GoofGoof
Premium Member
True, even when the tickets expire they don't become worthless they can traded in towards a new ticket. What they will lose is the ability to buy a ticket this year and sell it next year for next year's full price.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Ticket Price Increase starts this Sunday!
- Thread starter Rteetz
- Start date
I'm glad this is being discussed. The dollars and cents is one thing, but the leverage a ticket had is another. It is amazing how fast they went from no expiration date on any ticket, to expiration being an add on that you paid for, to the add on not existing but the clock doesn't start counting on your ticket until it is used, to adding essentially a second clock where your whole ticket has to be upgraded to the new prices if it isn't used within some preset time period (I'm guessing it will typically be a year). I bought 7 day park hoppers this morning for my family (4 of us) from Undercover Tourist. 1800 bucks and we still have active APs. But, much cheaper than the new prices and the tickets have the ability to be used whenever. My current plan is to take our last trip with the APs...Use the 7 day hoppers after SW opens, rent a lot of my DVC points and maybe eventually sell since the current aggressive pricing on everything model means that I can sell my moldy oldy points at a bit of a profit if I so desire.
I'm old enough and have been going to Disney for long enough that I remember the junior pricing and the discount for children actually being significant. I really think the goal is to have upper middle class and rich people of all nationalities who don't know the value of a buck become the main visitors. Fine with me. I can easily afford Disney, but I think they've jumped the shark. My wife and I split expenditures and vacations are my bailiwick. She's such a deal finder that if she paid close attention, she may have ended Disney vacations back when the tip was no longer included in the dining plan. So, Disney got an extra decade of vacations out of us thanks to this sucker.
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
Quoting your post for emphasis because cutting back on days in the manner you have described is probably the norm, and (partially but largely) driven by Disney's MYW pricing structure.
2015 7-day ticket: $335
2016 6-day ticket: $378.08
2017 4-day ticket: $394.05
Disney is still capturing more of your (general) money than 2 years ago for fewer days (and arguably no change in the experience other than compressing it into a shorter time period).
So, if a consumer maintains their budget, that 2015 7-day $335 ticket is now a 3-day $329.09 ticket.
Last edited:
21stamps
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand is the $20 off for advance purchase. How many people buy multi day (not single day) tickets the day of arrival?
Last edited:
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
If you purchase in advance and get the $20 off, then the 2017 4-day is $374.05, which may still seem reasonable to most people since it still is <$400. What I suspect is happening is that the majority of guests are doing WDW-UO vacations...so it is partly driven by consumer preferences, and partly because of the pricing structure. Remember I said awhile ago in another thread that $75 seems to be an inflection point in their avg/day pricing....in 2015 it fell at the 4-day mark, in 2016 at the 5-day mark, and now in 2017 is at the 6-day mark....so Disney is both responding to and encouraging shorter stays. But, when you take into account the $20 discount, the closest avg/day price to $75 is still at 5-days ($79.07/day) like last year.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Growing up, my parents never used to buy tickets in advance and would just buy at the Concierge desk when they got to the hotel. Of course with FP+, that's changed and I would think it would tend to encourage pre-buying tickets.
Doing a quick analysis... the price differential between a DVC/FL resident Gold pass (good for most of the year except the holiday season and Easter/spring break) and a 7 day park hopper purchased in advance has never been lower in the 2010s, it's only $74. And a Gold renewal is $10 cheaper than a 7 day PH!
If ticket prices continue to rise an average of $20-22 a year and AP only about $12, then pretty soon an AP will be the better bargain! Not to mention all the discounts that come with it... if they keep that up.
Of course they are still getting you if you have younger kids since you lose that discount with an AP... but I have to think that this is their strategy to try to entice the "come every year for 1 week" crowd into buying DVC. If you don't you'll miss out on the chance to buy an AP for less than the 7 day ticket. As long as you don't come for the holidays or spring break of course.
I think these are the people they want to incentivise to come... and also the short stay price sensitive once in a lifetime customer. My guess is that they have the highest spending per guest rates.
If ticket prices continue to rise an average of $20-22 a year and AP only about $12, then pretty soon an AP will be the better bargain! Not to mention all the discounts that come with it... if they keep that up.
Of course they are still getting you if you have younger kids since you lose that discount with an AP... but I have to think that this is their strategy to try to entice the "come every year for 1 week" crowd into buying DVC. If you don't you'll miss out on the chance to buy an AP for less than the 7 day ticket. As long as you don't come for the holidays or spring break of course.
I think these are the people they want to incentivise to come... and also the short stay price sensitive once in a lifetime customer. My guess is that they have the highest spending per guest rates.
flynnibus
Premium Member
You're talking about people who have already paid 10k+ to Disney and are locked in... someone is going to be buying a park ticket or AP regardless.
Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
Most people buying multi day will do in advance but I see this as Disney trying to get people to buy direct rather than using Undercover Tourist or other resellers.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
There's always going to be increases, but this time, it was so much a shrug off, but many are now saying "Disney raising their prices ... again" or you can see the anchor sort of sigh or even roll their eyes that once again Disney is increasing prices. They can get away with it, and will continue to get away with it. I do think there's a very very very slow pushback for rising costs at Disney but it's not there yet. And TBH I think so many are afraid to do anything remotely negative against Disney. There's no reason upcharges, cuts, rising prices aren't being discussed in the media and more notice isn't being taken at how outrageous a vacation is becoming.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Not necessarily some DVC people are simply using Disney hotels for a base and enjoying the greater Orlando area I suspect this is one of the reasons for the resort/parking fee - which Disney WILL try to saddle DVC members with
Remember it's pretty easy for Disney to determine how many DVC members are staying on property who DO NOT have admission media
flynnibus
Premium Member
How is Disney going to reference who doesn't have admission media when DVC members aren't buying room+ticket packages? How is Disney going to map up room reservations to AP usage accurately?
DVC are price sensitive customers to Disney because they are 'constant' customers so they are full and well aware of the yearly shift in pricing.
BrianV
Well-Known Member
But why do they want short stays? Do you suppose their data has shown greater daily spending on shorter stays? Historically a longer stay resulted in lower per day ticket prices. When you are locked in you have to buy your food and such from them too. but maybe you'd rather have two 4 day stays by two different families than one 8 day stay.
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
Yes - the last part, serving 2 instead of 1 (when the product isn't utilized by the 1 person, it is available to the 2nd in the same time period). They are increasing the volume of ticket sales, and still capturing the same amount of revenue over 3-4 days instead of 7.
Per guest spending is up due to the increasing food and bev prices, too, so they're not losing out there.
ETA: They are using the ticket price mechanism to restrict the quantity of product available.
I think they want to reward short stays to get many more price-sensitive, but ultimately high margin customers, that may have higher spending per guest due to buying more merch as they may not be coming back often(and are also less savvy so less likely to "utilize resources" such as rides, attractions, shows, and discounts/loopholes).
What perplexed me for a while is why are they punishing loyal repeat guests that come every year for longer stays by raising those ticket prices?
Then it dawned on me by looking at the AP-ticket differentials: they want you to buy annual passes instead. Especially if you are DVC. They still make "economic rent" by enticing a DVC family to buy an AP to get a lower annual renewal price going forward than a 7 day parkhopper because these families likely have kids that otherwise would have been paying a lower ticket price. Plus, the discounts, Memory maker, free parking, other AP perks, etc really only apply to the first AP bought, so you can't really factor that in as a reason to buy the more (initially) expensively priced additional AP. That's more money in their pocket up front as well.
Furthermore, if annual ticket increases continue in this way (i.e. annual increase in 5,6,7 day PH pass >> annual increase in AP prices), pretty soon the AP is going to look like a good deal, ESPECIALLY if you are DVC. So, to the family who maybe likes to stay 5-7 days a year, possibly on property, maybe is already on the fence about DVC but not sure if it's worth the initial investment, this might be another incentive to take the plunge and buy DVC. And since all those nice DVC perks only apply now if you buy direct from Disney, it makes you more willing to swallow the $180 or whatever it is now per point prices they command. And you know that nothing is more high margin for WDW than DVC, that's why Spirit likes to call WDW the Timeshare Kingdom of the World.
Another benefit to them is it shifts people away from the busiest seasons as well, so maybe new DVCers will think twice about coming at Christmas or Easter.
I mean, I get it, they are greedy too, but at some point they have to realize that by turning off the more loyal repeat customer by pricing them out is a bad growth strategy, as those families' kids will not have the same attachment to the brand and WDW that I suspect most of us here have. Then where will their future pixie dusters come from?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The magic bands tell them
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Heh heh...well Disney finally did it.
Finally figured out that there are a lot of people like me who used to buy multi-day non-expiring tickets over the years and hold on to them to beat the price jumps.
Finally made the current tickets sold from this point on automatically expire after a certain point.
I knew it was coming, just didn't expect it at this time....but in hindsight with the upcoming major projects in the pipeline, it should not surprise me.
Ahhh..the good ok' days, when Disney used to advertise that your ticket 'does not expire until YOU do'.
I used to buy 10-day Park Hoppers in the early 2000s and spread them out across various visits up until 2013.
Saved quite a bit of money doing that, exspecially the last couple of years I did it.
Cannot do that anymore.....thanks, Mickey.
If and when I ever go back to the Florida Parks, I will use a 4-day I still have from 2012.
The 1983 3-Day WorldPassports I still have are always a option, too.....that is, unless Disney decides to outdate and automatically expire ALL ticket media from the past.
Don't think they would'nt consider it....nothing surprises me now with how the Florida Parks are run.
Thus why I spend my time elsewhere now ( Disneyland, in happy Southern California! ).
The big news with the recent price hike is not the increases in admission....but the fact that all new ticket media now expires like Disneyland's has for many years.
That , to me at least, is a big deal and a major change.
I'm sure some folks here have already realized that by now....but it is worth mentioning again.
It makes the valid old multi-days people may still have all the more valuable.
From this point on, new tickets cannot be 'stockpiled' for future visits.
Glad I still have a couple left over....for whenever I decide to come back to Orlando.
