have any other questions about this proposed hypothetical?
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I’m not assuming anything. You’re adding in points and distinctions that haven’t been made by others, those are the straw men. I’ve already acknowledged before that even socially it’s not acceptable to just use other peoples things. Written permission is not the only type of permission even if it is a best practice for a business, especially something critical to your business. Verbal permission can be granted. It’s inconsiderate, but sure, permission by omission is also possible. Of course, the true key to receiving permission is getting it from the appropriate authority. Someone just letting you do something is meaningless if they’re not the one vested with authority.

But the true icing on the cake is that your entire argument is that it is socially acceptable to assume things of others. Someone just sending their party planner to a venue to decorate without prior permission is assuming that it’s allowed.
 
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DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
I’m not assuming anything. You’re adding in points and distinctions that haven’t been made by others, those are the straw men. I’ve already acknowledged before that even socially it’s not acceptable to just use other peoples things. Written permission is not the only type of permission even if it is a best practice for a business, especially something critical to your business. Verbal permission can be granted. It’s inconsiderate, but sure, permission by omission is also possible. Of course, the true key to receiving permission is getting it from the appropriate authority. Someone just letting you do something is meaningless if they’re not the one vested with authority.

But the true icing on the cake is that your entire argument is that it is socially acceptable to assume things of others. Someone just sending their party planner to a venue to decorate without prior permission is assuming that it’s allowed.
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Well, I can see that we have different opinions here. I’m going to stop replying now because I feel we’ve both stated our opinions clearly and stating them over and over again just isn’t productive. Thanks for the chat, have a good night.
 
phillip9698

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I stand by what I said in the party planner example. In that case, I would just assume.

What is the 10 extra people supposed to be an analogy for? If it’s for illegally using LL, I said in an earlier post that I don’t think that’s ok, if it was indeed going on. As I also said earlier, I’d just need clarification on a lot of things before drawing conclusions about this situation.
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My wife is a party planner, for everything from kids parties to bachelorette parties.

Nobody cares if you hire someone to decorate spaces you rented, especially for kids parties. The only thing the venue cares about is if they sell food or provide catering services they usually will not allow you to bring in outside food other than a cake. Even then she always asks the venue what time she can arrive to decorate and what is and isn’t allowed, usually its clarification on what adhesives can be used on a wall if any. We have run into issues where a venue allowed us to place command hooks on the walls for years but then they decided they wouldn’t, so you know what we did………..we used our own backdrop stands. We didn’t make a fuss about social norms, previous activities, and what ifs.

The food example is what’s apt here. Sure you rented the space but if you brought in your own food that undercuts a service the venue provides, hence they usually won’t allow it.

Essentially whatever the venue can provide whether that’s food, photography, alcohol, etc…..they will frown upon you providing yourself.
 
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DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
phillip9698 said:
My wife is a party planner, for everything from kids parties to bachelorette parties.

Nobody cares if you hire someone to decorate spaces you rented, especially for kids parties. The only thing the venue cares about is if they sell food or provide catering services they usually will not allow you to bring in outside food other than a cake. Even then she always asks the venue what time she can arrive to decorate and what is and isn’t allowed, usually its clarification on what adhesives can be used on a wall if any. We have run into issues where a venue allowed us to place command hooks on the walls for years but then they decided they wouldn’t, so you know what we did………..we used our own backdrop stands. We didn’t make a fuss about social norms, previous activities, and what ifs.

The food example is what’s apt here. Sure you rented the space but if you brought in your own food that undercuts a service the venue provides, hence they usually won’t allow it.

Essentially whatever the venue can provide whether that’s food, photography, alcohol, etc…..they will frown upon you providing yourself.
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Thank you for the response, but I’m going to exit this thread.
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
lentesta said:
We've been counting the number of guests entering both the standby line and the Lightning Lane, per hour, at key attractions.

We've seen instances where the number of guests entering the LL is:
  • Equal to or greater than the number entering the standby line
  • More than half of the attraction's hourly capacity
For example, at Haunted Mansion we counted roughly 1,750 guests entering the LL line in one hour, and slightly less than that entering the standby line. None of them - zero - appeared to be VIP tours.

We also think that the number of G+ reservations sold by Disney for HM is not more than 300 per hour.

So there's ~1,450 guests that are somehow using the LL line. None of them were VIP tours.

Some of them could reasonably be rider swap. But HM isn't a roller coaster and there's no height limit, so I'd expect that rider swap number to be super low.
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You guys are brilliant and I love what you do, so pardon the delayed response, but if this is the case, what percentage of guests each day have DAS?

I feel like I’m missing something key, because I trust you, but I also just don’t see how this is possible. What am I overlooking?

My perspective is that of someone who has traveled extensively with a guest who needs a wheelchair (could not walk a step without it) but has never received or formally applied for a DAS because cast members told us we weren’t eligible.
 
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MagicRat

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
It’s the corporations place, they can do what they want with it, pure and simple. It doesn’t matter that they overlooked it for awhile or not.

Honestly, I am a bit surprised at how accommodating they have been to the lift/uber services (but since they have a cooperation with lift I guess I shouldn’t).

I hope they continue to push third parties out of their bubble as someone who is paying for the Disney experience, I do not need to have my vacation interfered with by a third party leech and before someone says how is my time hampered, I already referenced the third party gentleman taking all of the chairs to have a TED talk at a deluxe outside dining area for his paying lemmings.

Go away and make money another way!
 
MagicRat

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
Why?
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Because they too get in the way. Have you seen the gas station next to the Boardwalk? They take literally every possible legal space and illegal space in the lot just to be close to the parks during closing hours and there are signs up trying to stop it too. Have you ever heard the saying, “A few bad apples…..”?
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
MagicRat said:
Because they too get in the way. Have you seen the gas station next to the Boardwalk? They take literally every possible legal space and illegal space in the lot just to be close to the parks during closing hours and there are signs up trying to stop it too. Have you ever heard the saying, “A few bad apples…..”?
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That’s unfortunate. I have used Uber and Lyft many times at WDW and would be very disappointed if a minority of bad drivers caused a change in Disney’s policy.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Uber and Lyft also take money away from a Disney service (Minnie Van) and from an approved Disney service (Mears).

If permission is the key, only Mears and Minnie Vans have permission.
 
MagicRat

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Uber and Lyft also take money away from a Disney service (Minnie Van) and from an approved Disney service (Mears).

If permission is the key, only Mears and Minnie Vans have permission.
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Yeah but Lyft and Disney are together on the Minivans, they are on the Lyft app. You can get a ride from Boardwalk to Wilderness Lodge for a $42 price. Lyft black is $23. I use to make it my mission to support Taxis as they truly made that their profession but the will of society has made it nearly impossible. It’s all relative, just like these third party people suckling a profit off of Disney.
 
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Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Uber and Lyft also take money away from a Disney service (Minnie Van) and from an approved Disney service (Mears).

If permission is the key, only Mears and Minnie Vans have permission.
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They want people driving guests onto and around the property. They don't want people giving tours anymore for reasons they are highly unlikely to reveal. Permission isn't the key; the only key is that it's Disney's property to do with as they see fit. They can be as inconsistent as they like.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
They want people driving guests onto and around the property. They don't want people giving tours anymore for reasons they are highly unlikely to reveal. Permission isn't the key; the only key is that it's Disney's property to do with as they see fit. They can be as inconsistent as they like.
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I never said any different, I was replying to someone who asked why Disney might have a problem with Uber and Lyft.
 

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