Training transition from 13 miles to 26 miles, I have questions.... Help please.

[frank2271]

Hi everyone,

Can anyone tell me how difficult it will be to transition to a full marathon distance from training for the half? It wasn't too bad going from my training for the 13K last year to the half, I'm hoping that my transition to training for a full marathon will go as smoothly.

Also, I hear so much about "hitting the wall", I haven't had this happen to me yet and I'm kinda nervous about it. Can anyone share their experiences with "the wall" and how to deal with it?

Thanks for all your help,

Frank

 

[joel_maxwell]

Im doing the same thing. I have done 3 halves this year and Im going for a full in February. I am super nervous looking at the training volume. I think I can do it and that is the attitude Im taking, but it is making me nervous.

Ill let you know how it goes February 14th, the day after the Full.

I have never hit the wall. I have read so much about it and I know people that have hit it. From what I have read and what people tell me... just keep moving as much as you can. You will feel like you are not moving 1 inch and your body is trying to quit. Best quote I have ever heard that could relate, "If you are going through hell, keep going!"

 

[mraphael]

I'm currently training for the WDW Full, and I haven't hit a wall yet....But, I'm only at 14 miles in my LONG runs. I've done two halves this year and so far, so good.

I would think as long as you are slowly increasing your long runs and doing taper weeks, you shouldn't hit the wall. And keeping your long runs a bit slower than your normal race pace should help also...

 

[Midnight Garden]

I've never hit the 'wall' and I've just learned that upper milage is total mental games - at least it was for me. The training area I used for the last full marathon was a 2 mile loop and was marked. Some long runs I was testing out different types of fuel to see what I liked so I'd tell myself that I needed to hit this mile to try this. Well, at that mile I'm on the back of the loop and have to run another mile to reach my car so.... and then when I hit the front mile of the loop... well, it's only two more laps and that sounds better than four more miles so...

I just played games like that with myself when the number of miles I had to run that day overwhelmed me. I stuck to a training schedule and didn't push myself to run any more than what I was scheduled to do. I did a 20 miler and then tapered. On the 20 mile run I counted the miles down backwards and it worked for me. I did all 20 without a problem and then went to the running store to try on clothes b/c by then I was getting a clue that it was going to be extremely cold for the 2010 Disney marathon. All of the girls in the store, who were helping me, were like "You just did 20 miles and not in an ice bath? "

So, if you stick to a proper training schedule and learn how to fuel properly, I think you'll be fine. You're building slow enough for your body to adapt. Just treat your body right. And one thing I had to learn: It's ok to skip a run now and then if you think you need to. Just listen to your body.

 

[Phonedave]

I'm currently training for the WDW Full, and I haven't hit a wall yet....But, I'm only at 14 miles in my LONG runs. I've done two halves this year and so far, so good.

I would think as long as you are slowly increasing your long runs and doing taper weeks, you shouldn't hit the wall. And keeping your long runs a bit slower than your normal race pace should help also...

It's not a matter of training. It's a matter of the body's ability to store energy in the form of glycogen. A human can only hold enough glycogen to go about 20 miles. That is something you cannot change.

When you run out of glycogen, you become hypoglycemic. There are mental responses that will then attempt to cause you to stop running. It's a safety mechanism.

So there are two things you can do. Avoid the wall by stretching out your glycogen stores. Pace management and nutrition and the keys to that. The mental part is a bit harder. That is where mentally preparing comes into play.

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

I've never hit the 'wall' and I've just learned that upper milage is total mental games - at least it was for me. The training area I used for the last full marathon was a 2 mile loop and was marked. Some long runs I was testing out different types of fuel to see what I liked so I'd tell myself that I needed to hit this mile to try this. Well, at that mile I'm on the back of the loop and have to run another mile to reach my car so.... and then when I hit the front mile of the loop... well, it's only two more laps and that sounds better than four more miles so...

I just played games like that with myself when the number of miles I had to run that day overwhelmed me. I stuck to a training schedule and didn't push myself to run any more than what I was scheduled to do. I did a 20 miler and then tapered. On the 20 mile run I counted the miles down backwards and it worked for me. I did all 20 without a problem and then went to the running store to try on clothes b/c by then I was getting a clue that it was going to be extremely cold for the 2010 Disney marathon. All of the girls in the store, who were helping me, were like "You just did 20 miles and not in an ice bath? "

So, if you stick to a proper training schedule and learn how to fuel properly, I think you'll be fine. You're building slow enough for your body to adapt. Just treat your body right. And one thing I had to learn: It's ok to skip a run now and then if you think you need to. Just listen to your body.

