Tigger Punches Guest??

[GothMickey]

Again, self defense is much different then accident. Hitting someone in self defense (ie, they hit you, you hit them back) in general doesn't warrant an apology (mind you, it would make one the bigger person if (s)he did). An accidental hit on the other hand (which the union is claiming) does warrant an apology.

Dude, the union is claming SELF DEFENSE!!! Read:

The union that represents Disney employees is speaking out in defense of Tigger. Union representative Donna Lyne Dolton said it was the teenager who was agitating the character, and she said it is clear from the videotape that the boy's parents were telling him not to get so close to Tigger. The Teamsters represent Disney characters and other hourly employees at Walt Disney World. Teamsters spokeswoman Dolton said Michael J. Fedelem, who plays Tigger, said the teen grabbed him from the back of his costume, cutting off the air to him. Fedelem said because of limited peripheral vision from the headpiece, he didn't realize when he swatted over with his arm, he didn't realize he was hitting the teen.

I don't see where the UNION says the CM accidently hit the teen. HE ACTED IN SELF DEFENSE. So, again, your logic is, if this kid swung and hit Tigger then Tigger hit back, it is ok... but since the kid CHOKED Tigger, then defending himself by swatting away the thing that causes you to choke ISN'T ok???? Cutting off air flow is not a reason to defend yourself and I don't know, maybe remove the thing causing you to gasp for air and choke??? Dude, stop, really... you sound worse and worse every time you add a comment.

 

[kerlothi]

im with the CM side as well as a former character perfomer in park west at magic kingdom.

im very familiar with the liberty tree dinner with one set of poo corner while the day and night shifts at ariels grotto and crystal palace switch out or whereever the pooh gang is now. (if your an CM you'll know what im talking about).

tiggers tail is a belt harness the belt wraps around your waist and theresa flat plastic/padded metal piece that goes to thelower mid back and the suit zips up to his neck and the helmet is a big bulky auqkward weighted thing where you only see a small oval out the front of your face.. thats atleast 4+" from your face which means absolutely zero periphial vision its straight ahead and down to about 3 feet infront of you... works the same way in goofy.

watching the video it looks like several things happened

1) the kid was told by his dad to get in the family photo.

the odd thing that caught my attantion was the way the kid put his hand to the mid back of tigger and leaned sideways toward him more often then not people will et close and wrap their arm around tiggers waist. when a teen hits the mid back of the costumn its the same location as the body zipper is hidden so we become very cautious once someone put their hand at the middle of the back...

2) the helm is basicly sitting on a persons head via hard hat liner with a chin strap

which means if somone grabs the head and pulls down from behind your head will go up the next reaction is dislodge yourself from the kid or teen which the tigger did but when he turned and went to steddy himself his paw bairly grazed the kids face. cause again the poor CM had no visual que where the kid was or who was there...

its very commen to for folks to run up on us from the side and try to do side photos real quick which is where the greeter is supposed to be there stoping people from doing this... again i mention zero visibility and strange people at your side = not a good time...

3) the same instant the kid grabbed tiggers head and pulled down tigger backed up and his left foot hit the curb which made tigger lose his ballence

so now you have a double threat on one hand a kid just grabbed your head behind and pulled downwards and 2 to brace yourself you step back and hit a curb so you quickly turn to catch yourself which is where the paw came across and lightly tapped the kids head... but also look at tiggers right arm its locked around the kids left arm holding it... which i take to mean he grabbed the kids arm to studdy himself and went for the kids left shoulder to ssteddy himself but his paw missed. and he got the kids head insted

now accidents happen i've tagged several kids with my goofy head by accident cause i was poseing and playing with them and kids wanna give you a big hug so you animate kisses and hugs and my nice big head came down and bopped the kid on the head usually i just rub the kids head and then animate crying and and then a im sorry pose the parents usually laugh and kids say its okay goofy i forgive you...

in this account from what i understand not only did tigger do the forgiveness animation and the parents where taken care of by the greeter but they wanted micheal to come out after his set and physically appologise to the family.. small problem not all of us carry a street clothes with us to our break rooms splash mountain characters do only becouse we have to walk through the park to get back to the main tunnel for lunch so we have to put normal sweat pants/shorts/jeans on and a typical t-shirt and take off our white WDW tshirts and black shorts and walk through the park to country bears tunnel and down stairs...

but the one thing we all cant do becouse of the magic is drop out of our costumns (fur) and come go oh im sorry for hitting you

after all what kind of magic would it be for your poor little kid if some stranger shows up and goes oh im sorry.... how r u as a parent gonna explain to your child that the characters are fake...you cant and you don't!

i just hope poor micheal doesn't lose his job over this its gonna be a devistateing heart break if he truely loves this job for it all to come crashing down becouse of 1 bad day and him being accused of hitting a guest in character is a very bad thing that is grounds for termination no if ands or buts thats how disney works...

