Ticket Price Increase - Feb 2014

[lebeau]

Thank you lebeau, that is really kind of you!

I have very mixed feelings. The parks aren't as well developed as they should be, and I always feel that Hollywood Studios in particular feels a little tired, but as I write so too Animal Kingdom and Epcot.
We were really gutted by Test Track's 'uplift' so I do accept your point. Disney have lost sight, but if they are going to pull off some big investments, it is going to probably hurt us all even more!

Everyone is hyped up about the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, and I guess it will be great, but it just seems a small step in comparison to Universal's Diagon Alley from a guests point of view.
As mentioned, very mixed up about it, and we won't know if Disney are doing the right thing for a few more years!

I see what you are saying. But... (there is always a but) you're operating under the assumption that the price hikes are related to improvements. If that were the case, the Iger era would have seen more park improvement than ever before. Instead, the opposite is true.

I don't need to wait a few more years to know whether or not Disney is going in the right direction. They have announced their intentions for the next several years. And they look pretty similar to the last several years. Stagnation at the parks while cutting costs and raising prices.

My feelings are mixed. But only because I love Disney World and want to keep on loving it. But I know things are getting worse.

 

[kap91]

You are completely free to have your opinion.

For a family that only can afford four $59.99 Season Passes at Six Flags, it's the best they can do.

For a family that can afford a $10,000 vacation at WDW, even better.

Right now, WDW's problem is that there are a lot of families that cannot afford to pay $700/night for a hotel room at the Grand Floridian. Heck, they cannot afford to pay $150/night at a WDW "Value" Resort. WDW hotel occupancy rates have been declining for years.

As Disney increases prices at rates faster than consumers' abilities to pay them, Disney is going to have an increasingly difficult time filling hotel rooms and, eventually theme parks.

Perhaps when a one-day ticket at WDW is $1000 you might feel differently.

Today at $99, many families are already feeling differently.

It's not that Disney's prices (specifically hotel and short-term tickets) aren't expensive- they are. And I do wish they were lower. My post above is mainly doing the apples to apples comparison as requested. Six flags does not provide anywhere near the same experience or level of quality Disney does. And it would be great if a one day ticket to Disney cost $50 and a one day ticket to Six Flags cost $20 or $15. I don't see this happening. I'm not even sure if its economically feasible. When you take into account all that you get staying at a Disney hotel, or going to a Disney park - its worth the price they charge (with the exception of a few of the deluxe hotels - the prices can get completely ridiculous there. However then again, they wouldn't charge those rates if people weren't paying them). If a Days Inn charges $50-$90 a night and provides the bare minimum in service then doesn't it makes sense that a Disney resort - even the value resort (which provide nicer rooms, much higher level of service, ambience, crazy pools, restaurants, room service, bus service to the parks, advanced access to dining reservations, etc) would cost at least $50 more?

(And just to clarify my own spending at Disney - I don't usually stay at the fancy hotels - often I don't stay at hotels at all, and do shell out the money for an annual pass. It's expensive yes, but something I feel I get a lot of use out of. Other people spend over $500 a year going to concerts - I spend it on Disney)

Perhaps the affordability problem has less to do with whether or not the parks are priced competitively or are worth the price they charge and more to do with why the average family finds itself cash-strapped. But its difficult to get into that issue without bringing up politics.

 

[lebeau]

Apples to Apples: Went to a six Flags for the first time in my life this past fall. I was largely horrified. Plenty of good large coasters (Very, very good coasters) surround by advertisements upon advertisements for all sorts of completely random products painted on every surface you could see. 1 ride that at all resembled a dark ride which while cute is substandard even when compared to Dollywood or Knotts. 2+ hour waits for everything (this with a parking lot that barely had any cars in it), an operations team that clearly didn't care about said lines and only ran the bare minimum amount of trains on those coasters. Absolutely terrible food selections (You're choice of disgusting looking pizza, burgers, chicken tenders, or a few other chain restaurant options) at prices higher than that of Disney or Universal - constant announcements over the PA of additional things I could buy, no souvenirs worth buying - there was a freaking store in the middle of the park that was a Dollar General in everything but name (didn't even have a postcard I could buy). Oh and parking was $20 - and seemingly no one actually operates it - the money going purely to the parks' bottom line. The only reason I would go back is if I needed my adrenaline fix because the coasters are good. How they could even begin to consider themselves to provide more than half the value than Disney, Universal or even SeaWorld parks completely boggles my mind. The park is closed nearly half the year. And with the amount of 3rd party advertising in the park - I can't see why they even need to charge an admission fee at all.

Doing an apples to apples comparison makes the rates charged by the Orlando parks seem to be an absolute steal rather than just comparable with similar entertainment.

So you're saying Disney World and Six Flags are an apples to apples comparisson? Sadly, I agree.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

So you're saying Disney World and Six Flags are an apples to apples comparisson? Sadly, I agree.

I see what you did there.

 

[lebeau]

It's not that Disney's prices (specifically hotel and short-term tickets) aren't expensive- they are. And I do wish they were lower. My post above is mainly doing the apples to apples comparison as requested. Six flags does not provide anywhere near the same experience or level of quality Disney does. And it would be great if a one day ticket to Disney cost $50 and a one day ticket to Six Flags cost $20 or $15. I don't see this happening. When you take into account all that you get staying at a Disney hotel, or going to a Disney park - its worth the price they charge (with the exception of a few of the deluxe hotels - the prices can get completely ridiculous there. However then again, they wouldn't charge those rates if people weren't paying them). If a Days Inn charges $50-$90 a night and provides the bare minimum in service then doesn't it makes sense that a Disney resort - even the value resort (which provide nicer rooms, much higher level of service, ambience, crazy pools, restaurants, room service, bus service to the parks, advanced access to dining reservations, etc) would cost at least $50 more?

