News Tomorrowland love

[Buried20KLeague]

Let's be honest. Minus ToT Tokyo pretty much has the best of all attractions.

I enjoyed the plot line of Tokyo's tower better (the over-zealous artifact hunter) than the TZ theme. The Shariki pre-show is awesome. It's missing the 5th dimension room from WDW, but that doesn't really bother me.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

just watched a video...the way it was designed flume wise is slick scenes aside....the overpass where you can see the fort battle before you drop down was cool. also the explosives drop was well done. my only critique would be that i favor the architecture of WDWs village/fort. A very minor and opinion based squabble. simply better it is indeed.

One of the coolest details in Paris's Pirates is one I bet gets missed by many.

Before you go down the flume, if you look off into the distance at the base of the flume, there's a giant skull made out of rocks... But the closer you get and go down the flume, the skull disappears and it's just a random assortment of rocks.

I spent a few minutes trying to find an image and couldn't. Maybe @marni1971 has one.

 

[Mike S]

One of the coolest details in Paris's Pirates is one I bet gets missed by many.

Before you go down the flume, if you look off into the distance at the base of the flume, there's a giant skull made out of rocks... But the closer you get and go down the flume, the skull disappears and it's just a random assortment of rocks.

I spent a few minutes trying to find an image and couldn't. Maybe @marni1971 has one.

Same thing exists in WDW. It was added alongside the Mermaids.

 

[marni1971]

One of the coolest details in Paris's Pirates is one I bet gets missed by many.

Before you go down the flume, if you look off into the distance at the base of the flume, there's a giant skull made out of rocks... But the closer you get and go down the flume, the skull disappears and it's just a random assortment of rocks.

I spent a few minutes trying to find an image and couldn't. Maybe @marni1971 has one.

I've my video of it.

 

[marni1971]

Same thing exists in WDW. It was added alongside the Mermaids.

And this.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Same thing exists in WDW. It was added alongside the Mermaids.

Hm. I'm trying to remember if I even noticed that. I don't believe I did.

I love that subtle stuff though.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I enjoyed the plot line of Tokyo's tower better (the over-zealous artifact hunter) than the TZ theme. The Shariki pre-show is awesome. It's missing the 5th dimension room from WDW, but that doesn't really bother me.

Missing the 5th dimension is huge for me. That's where we differ because I agree with everything else.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Vintage MK was immensely superior to DL. Somewhere along the line it went downhill for us, while DL has had more of an uphill/downhill ride.

MK was, without question, the better designed park. Made by the same WED designers who gave us New Orleans Square and the World's Fair exhibits, it benefitted from over a decade of Disneyland operating experience and a much more substantial budget to work with. Many attractions were made longer and/or with more detail and the new exclusive stuff (CBJ, HoP, MMR, SM) made extensive use of the latest tech WED could get their hands on. MK of the mid-to-late 70s was easily better than its West Coast counterpart, and arguably remained so until the early 1990s.

The difference now is that many of the design and operating practices that were put in place at opening have been removed or neglected over time. This doesn't just include rides like 20K or Toad, but architectural features like the Tomorrowland towers, the Fantasyland Skyway chalet and hillside, the original hub, pavement details (now just flat, plain red), unique shops, barker brids, counter service restaurants that served food on real plates with cuttlery (they still have the dishwahers apparently), more frequently updated daytime parades, the Saloon Revue, Tom Sawyer Island's spinning and teeter-totter rocks, the Fife & Drum corps, Tomorrowland stage shows, park benches, West Centre Street, restaurant menus in binders (like King Stefan's used to have), breakfast at Tony's...the list goes on.

DLR simply does a better job at "plussing" their rides and keeping them in good working order, which gives the impression of a better experience than their MK counterparts, even if the latter's versions are longer (Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan) or better laid out (Small World, Space Mountain).

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

^^ I agree with so much of what you've said! Yet, Fantasyland felt full of pavement and minimal charm (20K aside), and Frontierland seemed very incomplete and almost an afterthought.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

^^ I agree with so much of what you've said! Yet, Fantasyland felt full of pavement and minimal charm (20K aside), and Frontierland seemed very incomplete and almost an afterthought.

Frontierland was more or less unifnished until BTMRR opened in 1980. Once that happened, it became a complete experience. The main advantage MK has in this area over DL, is that MK is actually located in the real-life American south, which adds to the authenticity of experiences like the Mississippi riverboat and Tom Sawyer's Island.

Old Fantasyland did have more texture than most give credit, and that in large part has to do with the original paint scheme and the planters that were at the base of the Skyway towers. The resaon why the land looked flat towards the east end was to help act as a transition to Tomorrowland (which at the time was all white, smooth concrete). I will say though, that aspect/area never really worked 100%.

 

[Mike S]

She sounds like the kind of person that should become CEO.

Or at least in charge of all of MK rather than just Tomorrowland. Then, all 4 WDW parks.

 

[brb1006]

MK was, without question, the better designed park. Made by the same WED designers who gave us New Orleans Square and the World's Fair exhibits, it benefitted from over a decade of Disneyland operating experience and a much more substantial budget to work with. Many attractions were made longer and/or with more detail and the new exclusive stuff (CBJ, HoP, MMR, SM) made extensive use of the latest tech WED could get their hands on. MK of the mid-to-late 70s was easily better than its West Coast counterpart, and arguably remained so until the early 1990s.

