Transformative Multi-Year Expansion Announced for WDS Paris

[Loose Pebble]

One of the issues is that Disney doesn't view having the parks as global draws to be important. (Having people visit all the parks isn't a priority to them). So they don't see the need to have DLP be super differentiated, and thus they're okay with Studios being a mish mash of little random things for marketing purposes. I also think that they don't see Efteling and Europa Park as competition, so they don't feel the need to improve the resort overall (hence why you have nothing new at the castle park in 20 years). Hopefully Universal in the UK does well and that can lead to longer term investment in DLP (years too late but better than nothing).

 

[marni1971]

Hopefully Universal in the UK does well

If it happens and is sufficient to be a threat. DLP is in danger of becoming as complacent as Orlando

 

[cjkeating]

Almost everything on that list being half-baked imo.

In the US $1bn buys a Galaxy's Edge. And that was before COVID and the inflation spike and construction is generally more expensive in France. So whilst they are going for quantity over quality if they had spent the money in the same way as the US it would have added far less capacity and resort acreage to the resort.

 

[IMDREW]

In the US $1bn buys a Galaxy's Edge. And that was before COVID and the inflation spike and construction is generally more expensive in France. So whilst they are going for quantity over quality if they had spent the money in the same way as the US it would have added far less capacity and resort acreage to the resort.

Really not talking about the quantity of the stuff they’ve build or are building. But man, a lot of things they’re doing could’ve been much better without a single extra cent. Many decisions don’t make creative sense at all. Very frustrating.

 

[nickys]

Really not talking about the quantity of the stuff they’ve build or are building. But man, a lot of things they’re doing could’ve been much better without a single extra cent. Many decisions don’t make creative sense at all. Very frustrating.

Can you elaborate please? Even with just one as an example.

Like I was totally underwhelmed by Avengers, but then I’m not a Marvel / superhero fan so probably not surprising. But I am interested in what others think would have improved it. And I’m assuming you aren’t simply meaning put in a different ride to Webslingers. But feel free to pick any auto elaborate on.

 

[IMDREW]

Can you elaborate please? Even with just one as an example.

Like I was totally underwhelmed by Avengers, but then I’m not a Marvel / superhero fan so probably not surprising. But I am interested in what others think would have improved it. And I’m assuming you aren’t simply meaning put in a different ride to Webslingers. But feel free to pick any auto elaborate on.

Yes ofc! All comments are my own opinion of course.

For one, Cars Road Trip is just a disaster of a ride. And if it really cost that 40m, somethings shady and that thing was not worth it. Theres almost nothing to see and whats there to see is dirt cheap (besides the canyon, which was already there). And don’t forget that the trams were also already there. AND the cars were also already in the park! Where did the money go?

They re-recorded the score for avengers campus, which doesn’t sound that much different at all to whats playing in DCA. Thats wasted imo.

I think they shouldve stayed true to the theme of the park OR introduce a new theme and blend it in. But just inserting an art nouveau street and lake in a park that has nothing to do with it feels wrong. They couldv’e made the whole place make sense theme-wise, but chose to just ignore that and plop it all down wherever. It all costs buckets, but a completely different look (which fits the theme) doesnt have to cost more. But they decided to go with no coherent theme.

Alice show money couldve gone to better theming elsewhere. I mean, what the heck is that show?! Would’ve rather have fountains in those new planters than that show.

Just design-wise, Avengers Campus is ugly, a better designer could’ve come up with an aesthetically better look with the same budget.

The sad part is the choices theyve made in the whole history of the park are hard to undo. Like a tower of terror smack in the middle of the park. Thats just a bad, short-sighted decision. Thats not a ride designed to be park facing on all sides.

I love the Pixar show, but thats not the right place for it, and if there was no other place to put it, it shouldve been a different show. Worlds of Pixar is on the other side of the park. And don’t get me started on the new branding and naming of the park and lands.

These are just a few examples that frustrate me. Just a different name for the park than stupid Disney Adventure World doesnt cost anything more!

