ToT Fight!!!

[sweetpee_1993]

Crazy...thought this only happens at Six Flags????

Time for some "Ear Marshals?:shrug:

I can hear it now, Olymympia Dukakis in Steel Magnolias crooning: "Spoken like a true smart-a**...." :lol:

Damn, I wish we were still cruisin' with y'all... like ducks findin' the water....

 

[raven]

In other words - your job wins over common decency? It's pathetic that Disney won't even stand up for their own employees in a situation where someone's personal safety is on the line.

Cast Members are hired to do their own job. Security is hired to do theirs.

 

[raven]

In other words - your job wins over common decency? It's pathetic that Disney won't even stand up for their own employees in a situation where someone's personal safety is on the line.

Cast Members are hired to do their own job. Security is hired to do theirs.

 

[flynnibus]

Cast Members are hired to do their own job. Security is hired to do theirs.

There is a big difference between protocol for everyone's safety - and penalizing people blindly for being compassionate human beings.

This world has gotten so sterile and people so conditioned to rely on authority to solve all the world's problems.. we can't cope when someone comes along who won't play by the 'rules'.

This situation illustrates it.. because it's not supposed to happen, everyone can't cope.

imagine if the stories told by Jack Linquist about the park management getting physically involved in the Yippie incident lead to them all being fired based on policy instead of common sense.

Know why companies have so many layers of management and policies they must blindly enforced? Because they don't empower people or trust people.

It will be a sad day for a CM when they have to watch someone die when they could have done something... but didn't because they were brainwashed into thinking their freaking JOB was more important than helping another human being in need.

Reminds me of the story of the USS Truxon and Pollux. The ships were wrecked during a storm off Newfoundland during WWII. Survivors managed to climb steep cliffs, and find their way to a local mine. When the mine workers heard of the situation, they all just stopped working, gathered supplies and headed to the wreck site to help. Putting themselves in harm's way to help complete strangers.. foreigners no less. No one stood around and said 'I can't leave because my lead isn't here.. or risking losing my job by leaving is more important than saving another man's life'.

The idea someone's job is more important than people's lives is just sickening.

Read stories of real heros like these - http://www.weather.com/outlook/weat...s/truxton-pollux-maritime-disaster_2012-02-16 and remember a time when people actually valued compassion and self sacrafice. Not 'defendable positions'.

 

[raven]

There is a big difference between protocol for everyone's safety - and penalizing people blindly for being compassionate human beings.

This world has gotten so sterile and people so conditioned to rely on authority to solve all the world's problems.. we can't cope when someone comes along who won't play by the 'rules'.

This situation illustrates it.. because it's not supposed to happen, everyone can't cope.

imagine if the stories told by Jack Linquist about the park management getting physically involved in the Yippie incident lead to them all being fired based on policy instead of common sense.

Know why companies have so many layers of management and policies they must blindly enforced? Because they don't empower people or trust people.

It will be a sad day for a CM when they have to watch someone die when they could have done something... but didn't because they were brainwashed into thinking their freaking JOB was more important than helping another human being in need.

Reminds me of the story of the USS Truxon and Pollux. The ships were wrecked during a storm off Newfoundland during WWII. Survivors managed to climb steep cliffs, and find their way to a local mine. When the mine workers heard of the situation, they all just stopped working, gathered supplies and headed to the wreck site to help. Putting themselves in harm's way to help complete strangers.. foreigners no less. No one stood around and said 'I can't leave because my lead isn't here.. or risking losing my job by leaving is more important than saving another man's life'.

The idea someone's job is more important than people's lives is just sickening.

Read stories of real heros like these - http://www.weather.com/outlook/weat...s/truxton-pollux-maritime-disaster_2012-02-16 and remember a time when people actually valued compassion and self sacrafice. Not 'defendable positions'.

This was not a life or death situation. Did you even notice the hoards of other people standing around gawking or just standing there? Why didn't they help?

If it is "common decency" then why didn't those people that jumped to help jump in any sooner? You are trying to blame the CMs when it was actually a security issue.

 

[flynnibus]

Policy in many businesses that deal with crowds of people. The legal issues involved are just too much to have employees who aren't trained for it be involved with physical any thing with a guest. Anyone's guess what was running through that guys mind.

Instead of teaching how and encouraging responsibility, companies replace it with hierarchy and policy.

It's what companies do when their ability to hire goes down the tubes. Why bother with making great employees if you can replace them with cheaper ones that don't have to think because you take everything away but policies and scripts. It's why you can't get decent support or customer service in so many places.