 

[kerlothi]

...

 

[GothMickey]

This entire incident makes me want to be a Tigger character. GO TIGGER!!!

 

[MagliteL13]

ok,
I wasnt going to post to thread,
...
Sincerely,
Will....aka BABS

Wow! Even Babs throws in an opinion. (I'll see ya next week, btw).

 

[Emerald Rose]

I watched the latest report on this fiasco a couple of hours ago on a major New York News Station. The anchorperson couldn't even contain himself and cracked up laughing. He said that we need to remember that this is a "big stuffed animal" and asked where people's priorities were in this case.

I applauded the television!

Free Tigger!!!!!!!!

ICAM!! FREE TIGGER!!!:sohappy:

 

[MickeyJman06]

support tigger!

he did not do it. people do it for the $

the boy lied, he did do something wrong to tigger
all though his dad thinks he didn't do any harm
the truth
they boy was holding tigger around a spot he cant breath. so all that for nothing. my mom told me

A-Ha! he didn't punch the boy. the boy caused harm!
check back at the first post
click the link
while you're there click slide show
look closely at the boys arm. it is around the spot where he can't breath
please don't quote. this is serious.
by the way i'm not quiting :wave:
just not posting for a while now

 

[IFYOUHADWINGS]

I wonder if Disney has any security video of the incident???

 

[askmike1]

I don't see where the UNION says the CM accidently hit the teen.

Ummm.....how about the sentence right after your bolded one? "Fedelem said because of limited peripheral vision from the headpiece, he didn't realize when he swatted over with his arm, he didn't realize he was hitting the teen." That is 'accidental' in my book....not self defense.

Watch the video Tigger shakes the boys hand at the end of it. A hand shake can be a nonverbal apology.

From my take on the video, it doesn't appear Tigger's right hand ever let go of the kid's arm after the armlock. To tough for me to tell if it was a hand shake or just letting go of his hand.

 

[GothMickey]

Ummm.....how about the sentence right after your bolded one? "Fedelem said because of limited peripheral vision from the headpiece, he didn't realize when he swatted over with his arm, he didn't realize he was hitting the teen." That is 'accidental' in my book....not self defense.


From my take on the video, it doesn't appear Tigger's right hand ever let go of the kid's arm after the armlock. To tough for me to tell if it was a hand shake or just letting go of his hand.

How about the part where he says HE WAS BEING CHOKED? Or do you conveniently leave that off to try to prove your weak case? And you still fail to answer my question.... YOU come up next to me, grab my shirt, causing the neckline to cut into my throat, cutting off my air, choking me... I grab your arm and try to turn away from you in order to STOP CHOKING so I can breath again and I accidently hit you in your face. Do I owe you an apology cause YOU choked me or do YOU own me the apology for choking me?

 

[askmike1]

How about the part where he says HE WAS BEING CHOKED? Or do you conveniently leave that off to try to prove your weak case?

You keep looking at the cause. Quite frankly I don't care about the cause, that doesn't effect whether or not the CM was right. It's the effect I care about. And despite what was happening beforehand, the union is saying that the CM accidentally hit the kid. That's what the union said. If you want to keep trying to go around what they said, fine. But from what I've seen, they say the 'hit' was an accident.

 

[Wbnemo1]

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you Askmike1, for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction or so we were taught..... I ran tests and seems to hold true. Course I also got to play with mercury in school too, I don't think they let you do that anymore...... There 's a reason "cause and effect" are taught at the same time...they both mean something and one is the reslt of the other......or at least I thought it was.....Guess the bottom line would be.........if you indeed don't care...which you obviously do, judging by you posts, then stop posting to something you care nothing about. Honestly, I never saw anything by the Union Rep that stated "Hitting"...... Simply put, if you were being choked ,you'd try and get out the situation too,anyone would.... If you say "no" to this......then you are simply fooling yourself.
Best,
Will

 

[GoofyFan1]

You keep looking at the cause. Quite frankly I don't care about the cause, that doesn't effect whether or not the CM was right. It's the effect I care about. And despite what was happening beforehand, the union is saying that the CM accidentally hit the kid. That's what the union said. If you want to keep trying to go around what they said, fine. But from what I've seen, they say the 'hit' was an accident.

Last time I checked you couldn't have an effect without a cause. Please explain how this can happen. Even temporary insanity is a cause to an effect.

