Tipping Mousekeeping

[Laketravis]

In regards to housekeeping at a WDW resort, I keep seeing the point made that tipping is considered appropriate for those types of service jobs that don't pay a living wage. No argument those hard working folks shouldn't have to struggle to pay rent or put food on the table, but who's responsibility is it to provide that living wage? I would argue that at some point it becomes the responsibility of the employer. If Disney is charging $500 a night for a resort room, certainly they can pay housekeeping at a level that many would then regard as not requiring a tip?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So... I've seen this a few times, and I'm not sure that statement is accurate. It is my understanding that if not enough tips are brought in, the employer is required to pay the difference between the server minimum wage and the federally-mandated hourly minimum wage. At least that is what I heard from my daughter's boyfriend, who is a server. But, maybe that is unique to just his restaurant? So, as I understand, while a server could make more than the hourly minimum wage with lots of tips, they would never make less.

Anyone else actually work as a server in the USA, have any insight to share?

Servers at decent restaurants make way more than minimum wage. So you're correct that you can't screw them beyond minimum wage, but you can still screw them beyond their expected wage.

 

[xdan0920]

Maybe it's a social norm for you, but it's not a social norm for everyone based on what has been shared by others, and especially not a norm outside of the USA. FWIW, I had never heard of tipping housekeeping until mid-way into my career (almost 30 years) and I did a lot of travel for work.
I don't understand why you can't accept that others have a different experience, and thus have provided different data points that tipping is not the norm for all people in all situations.
I'm not asking you to change your opinion about tipping. And, I have no problem with anyone tipping or not tipping - that is a personal decision, IMHO. But, if you think that name calling and derogatory replies are going to help you convince others on this board to change their opinions... well... maybe it's time to un-follow this thread and enjoy some of the other discussions.

Tipping or not is a personal decision. Sure.

However. It is indisputably a social norm in the United States. It's not a social norm "for me" that's not what a social norm is. It's not an individual thing. It's universally accepted in the USA that you tip house keeping. That's what a norm is. If you don't want to tip, then don't. But realize you are doing something abnormal.

 

[flynnibus]

There are plenty of social etiquette norms that aren't spelled out because they are generally accepted by most.

Yeah but now adays 'anyone can publish anything' and that leads to all kinds of BS becoming 'common' because 95% of people will pass something along without any concern about how it reflects on them or qualification. It's how ideas build steam without anything really behind them except campaigning.

Can anyone articulate how the tipping standard has moved from 15%, to 18%, to 20+% and keeps accelerating? Its more of this 'well I heard...' stuff combined with the strategy of 'just don't be the worst... and hide in their shadow' philosophy taking over pricing.

 

[flynnibus]

Wow, I can't believe you guys are arguing over semantics and personal preference. There is no standard as to who deserves a tip and who does not, each person sees things differently and will not always see a need to tip in situations where others do. But all in all no one should be insulted or called out for the personal choices they make in reference to this issue. (EDIT: Except people who don't tip wait staff, waiters in the US are paid less than minimum wage in most places and depend on tips to make ends meet.)

This is misconception at it's best. There are standards... it's established between employers and employees in terms of HOW THEY ARE PAID. The idea that people can get below min wage when tips are included IS BECAUSE OF THAT CONVENTION. It's a concession in the law based on PRE-EXISTING employment conventions. Not the other way around. The law gives employers credit for compensation that wasn't intended to come from the employer. People hire into the jobs WITH THE EXPECTATION of tips being part of their 'regular and customary' compensation. Employers have established that expectation with their customers.

The way I look at it is Mousekeeping does something that directly affects your stay at Disney, they clean your room, bring you extra amenities, and many of them will go above and beyond to do something magical/unique in your room as a little surprise for your kids (towel animals, arranging toys in a playful way, leaving extra stuff, etc..). It is not in their job description to do the extra things they do for guests

It is... it's why they are TRAINED in those skills and is defined what they are allowed to do, and why you have such a consistency in what they do. Disney is not a job that allows their front-line CMs to wander from company policy.

 

[flynnibus]

It's universally accepted in the USA that you tip house keeping.

No it's not... which is why survey after survey reveal significant percentages of people that do not tip that position. Just because some people post you should, doesn't make that the 'universially accepted' standard, nor that it is even the dominate position.

You can take your pick on cite... the reality is while wait staff will be counted in the 90++% for people tipping them, housekeeping will be half of that at best.

 

[disney4life2008]

This is all part of his philosophy doctorate, trolling a Disney message board by pretending to be a terrible human being to see how people react, I suspect.

Nope. I am a well established 34 year old African American man. Thank you very much

 

[flynnibus]

Er, you may be struggling with the definition of societal norms.

So if someone introduces themselves as 'we work only for tips'... do you then decide you don't have to pay them because in YOUR world of 'societal norms' that person may not be a tipped role? The rules are kind of difficult in your 'norms' world eh?

People continue to confuse the separation between 'gratuity' and 'payment'. Some jobs are paid based on service level.. and some jobs its customary to reward service with a GRATUITY. The former is usually communicated or has been established by the employers with the staff. The latter is solely at the discretion of the receiver.

