Trespassing third parties

[lazyboy97o]

Not sure the Treehouse is.

Obviously all new queues have to be, but to what extent do they have to retrofit queues to be ADA compliant?

Florida actually started enacting accessibility legislation in the mid-70s. The Florida Accessibility Code for Building Construction was already established by the time the Americans with Disabilities Act become law. Florida’s code was one of a few existing standards used by the Department of Justice to develop the federal ADA Design Standards.

There are a number of factors that go into determining whether or not facilities have to be modified to meet current codes and standards. Generally, if left alone spaces can remain as is but only the oldest pets of Walt Disney World predate some level of accessibility requirements.

The switch to DAS and mobility issues no longer qualifying for accommodation came about as the result of Disney going through and ensuring that queues were accessible. Most queues designed to utilize an alternative entrance were modified to make the stand by queue accessible.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

By any chance are you or someone you know involved in giving such tours? If not, I truly don't understand why you seem so upset by this and keep looking for ways to bend logic to make this Disney's fault.

By any chance do you work for WDW Security or OC Sheriff? If not, I truly don’t understand why you seem so upset by this.

And no…. Unless a friend buying me a dole whip counts for blabbing on about the history of Steam trains haha.

 

[lewisc]

That’s why I continue to say this is tricky. It’s not because I lack intelligence or comprehension skills, it’s because it is, in fact, tricky and we don’t have all the facts.

One private guide has been doing this since 1996. A, somewhat weak, argument is Disney waived its right to object.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If not, I truly don’t understand why you seem so upset by this.

This is why people keep saying things that you say insults your intelligence. Asking before you use somebody else’s stuff is such a basic, core concept in our society that it is taught in preschools. There’s no way to elevate the issue beyond that with what you keep saying. That’s what you keep claiming to not understand which is hard to believe because it seems doubtful that you have no problem with people helping themselves to your things.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

One private guide has been doing this since 1996. A, somewhat weak, argument is Disney waived its right to object.

So long as they are not discriminating based upon a protected class, Disney could turn around and trespass anyone they want tomorrow, for any reason. They don't need to base it on the tour guiding. I agree that waiver of the right to object is therefore really weak in this context.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

This is why people keep saying things that you say insults your intelligence. Asking before you use somebody else’s stuff is such a basic, core concept in our society that it is taught in preschools. There’s no way to elevate the issue beyond that with what you keep saying. That’s what you keep claiming to not understand which is hard to believe because it seems doubtful that you have no problem with people helping themselves to your things.

You did see that I was just quoting the other poster and turning it around on them? It was a joke. Lol.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So long as they are not discriminating based upon a protected class,

I don’t think it’s just protected class, I don’t think Disney can say “sorry we don’t allow blondes natural or otherwise”

 

[phillip9698]

That’s why I continue to say this is tricky. It’s not because I lack intelligence or comprehension skills, it’s because it is, in fact, tricky and we don’t have all the facts.

There is absolutely nothing "tricky" about this situation. They had no agreement to operate a business on Disney property, therefore at any moment Disney has the right to end practice of said business on their property. The fact that they chose to end the practice now instead of last week has no bearing on Disney's right to refuse entry to people who are unlawfully operating a business on their property.

End of story.

 

[Isamar]

That’s why I continue to say this is tricky. It’s not because I lack intelligence or comprehension skills, it’s because it is, in fact, tricky and we don’t have all the facts.

I get it . I think sometimes we have people ‘disagreeing’ here because we’re really discussing different things:

- whether Disney is entitled to trespass them
vs.
- whether you agree or disagree with their decision to trespass them (and/or how they did it)

I think(?) everyone here is in general agreement that Disney was entitled to trespass them.

But I agree that there are many factors (many of which we’ll never know) that might legitimately affect how someone feels about Disney’s decision to do so and how they went about it.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm sure Disney was within its rights. One guide has been doing this for 12 years, another since 1996.

So he says - would love to see the actual business details going back that far and not just "I've been helping people with Disney knowledge since 1996..."

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don’t think it’s just protected class, I don’t think Disney can say “sorry we don’t allow blondes natural or otherwise”

Yes, it really is just that.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Listen Disney can easily enforce the need for DAS by implementing stricter policies. I would fully embrace that but then you will get everyone saying how dare Disney do such a thing. Here is my take. If you have a need/disability disclose it. When i do my video interview and even before in city hall. I simply tell them what my condition is. I truly dont care about privacy etc and any “laws” as to why they cant ask. So im fully transparent to my needs and concerns.

Whenever I’ve tried to disclose, Disney has actively refused to listen/see. The disability itself doesn’t matter to them, and it shouldn’t. They want to know how your disability impacts park touring, not that you are/are not disabled.