That is something that works for me as well. I don't know why, but if I set my watch to count down from my goal, instead of counting up, it makes it seem a lot easier. I think it is because towards the end I am not looking at my watch going "wow, I ran that far, no wonder I am tired" instead it's more like "Oh, only 2 more miles to go, thats easy"

-dave

 

[joel_maxwell]

That is something that works for me as well. I don't know why, but if I set my watch to count down from my goal, instead of counting up, it makes it seem a lot easier. I think it is because towards the end I am not looking at my watch going "wow, I ran that far, no wonder I am tired" instead it's more like "Oh, only 2 more miles to go, thats easy"

-dave

I think that is why running here locally on the basic same routes sometimes is so refreshing. To me, thinking of my 14 mile route here that goes all over town, up big hills, long straight-aways etc compared to the unfamiliar 13.1 at WDW I did, obviously, the local route is a breeze.

That is why Im going to attempt the Full in my backyard with the local race. Mentally, I knwo exactly where and how much I have to run and that is comforting as apposed to, "where in the world is that mile marker"

 

[Donald Duck]

It's not a matter of training. It's a matter of the body's ability to store energy in the form of glycogen. A human can only hold enough glycogen to go about 20 miles. That is something you cannot change.

When you run out of glycogen, you become hypoglycemic. There are mental responses that will then attempt to cause you to stop running. It's a safety mechanism.

So there are two things you can do. Avoid the wall by stretching out your glycogen stores. Pace management and nutrition and the keys to that. The mental part is a bit harder. That is where mentally preparing comes into play.

-dave

What Dave said, pacing and nutrition will physically get you through it, but the mental part is another thing. On long training runs (15-22 miles) I can't tell you what I do to mentally get through it, but I focus on something, whatever it is for that particualr run / day / mood...it's up to the individual I suppose.

If you feel like dropping to the ground the very next step you take and your body is burning and shutting down...you're about half-way there...

Happy running!

 

[joel_maxwell]

What Dave said, pacing and nutrition will physically get you through it, but the mental part is another thing. On long training runs (15-22 miles) I can't tell you what I do to mentally get through it, but I focus on something, whatever it is for that particualr run / day / mood...it's up to the individual I suppose.

If you feel like dropping to the ground the very next step you take and your body is burning and shutting down...you're about half-way there...

Happy running!

Nice... giving me something to look forward too. :lol:

 

[Donald Duck]

Nice... giving me something to look forward too. :lol:

Darn right! I always tell myself, "You can collapse later, but right now run!"

 

[frank2271]

Thanks for all this great information, I am really interested in others experiences with hitting the wall. How did it feel and what, specifically, did you do to help with the mental challenges?

 

[joel_maxwell]

I picked my schedule today. Nothing like waiting till the last minute huh. It starts tomorrow. I think Im going to do the Hal Higdon Novice version. I would love to do the Intermediate, but it just requires a little more mileage than I think would be smart to take on with my life and requirements right now.

I would have gone the Jeff Galloway schedule, but I think it worked best in the hot summer months with 2 basic medium runs of 45 minutes during the week, 1 short one and a long run. With the cold coming in, I can take on more.

Bring it on Hal.

 

[MKCP 1985]

Thanks for all this great information, I am really interested in others experiences with hitting the wall. How did it feel and what, specifically, did you do to help with the mental challenges?

I ate everything Disney stuck in front of me - gels, candy, shot blocks . . . anything and everything . . . and I stopped for photos with characters - anything to give me a little break.

I'm going to train a little harder this fall (by completing the Wine & Dine half, I am already ahead of mileage for this point in the fall) and hope that the physical will be stronger and that by having done a full marathon, the mental aspect will also be stronger. :wave:

 

[Donald Duck]

Thanks for all this great information, I am really interested in others experiences with hitting the wall. How did it feel and what, specifically, did you do to help with the mental challenges?[/QUOTE]

I really think it is up to the individual and what they are specifically going through...
"I physically can't do this"
"its too hard"
"I'm not good enough to complete this..."