 

[flynnibus]

This was not a life or death situation. Did you even notice the hoards of other people standing around gawking or just standing there? Why didn't they help?

If it is "common decency" then why didn't those people that jumped to help jump in any sooner? You are trying to blame the CMs when it was actually a security issue.

You need to go back and re-read the posts. I didn't blame the CMs. I was commenting on your description of Disney policy to repremand the employees REGARDLESS of severity or right/wrong and your position that getting involved in helping other people isn't worth losing your job over.

 

[raven]

You need to go back and re-read the posts. I didn't blame the CMs. I was commenting on your description of Disney policy to repremand the employees REGARDLESS of severity or right/wrong and your position that getting involved in helping other people isn't worth losing your job over.

They were helping others by letting security handle it like they are supposed to do. All Disney needs in yet another story in the news about CMs hurting someone and getting involved in a scuff when it's not their job.

Some management in areas of Disney aren't as forgiving of their CMs and tend to discipline more than praise.

 

[flynnibus]

Watch some one die???? That's over the top for this situation and the WW2 story I won't even address that.

If you follow this type of thinking.. that can very much happen and people will have to live with haunting that they didn't do anything because they were worried about losing their job??

I get that people are worried about their safety or their ability to help - but being worried about losing your JOB should be the last thing on your mind when someone is in peril. That is why you need to read the WWII story about the Truxton and Pollux. It seems modern society things the authorities are always going to be there to help you - they can't always be there and there will be times when they won't.

The policies are there for the most part for a reason. What would happen if that "drunk guy" actually had a stroke and was totally disoriented causing him to just fight anything he thought he was being attacked by?? A few CM's jump him, punch him till he stops moving and then toss him over a barrier for good measure?? Next thing guy has a stroke at Disneyland. killed by CM's news at 11. Also what makes you think some interns have the skills at all to stop that guy?? I'm thinking the CM's don't come from the rough part of town in general. Is fighting and security under their job title>>> No it's not.

It's a strawman to take it to the point of beating the guy up and doing things for 'good measure'. Employees should be trained in what to do in common situations and given guidance on what takes priority. Saving your JOB doesn't take priority over assisting someone in need.

The CMs don't need to get physical with the guy - but to have a position where your job is to keep the crowd back and no one should get involved when the guy is getting the crap beat out of him.. or fear losing your job? That's just sad.

What if the guy started strangling the security guy? Should everyone sit back and watch for fear of losing their job?

If the world followed policy like this to the letter - it would be a sad sad world where no one helps anyone else - they just pick up their cell phone and wait for someone else to assist. Some day people will be in an environment where there is no one else. Or they are on the other side.

Taking things into your own hands isn't just for macho people will disrepect for rules or authority - sometimes it's required because there is no other alternative.

 

[flynnibus]

They were helping others by letting security handle it like they are supposed to do. All Disney needs in yet another story in the news about CMs hurting someone and getting involved in a scuff when it's not their job.

Some management in areas of Disney aren't as forgiving of their CMs and tend to discipline more than praise. I once went out of my way to get a wheelchair for a woman getting off the monorail that could barely walk. She was all alone and needed to go back to her car. So I took her all the way down the ramp (at Epcot) and out to her car. When I returned I was told by my management that "it wasn't my area to get involved and not to do it again."

Which is why I'm pointing the finger at Disney and their policies... and brainwashing people that policy supercedes compassion.

 

[raven]

Which is why I'm pointing the finger at Disney and their policies... and brainwashing people that policy supercedes compassion.

Compassion? :veryconfu This situation is now getting out of hand. Is someone standing by with the pepper spray? :lol:

 

[Victoria]

A very disturbing video indeed. First off, it surprises me that it took over 4 minutes for some security back up. Also, it appears that no real crowd control (in the form of managers) showed up for quite some time either. I know ToT is in a kind of remote area of Cali Adventure but there still had to have been someone close enough to show up in under 4 min. In WDW at least you can't walk 50 feet without tripping over at least one manager or a security guard. On past trips to DL I have noticed this to not be the case at all. Security there seems to be a lot less visible. I imagine that 4 minutes would be long enough for regular police officers to arrive even. :shrug:

The people filming and the annoying yelling lady leave a lot to be desired too. All they did was instigate the situation. I am also surprised it took as long as it did for guests to get involved too. In these types of situations bystanders are generally in the mix sooner...particularly when there is minimal crowd control and no one seems to be handling the situation. Maybe it is just me, but I probably would have jumped in as soon as I saw the CM getting attacked (knowing he isn't allowed to fight back). I do have advanced physical and therapeutic restraint training from working in a psychiatric setting but I wouldn't have hesitated....and I am short, young, and female. :lol: I've handled worse than this drunk d-bag. I hope the CM involved is ok and still employed. I hope the guest got to spend some time in jail and will have to spend some quality time at the courthouse. I imagine he won't be welcome back to the Happiest Place on Earth either.