I'm sure Disney was within its rights. One guide has been doing this for 12 years, another since 1996. They were known to CM. They didn't collect money on Disney property. AFAIK Disney didn't say anything. They thought Disney was sort of OK

It was mean spirited waiting until they arrived with customers to serve them.

I can basically agree with Disney but think the situation could have been handled nicer.

A lot has changed since 1996. It would be foolish to witness all those changes and think that a blind eye years ago amounted to permission in todays parks.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Interesting data from this lawsuit (A.L. v. Walt Disney Parks & Resorts US, Inc.):

3% of guests in the park had Guest Assistance Cards, which were last used in 2013.

They used 30% of a popular ride's capacity.

It *doubled* the wait for non-GAC guests at popular attractions.

So let's do the math:

• DHS averaged 28,250 people per day in 2013 according to AECOM in 2014.
• 3% of 28,250 is 848 people in the park throughout the course of a day.
• Let's say "popular ride" was pre-third track Toy Story Mania, which had a capacity of around 1,000 per hour.
• And let's say the park was open for 12 hours a day.
• So TSMM could serve 12,000 guests per day. 30% of that capacity was going to GACs, or 3,600 rides.

So everyone with GACs was either riding TSMM 4x, or each person with a GAC rode with a group of 4. (Disney isn't clear on whether the 3% is the entire group or just the one person in the group who qualified.)

Either way, allocating 30% of a ride's capacity to either 4% or 12% of park guests, is upsetting to the remaining guests.



View attachment 753278

and

View attachment 753280

I think it’s logical to assume that the 30% is the card holder plus their party. I’m not sure how many people were allowed back then, but now it’s like,… five? So for every guest holding DAS, that’s potentially 6 people in the LL for each time they ride.

 

[DisneyNorthFan]

It's great that Disney offers a DAS program. It's unfortunate folks abuse the system - third party actors and guests on their own. It hurts those that need it. I do think DAS could use a revamp to help curtail abuse, though. I'm fortunate not to need the system, so am open to feedback from those that do, but it seems "fair" that you wouldn't be able to participate in another attraction while you are in the virtual queue offered by DAS. You could enjoy quiet time outside of the queue, but wouldn't be able to double-up on attractions. I suspect this would remove the primary (albeit not only) incentive for those that abuse the DAS system, while still providing the service needed by those that need it. Just a thought.

 

[Splash4eva]

Whenever I’ve tried to disclose, Disney has actively refused to listen/see. The disability itself doesn’t matter to them, and it shouldn’t. They want to know how your disability impacts park touring, not that you are/are not disabled.



A lot has changed since 1996. It would be foolish to witness all those changes and think that a blind eye years ago amounted to permission in todays parks.

They dont want to know i agree but ive found it very easy to simply say here are my conditions and thats why i am asking for DAS… the video interviews have lasted less than minutes as have any time we went to city hall before that.

 

[DisneyCane]

But they aren't monetizing their streams in that they don't charge for them. Sure, there are donations, but there is no monetary barrier to viewing their streams.

They monetize the ad revenue.

 

[CAV]

I don’t think it’s just protected class, I don’t think Disney can say “sorry we don’t allow blondes natural or otherwise”

You think incorrectly.

 

[lewisc]

So he says - would love to see the actual business details going back that far and not just "I've been helping people with Disney knowledge since 1996..."

Tour Group Mike (Hewell) was running private tours in the 90s. I don't know details about the claims of guides quoted in the linked article.

 

[co10064]

It's great that Disney offers a DAS program. It's unfortunate folks abuse the system - third party actors and guests on their own. It hurts those that need it. I do think DAS could use a revamp to help curtail abuse, though. I'm fortunate not to need the system, so am open to feedback from those that do, but it seems "fair" that you wouldn't be able to participate in another attraction while you are in the virtual queue offered by DAS. You could enjoy quiet time outside of the queue, but wouldn't be able to double-up on attractions. I suspect this would remove the primary (albeit not only) incentive for those that abuse the DAS system, while still providing the service needed by those that need it. Just a thought.

That would certainly be the ideal scenario, but realistically there is no way to enforce it. Disney would have to start monitoring who is entering standby queues and that would be a nightmare from a staffing/labor perspective and a lack of space/infrastructure.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

That would certainly be the ideal scenario, but realistically there is no way to enforce it. Disney would have to start monitoring who is entering standby queues and that would be a nightmare from a staffing/labor perspective and a lack of space/infrastructure.
Yeah, I agree, although if DAS abuse continues to get worse (gets to a level similar to what caused them to have to change the system in the first place a decade ago), then they’re going to have to do something or everyone else’s guest experience will continue to degrade. Whether that something is tappoints at every queue to prevent double-dipping, or stricter requirements a la Universal, I don’t know.