Personally, I focus on all of the negative crap that has happened to me over the years. I think about crosses I bear, emotional scars, regrets, etc...and I think, I lived through alot of crap over the years, and I'm still here, running a marathon. I never would have been able to do this, but here I am, and few hours of pain is nothing compared to years of emotional mumbo-jumbo. The finish line makes you a much better person than you were at the start. It's what I think of anyway.

 

[frank2271]

"The finish line makes you a much better person than you were at the start."




I like that!

 

[JillC LI]

Hi everyone,

Can anyone tell me how difficult it will be to transition to a full marathon distance from training for the half? It wasn't too bad going from my training for the 13K last year to the half, I'm hoping that my transition to training for a full marathon will go as smoothly.

Also, I hear so much about "hitting the wall", I haven't had this happen to me yet and I'm kinda nervous about it. Can anyone share their experiences with "the wall" and how to deal with it?

Frank

As someone who went from being able to run 3 miles to completing a full marathon within 7 months time, I will say this, and you probably won't believe it, but it is true: when you are in the midst of a marathon training plan, and you are following it diligently, keeping up with both the total weekly mileage as well as the long runs, it truly is not any more difficult to complete 18 miles once you reach that point than it was to complete 8 miles the first time you did it. I was following a training plan that increased my long run by 2 miles every other week and dropped down in the intervening week. I, too, was frightening as heck each time I had to hit a new distance, but except for the last 2 miles or so, the physical task of running that distance did not require any extra effort at mile 16, for example, than it did at mile 10. You adapt and you get stronger.

My longest training runs were 18, 19, and 20, and I never hit "the wall" in training so I figured I was safe in the actual marathon until mile 20 and then all bets were off. I kept my pace, I drank and took gel at the proper times, so I was very surprised a little way's into mile 19 when I did hit the wall. I can describe exactly what it felt like to me. I had always imagined that exhaustion would come on gradually, but it wasn't like that at all. I was running along feeling strong when in an instant, I suddenly felt like my legs were lead. Scared the hell out of me. That was the moment when the race shifted from my legs to my head and heart. The world around me disappeared and I faded into my own mind telling myself how I "only" had about 10K left which I had done hundreds of times in training, and I was going to do this. Peripherally, as if in a fog, I saw people around me stopping to walk, and I kept telling myself "You didn't come here to walk" and "whatever you are suffering now will be worth it when you finish." I played word games and sang songs and did whatever I had to do to keep moving. Somewhere around mile 23 I guess one of the gels kicked in and I felt a tad stronger, and when I passed the 25 mile marker, I knew I was going to make it. But that Wall was a b*tch.

My strongest suggestion is that you buy the book The Non-Runners Guide to the Marathon by Dave Whitsett because it really trains your mind along with your body to handle the marathon. If I can do it, anyone can - at least, that is, anyone who really wants it.

 

[frank2271]

What a great story, thanks for sharing. Your story echos a few of my other buddies I have talked to, they told me that it doesn't hit you gradually, it slams you all at once. OUCH! :brick: It is all heart after that I guess.

Thanks again,

Frank

 

[joel_maxwell]

As someone who went from being able to run 3 miles to completing a full marathon within 7 months time, I will say this, and you probably won't believe it, but it is true: when you are in the midst of a marathon training plan, and you are following it diligently, keeping up with both the total weekly mileage as well as the long runs, it truly is not any more difficult to complete 18 miles once you reach that point than it was to complete 8 miles the first time you did it. I was following a training plan that increased my long run by 2 miles every other week and dropped down in the intervening week. I, too, was frightening as heck each time I had to hit a new distance, but except for the last 2 miles or so, the physical task of running that distance did not require any extra effort at mile 16, for example, than it did at mile 10. You adapt and you get stronger.