 

[flynnibus]

Flynnibus I have worked in a job were it was in the job description to remove trouble makers and if need be call the police on them if they wouldn't move along (last option by far). No big deal. All the guys who worked there were 6 ft 200 lbs or so and we trained new guys on what to do. Wildly busy night club and it was a fun place to work with part of that being throwing trouble makers out the door. That guy at ToT is nothing, we would have had him out of there in 20 seconds but that's not what Disney CM's are trained to do and most will not have the size or skills to cleanly handle that situation. It not macho it's just being a realist. The CM's look like they're 130-140 lbs nothing wrong with that but they are going to have a very hard time doing anything with that guy. BTW pepper spraying someone and tell them to lay isn't going to work, pepper spray makes people angry and that guy was cornered, he either has to go or you need to wait for who ever is supposed to take trouble makers out of the park. Pepper spray is just going to amp up the situation which is the last thing you want to do.
I'm looking at from a been there done that attitude and any way you do it it's going to end up messy and real security can't be every where in the park all the time.

You train people for this - size isn't really an issue. Especially with a completely uncoordinated person like this. It doesn't take someone huge to take them down.. drag them out? different story, but here the guy was trying to contain and stay off him at the same time. The problem is Disney obviously has been sending conflicting messages to this security guy because he obviously is afraid of making contact with the guy.. even when he's just crawling at his feet.

The guy was agitated to where he wasn't going to stay contained on his own. The pepper spray just escalated the whole thing. Not because it was used - but because it was used ineffectively. Then you had the poor training or at least conflicting principles for the security guy causing him to be ineffective in physically corralling the guy.

One question for you, how many times have you jumped right in there to help tackle some wild man??? Bet the answer is none.

I'm a 6' 2' 200+lb former wrestler.. I don't shy away from that But I haven't had to be in any scuffles that got all the way to this point since university days. Normally the bar bouncers are there far before this happens. I was thrown out of the Bellagio just a few years ago because a bunch of wannabes wanted to act tough in the casino bar. Security got there far before drunks were crawling around on the floor

 

[AndrewnPatricia]

Nice to find the original thread. :ROFLOL:
Yeah, girl truly annoying but I smell a fix just to be a YouTube sensation.

BTW

TRULY EPIC.

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Policy in many businesses that deal with crowds of people. The legal issues involved are just too much to have employees who aren't trained for it be involved with physical any thing with a guest. Anyone's guess what was running through that guys mind.

Yep. This is even the policy at many small retailers. It is sad that at least a manager or someone else didn't show up, but there wasn't TOO much else they could have done.

These things happen. People act like idiots. Move on with your day.

 

[Billy6]

Oh, I see what you did there. This is a job for secuRATy

Wouldn't that be awesome..walk around the parks, ride the rides, eat dole whips and then "whip" someone's butt and slap the cuff on them for ruining your magical time? That would be a job, I'd sign up for...I'm sure there may be some detectives that the guests don't know about as an OP stated for shoplifters...Why shouldn't there be one for situations like the video??

 

[Billy6]

I can hear it now, Olymympia Dukakis in Steel Magnolias crooning: "Spoken like a true smart-a**...." :lol:

Damn, I wish we were still cruisin' with y'all... like ducks findin' the water....

Did you like that one? Came up with it all by myself!

Same here, it definately would have been a hoot! Heather was bummed as well...We'll have to have a drink every night in memorium

:animwink:

 

[Disneydreamer23]

woman was very annoying im suprised disney let her tape that! This reminds me of high school when every one stands around and watches bahahah

 

[Thunder Kz]

No. Disney management doesn't see it as the CM "helping" the situation but rather "getting involved." They would've been punished and it isn't worth loosing your job over.

Don't know why backup didn't arrive sooner. In WDW security is increasing more and more, even within the last 6 months. Orange Co. is only a call away and they are always lingering around the parks anyway.

YES. Being a human being is a pre-req to being a CM.

 

[JasonP]

I dunno. I am sure that the drunkard was a bit off his rocker and did need to be dealt with but this guy was peppered way too much. Around the middle of the video he is standing wiping his eyes, muttering under his breathe, when the security guard sprayed him without any provocation. I can't blame him for attacking the guard after that.