-
Finally figured out that there are a lot of people like me who used to buy multi-day non-expiring tickets over the years and hold on to them to beat the price jumps.
Finally made the current tickets sold from this point on automatically expire after a certain point.
I knew it was coming, just didn't expect it at this time....but in hindsight with the upcoming major projects in the pipeline, it should not surprise me.
Ahhh..the good ok' days, when Disney used to advertise that your ticket 'does not expire until YOU do'.
I used to buy 10-day Park Hoppers in the early 2000s and spread them out across various visits up until 2013.
Saved quite a bit of money doing that, exspecially the last couple of years I did it.
Cannot do that anymore.....thanks, Mickey.
If and when I ever go back to the Florida Parks, I will use a 4-day I still have from 2012.
The 1983 3-Day WorldPassports I still have are always a option, too.....that is, unless Disney decides to outdate and automatically expire ALL ticket media from the past.
Don't think they would'nt consider it....nothing surprises me now with how the Florida Parks are run.
Thus why I spend my time elsewhere now ( Disneyland, in happy Southern California! ).
The big news with the recent price hike is not the increases in admission....but the fact that all new ticket media now expires like Disneyland's has for many years.
That , to me at least, is a big deal and a major change.
I'm sure some folks here have already realized that by now....but it is worth mentioning again.
It makes the valid old multi-days people may still have all the more valuable.
From this point on, new tickets cannot be 'stockpiled' for future visits.
Glad I still have a couple left over....for whenever I decide to come back to Orlando.
-
Here's an example of Disney's pricing schemes turning people off from WDW.
Our neighbors usually do a week at WDW in mid-June each year. Their last WDW week was in June 2015. When they went to plan a mid-June trip for 2016, the price was $1000 more than in 2015 (it could have been $1200, I can't remember the exact number). They decided to spend their week at a Universal hotel, did several days there, plus a day at Sea World and another at Busch Gardens. And they still spent less than they would have for the week at WDW.
Our kids would rather go to Universal or DL now, given the choice, because they've been to WDW more than enough that they know that there isn't anything new there. They won't say no to going if we go, of course, but it's honestly been mostly the same to them since we bought our DVC interest in 2005. And the number of visits for us is absolutely going to decrease after 2018, when my flight benefits from my former employer expire and we no longer have a free/cheap way to fly to MCO. Even using our DVC points for our accommodations, it's still going to be quite expensive to visit WDW, between airfare and tickets for 6 people, plus the exorbitant food prices now firmly in place.
You can count on one hand the number of new attractions that have been built since Iger took over as CEO - Ariel, SDMT. Throw in a few re-skins/re-themes and 2.0's if you'd like, but overall that is absolutely indefensible (not that many here won't try). There is nothing that TWDC/TDO has done with WDW in the past 10 years that has justified the rate of ticket price increases.
Our neighbors usually do a week at WDW in mid-June each year. Their last WDW week was in June 2015. When they went to plan a mid-June trip for 2016, the price was $1000 more than in 2015 (it could have been $1200, I can't remember the exact number). They decided to spend their week at a Universal hotel, did several days there, plus a day at Sea World and another at Busch Gardens. And they still spent less than they would have for the week at WDW.
Our kids would rather go to Universal or DL now, given the choice, because they've been to WDW more than enough that they know that there isn't anything new there. They won't say no to going if we go, of course, but it's honestly been mostly the same to them since we bought our DVC interest in 2005. And the number of visits for us is absolutely going to decrease after 2018, when my flight benefits from my former employer expire and we no longer have a free/cheap way to fly to MCO. Even using our DVC points for our accommodations, it's still going to be quite expensive to visit WDW, between airfare and tickets for 6 people, plus the exorbitant food prices now firmly in place.
You can count on one hand the number of new attractions that have been built since Iger took over as CEO - Ariel, SDMT. Throw in a few re-skins/re-themes and 2.0's if you'd like, but overall that is absolutely indefensible (not that many here won't try). There is nothing that TWDC/TDO has done with WDW in the past 10 years that has justified the rate of ticket price increases.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I'm not really convinced one way or another what they want for AP vs multi-day here. Magic 8ball tells me it's cloudy.
AP discounts/bundles/etc I look to be just as year-to-year as pricing, so I don't count on any of that in the future. It's also something they can manipulate with exemptions very easily.
This is what we've been saying for a long time.. but 'Disney is a business' crowd that thinks profits now is the only thing that matters don't comprehend. Success is the long run.. not profits for 5-10 years.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
On the other hand the imminent collapse of the Disney empire has been preached ever since at least I joined the site. That's at least 13 years. There's some folks opinion's you can look up with some digging that goes back to the late 90s with that opinion.
So on one hand, yeah it sucks they are raising prices and there is only so much the market can bear, but on the other...there's been almost a literal generation of internet posting claiming that doom is right around the corner.
Maybe doom is lurking is this time,.but just because someone says it's going to rain everyday and then it finally does...that doesn't make them a weatherman.
If 10, or 15, or 20 years isn't long term, what is?
I'll hang up and let you answer, because I don't care enough to pick a side. Just an observation from someone who's been around here for a long time.