My longest training runs were 18, 19, and 20, and I never hit "the wall" in training so I figured I was safe in the actual marathon until mile 20 and then all bets were off. I kept my pace, I drank and took gel at the proper times, so I was very surprised a little way's into mile 19 when I did hit the wall. I can describe exactly what it felt like to me. I had always imagined that exhaustion would come on gradually, but it wasn't like that at all. I was running along feeling strong when in an instant, I suddenly felt like my legs were lead. Scared the hell out of me. That was the moment when the race shifted from my legs to my head and heart. The world around me disappeared and I faded into my own mind telling myself how I "only" had about 10K left which I had done hundreds of times in training, and I was going to do this. Peripherally, as if in a fog, I saw people around me stopping to walk, and I kept telling myself "You didn't come here to walk" and "whatever you are suffering now will be worth it when you finish." I played word games and sang songs and did whatever I had to do to keep moving. Somewhere around mile 23 I guess one of the gels kicked in and I felt a tad stronger, and when I passed the 25 mile marker, I knew I was going to make it. But that Wall was a b*tch.

My strongest suggestion is that you buy the book The Non-Runners Guide to the Marathon by Dave Whitsett because it really trains your mind along with your body to handle the marathon. If I can do it, anyone can - at least, that is, anyone who really wants it.

Thanks Jill. I want this challenge so bad. Today is day 1 of 18 weeks. I needed that week off after the W&D.

What a great story, thanks for sharing. Your story echos a few of my other buddies I have talked to, they told me that it doesn't hit you gradually, it slams you all at once. OUCH! :brick: It is all heart after that I guess.

Thanks again,

Frank

Make the mind run the body. That is your body telling you that it is weak and should probably slow down. It is a false safety mechanism. This is of course what I tell myself about general fatigue and challenges. I havent faced the wall yet. I hope I have the fate of some of my friends that it only lasted 1 mile.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I picked my schedule today. Nothing like waiting till the last minute huh. It starts tomorrow. I think Im going to do the Hal Higdon Novice version. I would love to do the Intermediate, but it just requires a little more mileage than I think would be smart to take on with my life and requirements right now.

Sounds like we're going to be doing the same schedule. I'm on Week 6 of Hal's marathon novice training. Are you prepping for January?

As someone who went from being able to run 3 miles to completing a full marathon within 7 months time

Wow, same as me. I ran a 5K for the first time May 1, and I'm determined to do the WDW full in January.

I can't speak to the dreaded "wall" since I'm only up to 10 miles on my long runs so far, but I can say that so far your [JillC LI] experience matches mine...SO FAR, no individual run has felt much tougher than any previous run. I'm just going to trust that that will continue to be the case for me.

Some of you guys like Donald Duck and Phonedave have mentioned stretching out your glycogen stores through nutrition...can you be a little more specific? What should you eat, and for how long before a long run? I pretty much eat like crap, and so far have gotten away with it.

To the OP: If you're worried about jumping from 13.1 to 26.2, I can tell you I'm jumping from a 10K distance to a full. I'm just too focused on my daily distances to get too nervous about the end result. :shrug:

 

[joel_maxwell]

Sounds like we're going to be doing the same schedule. I'm on Week 6 of Hal's marathon novice training. Are you prepping for January?

Mine is local here in Birmingham. It is the Mercedes February 13th. That is the difference in schedules. Im interested to do the Hal Higdon. i havent done his yet.

Wow, same as me. I ran a 5K for the first time May 1, and I'm determined to do the WDW full in January.

I can't speak to the dreaded "wall" since I'm only up to 10 miles on my long runs so far, but I can say that so far your [JillC LI] experience matches mine...SO FAR, no individual run has felt much tougher than any previous run. I'm just going to trust that that will continue to be the case for me.

Some of you guys like Donald Duck and Phonedave have mentioned stretching out your glycogen stores through nutrition...can you be a little more specific? What should you eat, and for how long before a long run? I pretty much eat like crap, and so far have gotten away with it.

To the OP: If you're worried about jumping from 13.1 to 26.2, I can tell you I'm jumping from a 10K distance to a full. I'm just too focused on my daily distances to get too nervous about the end result. :shrug:

I started running last November in a couch to 10K program. Half way through I needed a bigger challenge. I ran that 10K and then last Feb did my first Half. I completed 3 halves this past year and Feb 2011 will be my first attempt at a Full.

I eat very good for someone who doesnt like Veggies. i eat bland foods. I bake a lot of chicken with only Extra Virgin Olive Oil and some pepper. I eat a lot of red potatoes. I eat a lot of peanut butter and like honey on my bagels. (good for muscle recovery) I like some fruits and just eat sensible. That is one of the challenges I faced at WDW last month since I was on property for 4 days before the race. Lord, I was dieing of the over sodium filling foods. It was killing me.