Okay rant over, hope not to offend anyone, and I am excited to have new rides en areas to visit. But man, I wish it wouldve turned out better. The park next to it is such genius design that this stands out even more.

 

[nickys]

I don’t have a problem with the lake and various lands around it. Some have likened it to Epcot with pavilions surrounding it but of different IPs rather than countries. But I wish they were proper lands like Galaxy’s Edge than just a WS pavilion. I’d rather have 3 lands with 2-3 rides or proper attractions and a TS, than 5 mini lands with one ride each.

But I’m reeling that the Cars Road Trip cost €40m. I thought it was just a cheap temporary overlay as they closed the backlot tour. But to be honest at that point I wasn’t following DLP much, I was just happy they kept Catastrophe Canyon.

It’s only really since we took our first visit in almost 30 years last October that I started frequenting this part of the forum. I was genuinely surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I agree 100% that WDS needs improving though. Some of the problem probably lies in the original theme design they used, of warehouse / soundstage type buildings. But the Remy courtyard shows what could be done if they really thought about it.

 

[marni1971]

In the US $1bn buys a Galaxy's Edge

In Mouse money. It’s long been concerning that WDI overcharges.

 

[SplashJacket]

In Mouse money. It’s long been concerning that WDI overcharges.

As in, actually construction costs $500 million, but imagineering bills $500 million in development?

 

[marni1971]

As in, actually construction costs $500 million, but imagineering bills $500 million in development?

In a very large nutshell.

 

[Loose Pebble]

Are imagineering bills included in the 60 billion?

 

[BrianLo]

Whilst true, the whole 2 billion euro expansion funded:

• Avengers Campus
• Cars Road Trip
• World Premiere & World Premiere Plaza
• Pixar: Better Together
• World of Frozen
• Lion King
• Adventure Way & Bay
• New Nighttime Show
• Alice Stunt Show?

Is it actually better than the rather maligned Epcot makeover? And at least Epcot had the bones of being, at one time, a world class park.

Ironically the Epcot makeover was more or less announced in 2017 (and is actually done)… this makeover was announced in 2018 and optimistically will wrap in 2028.

I know I’m sounding rather harsh, but we’ve seen a bunch of park fixes and this one is certainly not the strongest, for what clearly was the worst park. Not to mention this is coming at the expense of Disneyland Paris, which is woefully behind the investment cycle Disneyland proper has seen. I think the park (WDSP/DAW) will be ‘massively’ improved and no longer an embarrassment to the brand. So there’s that.

 

[cjkeating]

Just a few comment, like you said in your own post not meaning to offend just sharing some thoughts to expand on your points.

Where did the money go?

Pixar and trees.

They re-recorded the score for avengers campus, which doesn’t sound that much different at all to whats playing in DCA. Thats wasted imo.

I haven't been to DCA AC but I was under the impression they have a generic 5 minute loop or something to that extent so WDSP recorded a full loop.

Alice show money couldve gone to better theming elsewhere. I mean, what the heck is that show?! Would’ve rather have fountains in those new planters than that show.

It's capacity. Both to tide the park over as an extra thing to do and then as something to do instead of waiting for Frozen.

Just design-wise, Avengers Campus is ugly, a better designer could’ve come up with an aesthetically better look with the same budget.

I think AC has its pros and cons versus what was built at DCA but I don't think we can a significantly inferior design?

I love the Pixar show, but thats not the right place for it, and if there was no other place to put it, it shouldve been a different show. Worlds of Pixar is on the other side of the park. And don’t get me started on the new branding and naming of the park and lands.

I think we all just have to suck this one up. Like Lion King in Frontierland. Worlds of Pixar is just a fast and dirty rename of Toon Studio, it means nothing. Studios 2 and 3 exists in their own front of the park bubble.

Okay rant over, hope not to offend anyone, and I am excited to have new rides en areas to visit. But man, I wish it wouldve turned out better. The park next to it is such genius design that this stands out even more.