 

[Pongo]

You keep looking at the cause. Quite frankly I don't care about the cause, that doesn't effect whether or not the CM was right. It's the effect I care about. And despite what was happening beforehand, the union is saying that the CM accidentally hit the kid. That's what the union said. If you want to keep trying to go around what they said, fine. But from what I've seen, they say the 'hit' was an accident.

But without a cause, there is no effect.

 

[Pongo]

Last time I checked you couldn't have an effect without a cause. Please explain how this can happen. Even temporary insanity is a cause to an effect.

Great minds think alike! :lol:

 

[askmike1]

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you Askmike1, for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction or so we were taught....... Simply put, if you were being choked ,you'd try and get out the situation too,anyone would.... If you say "no" to this......then you are simply fooling yourself.

Again though, regardless of what the kid may or may not have done, the Union is saying that the actual hit itself was caused by bad vision in the costume (Which in my book means 'accidental'). They aren't saying he hit him to get him off (which would be 'self-defense'). How he got into that situation is an entirely different story, one that I am not talking about at the moment.

Last time I checked you couldn't have an effect without a cause. Please explain how this can happen. Even temporary insanity is a cause to an effect.

Again, I don't care about the cause. Yes, physically that effects the situation. But whether or not the Cast Member was right in what he did depends on what happened after the cause....or as I've been saying.... whether the hit was accidental or on purpose.

 

[Pongo]

Again, I don't care about the cause. Yes, physically that effects the situation. But whether or not the Cast Member was right in what he did depends on what happened after the cause....or as I've been saying.... whether the hit was accidental or on purpose.

And it was clearly accidental. Meaning the CM wasn't right OR wrong. What happened was an accident.

 

[mrtoad]

Again though, regardless of what the kid may or may not have done, the Union is saying that the actual hit itself was caused by bad vision in the costume (Which in my book means 'accidental'). They aren't saying he hit him to get him off (which would be 'self-defense'). How he got into that situation is an entirely different story, one that I am not talking about at the moment.

Again, I don't care about the cause. Yes, physically that effects the situation. But whether or not the Cast Member was right in what he did depends on what happened after the cause....or as I've been saying.... whether the hit was accidental or on purpose.

Give it up, you're either related to him or your that sleezy lawyer. Come on tell us, it can be our little secret...

 

[Iakona]

Being in a fight is a little different then this. You will be hard pressed to find a bully (or anyone who starts a fight) with a lot of courtesy and good manners. Disney CMs on the other hand are known for those qualities. And just because someone should do something doesn't mean they will (and vice versa).


Of course. If Disney does allow him to talk to the family though, he should.

True, you would also find a bully, that when someone sticks up for themselves and kicks their rear, claim the other kid started it. Pulling on a CMs costume and choking them is equivalent. When you CAN'T fight back and if you could you have severely limited vision and a huge disadvantage because of the costume then the person pulling this crap is a BULLY. The CM showed good restraint and from the actions there was no intent on the CM to throw a punch. How do I know? I see many punches every week while sparring and taking karate. My son at 5 years old in Karate threw better punches than what they are claiming is a punch.

The act of protecting yourself (self defense), be it attacking (your example of a punch for a punch) or physically removing (ie knocking the offending arm away without an aggressive counter attack) is self defense. I can easily utilize self defense and never throw a punch.

Tigger was clearly being being messed with. The families claim that he wanted to leave is convenient but transparent and unbelievable in light of the video where Tigger is patiently posing with the family until the kid jumps in and Tigger's head begins to move back wards while the kids arm muscles are flexing.

Why should he apologize to the kid? The CM feels he was being assaulted (yes, what this kid was doing , IMHO, was assault) and should be held accountable. His father should have went with his first instinct thinking the son was doing something wrong, I'm sure a lifetime of raising this kid honed those instincts, too bad dad is choosing a path that will be further detrimental to his son.

My opinion is that Disney should fight this nuisance all the way. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Sheriff's department reviewed the tape and decided the kid was assaulting Tigger and charge the teenager instead?

 

[GoofyFan1]

Again though, regardless of what the kid may or may not have done, the Union is saying that the actual hit itself was caused by bad vision in the costume (Which in my book means 'accidental'). They aren't saying he hit him to get him off (which would be 'self-defense'). How he got into that situation is an entirely different story, one that I am not talking about at the moment.

Again, I don't care about the cause. Yes, physically that effects the situation. But whether or not the Cast Member was right in what he did depends on what happened after the cause....or as I've been saying.... whether the hit was accidental or on purpose.

In this case then, there would be no case without the actions of the kid (cause). There would have been a lovely family picture and nothing for us to discuss.