The difference now is that many of the design and operating practices that were put in place at opening have been removed or neglected over time. This doesn't just include rides like 20K or Toad, but architectural features like the Tomorrowland towers, the Fantasyland Skyway chalet and hillside, the original hub, pavement details (now just flat, plain red), unique shops, barker brids, counter service restaurants that served food on real plates with cuttlery (they still have the dishwahers apparently), more frequently updated daytime parades, the Saloon Revue, Tom Sawyer Island's spinning and teeter-totter rocks, the Fife & Drum corps, Tomorrowland stage shows, park benches, West Centre Street, restaurant menus in binders (like King Stefan's used to have), breakfast at Tony's...the list goes on.

DLR simply does a better job at "plussing" their rides and keeping them in good working order, which gives the impression of a better experience than their MK counterparts, even if the latter's versions are longer (Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan) or better laid out (Small World, Space Mountain).

Don't forget the trees at the hub. Since they used to sparkle at night giving the illusion that it's pixie dust.

 

[DznyRktekt]

Don't forget the trees at the hub. Since they used to sparkle at night giving the illusion that it's pixie dust.

Such a contrast to today. Similar to when a person buys a wooded lot to build a dream home and then scrapes it completely clear of any flora in order to see the lake.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I had the opportunity to meet the new sheriff in town today. She's a delightful person and seems to have great enthusiasm for revitalizing TL. Some effects within Space Mtn. are to be plussed, but that overhaul people here are hoping for looks unlikely, at least pre-50th. I was also happy to hear that WDI is in talks to fix the ending of CoP and that "it's not going anywhere."

At last, a WDW executive I can feel optimistic about.

I so very truly hope that the "fix" of CoP doesn't happen other then updating AA's, sound, etc. Any tampering with the last scene, in my mind, will mean that absolute end of CoP as soon as people start to complain again about how dated it is. (which will be about two weeks after they finish updating) They cannot move the last scene forward without losing the continuity of the story line. It needs to remain a historic show about the 20th century otherwise it become unrealistic, unconnected and just plain folly. If they want to display the continuation of progress of humans all they have to do is build an attraction that points out the look into the future. Maybe they could call it Horizons or something. Wait!!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Such a contrast to today. Similar to when a person buys a wooded lot to build a dream home and then scrapes it completely clear of any flora in order to see the lake.

Unless they built that house because they wanted to see the lake. Trees are everywhere lakes tend to be in specific locations. It you went to Europe to see many of the Castles that the entire idea of MK's Castle is based on, you would see that they are surrounded by low height gardens with fountains, etc. Highlighting the visibility of the Castle and in a more practical sense so that enemies could not sneak up on them sneaking through the wooded areas unseen. They do try to do fantasy in a realistic fashion.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I so very truly hope that the "fix" of CoP doesn't happen other then updating AA's, sound, etc. Any tampering with the last scene, in my mind, will mean that absolute end of CoP as soon as people start to complain again about how dated it is. (which will be about two weeks after they finish updating) They cannot move the last scene forward without losing the continuity of the story line. It needs to remain a historic show about the 20th century otherwise it become unrealistic, unconnected and just plain folly. If they want to display the continuation of progress of humans all they have to do is build an attraction that points out the look into the future. Maybe they could call it Horizons of something. Wait!!

You're beginning to sound like your old sensible self!

CoP scene IV can't bridge a gap wider than scene I to scene III. In a 2017 scene technology and family discontinuation looms. Personally I would just redo it into the original, and then leave it as a historical attraction forever. CoP is about 20th century progress. It has historical meaning, it has Disney-history meaning (you can see the optimism of TL and the germination of EPCOT), it has meaning to and about Walt, and meaning as a presentation about general progress.

 

[NearTheEars]

Unless they built that house because they wanted to see the lake. Trees are everywhere lakes tend to be in specific locations. It you went to Europe to see many of the Castles that the entire idea of MK's Castle is based on, you would see that they are surrounded by low height gardens with fountains, etc. Highlighting the visibility of the Castle and in a more practical sense so that enemies could not sneak up on them sneaking through the wooded areas unseen. They do try to do fantasy in a realistic fashion.

I understand your opinion on the trees, but I think originally they served more as a buffer between the castle and MSUSA. So when you entered the park the castle seemed more off in the distance. As if you were on the outskirts of a kingdom.

The new hub is, as you said very reminiscent of the landscaped areas surrounding a real castle and I like that aspect. Just wish they could have accomplished both.

 

[DznyRktekt]

Unless they built that house because they wanted to see the lake. Trees are everywhere lakes tend to be in specific locations. It you went to Europe to see many of the Castles that the entire idea of MK's Castle is based on, you would see that they are surrounded by low height gardens with fountains, etc. Highlighting the visibility of the Castle and in a more practical sense so that enemies could not sneak up on them sneaking through the wooded areas unseen. They do try to do fantasy in a realistic fashion.

I have been to Europe and toured castles. None of which had the amount of concrete and go away green light poles that the new hub has embraced.

 

[lnsemsf]

I have been to Europe and toured castles. None of which had the amount of concrete and go away green light poles that the new hub has embraced.

They also don't have a 20th century and 18th century American town a few feet away either. It's a theme park, not a scale recreation of a castle. You make do balancing necessity with theme.

 

[Rob562]

You're beginning to sound like your old sensible self!

CoP scene IV can't bridge a gap wider than scene I to scene III. In a 2017 scene technology and family discontinuation looms. Personally I would just redo it into the original, and then leave it as a historical attraction forever. CoP is about 20th century progress. It has historical meaning, it has Disney-history meaning (you can see the optimism of TL and the germination of EPCOT), it has meaning to and about Walt, and meaning as a presentation about general progress.

Since the four existing scenes are essentially "wedges" within the building, I've always wondered if there was enough room in the wedge of the unload theater to add a Scene 5 that could be more of a jump to a Horizons-like vision of the future.

One caveat is that this would require being able to Load and Unload simultaneously at what is currently the Load theater position.

-Rob