WDSP is an unfixable mess without spending 10bn never mind 2bn but that is just never going to happen and unfortunately things cost too much or sacrifices have to be made or more weird choices have to be made to make the most of a bad situation.

Personally I'd rather they did what they can to make WDSP an adequate park, move on to some targeted and logical expansion in DLP and then focus on making a solid 3rd gate if that is where they think they can create a truly great and profitable 'second' park.

 

[SplashJacket]

In a very large nutshell.

I have wondered, what do Imagineering R&D budgets get assigned to? For misc. projects like holotiles, what are they doing?

Because for a specific project like TBA, they just bill out their hours to the project, but for the misc. stuff, does imagineering have a baseline budget?

If it’s low, they’d have a need to bill out as much as humanly possible

 

[Jordan dby]

i read in forbes or ft recently that the French government accusations that DLP is undercharging US parks for work (so that DLP makes less profit and pays less of the high french taxes) still hasnt been fully resolved, and Disney may have to settle in some places. turmoil in french politics will not have helped. macron is an enabler but his position is doomed. i am certain that is the main reason for the delays.

having said that, i also agree with the post that basically summarises DLP as an afterthought, a park for Europeans who cant afford to go to USA. i don't have evidence but i can understand the thinking behind that if that's what they do, and i think I'd do the same if i was them. and i love DLP, give me 3 weekends, spread out over the year, with the space and beauty of Paris over the concrete and crowds of Orlando any day. last Feb in school holidays we were straight onto Indy and then watched fireworks on a brunch in adventure land, pitch black and felt like we were there only ones there (probably were, as the only ride operating in that area was Indy and we were there only ones on that too), but adventure land is so beautiful at night it's worth going for that alone.

as for cost, studio tour was a failure because its a pale immitation of the old Universal ride, and Disney is supposed to be a leading company, not a cheap immitation. and yeah they should have binned it rather than spent £40m on changing it to something worse.

also agree Marvel area could be better, seeing how immersive GE is in CA theres no reason Marvel couldn't be the same, it would benefit from more high tech stuff moving around, but WEBs is good, and with lion king, frozen, Rapunzel and another on the promenade i make that 5 new rides in that initial budget, plus. that's a big step forward.

oh and the Pixar show is incredible, imo, my favourite in any disney park ever, although for ingenuity rather than budget.

 

[Jordan dby]

I have wondered, what do Imagineering R&D budgets get assigned to? For misc. projects like holotiles, what are they doing?

Because for a specific project like TBA, they just bill out their hours to the project, but for the misc. stuff, does imagineering have a baseline budget?

If it’s low, they’d have a need to bill out as much as humanly possible

I'd like to know if they paid anyone external for the idea to rename it all Adventure something

 

[marni1971]

I have wondered, what do Imagineering R&D budgets get assigned to? For misc. projects like holotiles, what are they doing?

Because for a specific project like TBA, they just bill out their hours to the project, but for the misc. stuff, does imagineering have a baseline budget?

If it’s low, they’d have a need to bill out as much as humanly possible

Pass. I’ve never asked. I do know there was going to be a concerted effort to reign in costs. Then Chapek happened and it’s been turmoil since.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Avatar going in DCA is such an Iger decision as he’s in love with the franchise.

He's got five billions reasons to love it.

 

[IMDREW]

I do want to add that I’m very excited for the lake and nighttime spectacular, love the pixar show, cant wait for Lion King, actually do like Frozen Ever After and think the restaurant will be very nice.

Aaaand, maybe if I was in charge, I’d also say, skip this whole thing. Lets build a beautiful lake with beautiful lands around it, fix up the front as much as we can rn and then hope to later get an opportunity to bring the front more in line with the new back. Instead of being bound by whats there now.

 

[TheDisneyParksfanC8]

I think there were rumors that eventually the cars tour would go away and that would be used for Avatar, But with the concept art now showing a large space between LK and Frozen, Maybe avatar goes there and another land or large single E ticket goes where Cars is now?