The problem is people have taken GRATUITIES based on their perceptions.. and tried to apply that to everyone as a NORM. It's nothing but guilt tripping. And why tip jars have appeared everywhere... even where people don't hire in with that expectation, nor is it the NORM.. yet some people are gullible enough to think it is because they see the jar.

 

[disney4life2008]

Hadn't thought of that angle, but it does make sense.

Nope. Again, i am a well established 34 year old African American man. And I will add with a PH.D. I am part of the 1 percent of the United States. Thanks though.

 

[flynnibus]

I guess that I am not agreeing with what the marked value is for some jobs.

Well unlike 'social norms' -- it's not something people get to make up on their own Market factors control it, not emotions.

 

[flynnibus]

social norm
noun


an expected form of behavior in a given situation
` Dictionary.com

Gratuity
noun, plural gratuities.
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter orbellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand

Dictionary.com

 

[flynnibus]

Some jobs pay a living wage, like yours.
Some don't, like service positions. People in those positions rely on tips to supplement their salary. It's a weird way for things to work but that's how it currently is in most of America.

It's not a supplement - it's the expectation of the job.

What is the earning floor you based on who you tip or not? Since that seems to be your criteria on who we should be tipping..

 

[flynnibus]

This is the most succinct explanation. And it is very weird. I have an economics degree and tipping is widely studied.

For reasons both substantive and arcane, the economy has developed in a way that for certain classes of jobs, the employer essentially does not pay its employees the full fair value of the work, with the customer making up the difference through tips. This allows the employer to charge its customers less for the service it provide

Clearly those economists wasted their time... It's all defined by 'social norms'. They should have just been psychologists instead

 

[flynnibus]

No. That's luck of the draw. I treat the delivery like I would any other bell service. So if I'm there I'll tip. If I'm not, then I don't.

So why is it the housekeeper gets a mandatory pass on this rule you've instituted... yet those other positions get the shaft?

Do you check which person cleaned your room before leaving the tip? Why are you so cheap and cold to the bellhops... yet have no such standard for the housekeepers?

 

[flynnibus]

I think it should be mandatory for everyone to spend at least a year working in the service industry. Maybe then people would appreciate how hard these people work to serve you.

I think it should be mandatory that everyone spend 6 weeks living in the wilderness by themselves followed by 6 weeks living in a small off the grid community. Hoping to teach them how to value themselves, things, and power of compassion and value of community instead of thinking the world always came from the telephone, the internet, or money.

One of these theories would build stronger people.. one would just try to teach empathy.

 

[flynnibus]

By law already restaurants have to ensure their employees have to make minimum wage. So if the server has a bad tip week, the owner has to make up the difference on their paycheck to minimum wage levels. So I would assume that if those norms changed an/or evolved, the owners would have to continue to do the same...

Except the numbers are not anywhere near that close... so your out really doesn't answer the question. If you'd like an easier one to digest, what if the 'social norm' for tipping suddenly changed in amount people should tip? Are all the social justice types going to tell the employees to suck it and become better people?? Because they need to accept the social norm?

I guess that type of mob morality works great when it aligns with your thinking... but is horrible at actually being an objective, quantifable standard.

Hey Mr Hardware Store guy... I know you love your family business... but its now the SOCIAL NORM to shop at Home Depot or Lowes... so no one cares that you didn't adapt and went out of business.

These quantifiers are easy to blow through...

 

[xdan0920]

So why is it the housekeeper gets a mandatory pass on this rule you've instituted... yet those other positions get the shaft?

Do you check which person cleaned your room before leaving the tip? Why are you so cheap and cold to the bellhops... yet have no such standard for the housekeepers?

Like I said. I'm not so worked up over it.

ME is a weird one because the bell hops, who usually come to your room while you are there, and therefore get tipped, often times deliver when you are not there. So it's odd. I do tip the baggage desk at the airline check in at the resort.

Whatever man, tip or don't.

 

[flynnibus]

One of the main problems with that is that it removes the financial incentive to pursue excellence. It's the reason I don't follow the "automatic" 18%. If someone is excellent, they get much more than that. If they're rude, they get less. Eliminating gratuity would mean that the crappy waiters are making just as much as the exceptional ones.

Social norm says you should always tip a minimum value.. so maybe you should start splitting your tip up. Mark which part is 'social norm to boost your wages' and separately lay out the gratuity portion. Maybe we can convince people to not pool the gratuity portion..

 

[flynnibus]

And someone will complain and say "then let Disney give bonuses to the excellent housekeepers" but there's no way for them to really be evaluated in that way due to the nature of the work.

What Disney lacks the ability to track who serviced what room? Nope..
Disney lacks the ability to capture the feedback of customers in their room? Nope..

It's not done because largely the systems fail at ACCURATELY reflect true feedback due to human nature, skewing and lack of objectivity. Evaluating metrics leads to gaming metrics.

 

[eeyoremum]

I am in the category of Mousekeeping is part of the room price. People may be against me, but everyone now wants a tip for doing what they are paid to do. They expect me to pay even more for a room that is already extremely bloated. If Mousekeeping was an option, they would list that separately from the room rate as an addon. We do not make a mess in our room and making a bed that I am simply going to mess up again is not worth more than I have already paid.

Housekeeping/Mousekeeping/cruise cabin cleaning are optional. Simply put the do not disturb sign out. I don't like people in my room.