(And just to clarify my own spending at Disney - I don't usually stay at the fancy hotels - often I don't stay at hotels at all, and do shell out the money for an annual pass. It's expensive yes, but something I feel I get a lot of use out of. Other people spend over $500 a year going to concerts - I spend it on Disney)

Perhaps the affordability problem has less to do with whether or not the parks are priced competitively or are worth the price they charge and more to do with why the average family finds itself cash-strapped. But its difficult to get into that issue without bringing up politics.

A regional park and a vacation destination/resort are not the same thing. This is apples to grapefruit. Regional parks rely heavily on locals who have season passes. Relatively few people are buying single day admissions.

I actually think the tickets are very reasonably priced if you are spending a lot of time at the parks. But for most people, that means incurring huge vacation expenses like hotel rooms. Which is where Disney's bread is buttered.

 

[kap91]

So you're saying Disney World and Six Flags are an apples to apples comparisson? Sadly, I agree.

Yes. Six flags is a poisonous, rotten apple and Disney would be a fresh picked organic one possibly coated in carmel and sprinkles with marshmallow mickey ears.

 

[kap91]

A regional park and a vacation destination/resort are not the same thing. This is apples to grapefruit. Regional parks live rely heavily on locals who have season passes. Relatively few people are buying single day admissions.

I actually think the tickets are very reasonably priced if you are spending a lot of time at the parks. But for most people, that means incurring huge vacation expenses like hotel rooms. Which is where Disney's bread is buttered.

Someone above specifically said it was impossible to compare WDW to concerts, broadway shows, museums, etc. It should be compared to other amusement parks like Six Flags. I compare to six flags and now someone tells me I can't compare it to six flags. I feel like I'm going to lose this battle no matter what.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Someone above specifically said it was impossible to compare WDW to concerts, broadway shows, museums, etc. It should be compared to other amusement parks like Six Flags. I compare to six flags and now someone tells me I can't compare it to six flags. I feel like I'm going to lose this battle no matter what.

You are!!! Facts do not adjust a mind that is made up. I believe that your post was miss-read anyway or the responses were loaded with sarcasm. I think it is OK to compare it to any entertainment venue, be it baseball, broadway, cruising or golf. Just the fact that if you spend 12 hours in MK and it cost you $100.00 that's $8.35 an hour. When you think about what you get for that... seems like it's expensive but, certainly not overpriced.

Spoiler

Rides, Attractions, Live shows, Fireworks, Parades, Meet and Greets!

It is worth whatever people will pay.

Any entertainment venue gets extremely expensive when you figure it as a group. Individually, it's OK, but with a large family, it or any of the aforementioned can be a deal breaker.

 

[lebeau]

Yes. Six flags is a poisonous, rotten apple and Disney would be a fresh picked organic one possibly coated in carmel and sprinkles with marshmallow mickey ears.

Sold for $10 and not included on the over-priced Dining Plan.

Kidding aside, Six Flags and regional parks are great for what they are. The fact that we are even talking about Six Flags and Disney World in the same sentence is a sign that Disney World has fallen short of its former standards.

It's like comparing an NFL team to a decent high school football team. The NFL team shouldn't be patting themselves on the back when they come up winners. They should be worried that anyone thinks the comparisson should be made at all.

 

[lebeau]

Someone above specifically said it was impossible to compare WDW to concerts, broadway shows, museums, etc. It should be compared to other amusement parks like Six Flags. I compare to six flags and now someone tells me I can't compare it to six flags. I feel like I'm going to lose this battle no matter what.

There are very few true equals to Disney World. Even Universal isn't really apples to apples. But it's the closest thing which is why everyone constantly compares them.

 

[kap91]

The fact that we are even talking about Six Flags and Disney World in the same sentence is a sign that Disney World has fallen short of its former standards.

There are very few true equals to Disney World. Even Universal isn't really apples to apples. But it's the closest thing which is why everyone constantly compares them.

Btw, Six Flags would sell you the rotten apple for $11 and stick an ad for Wonderbread on it.

If you want to compare theme park prices you gotta compare it to something. You can't compare WDW to empty air. even if there is nothing directly like it. Particularly a place that promotes itself (at least price wise) as a similar experience is a good way to see exactly what the difference is.

And WDW and Disneyland have both been talked about in the same sentence with generic amusement parks since before they were built: Walt himself included.

 

[lebeau]

My conclusion is that yes, the Magic Kingdom ticket is expensive, but really the problem is that everything is expensive. I would pay the extra $20 to go to MK over 6 flags, and as much as I love Wicked the worst seats for a 2-2.5 hour production are only about $2 cheaper than a 1 day ticket in MK.

A quick Google search got me $15 off general admission at Six Flags. I bet you can save more if you try.

Kings Island is my local amusement park. I can get a season pass for April-Oct for $80. Covers parking, admission to special events, the water park, all kind of good stuff. Kings Island isn't anything like Disney World. They aren't in remotely the same class. But they provide a much bigger bang for the ol' entertainment dollar than Disney World does.

 

[CJR]

seems like it's expensive but, certainly not overpriced.

Walt Disney World? It's been overpriced for a very long time. People pay for overpriced things all the time, like cable or concert tickets. Just because people fork over the cash doesn't mean that it's not overpriced.

Is a trip to Walt Disney World a good value? It depends what you value. If you consider spending 12 hours at a theme park for $100 a good value, then it is. However, if seeing Mickey isn't that high of a priority and you can take much more fun and relaxing vacations elsewhere for a better price, then perhaps it's not.

For more and more people, they are starting to realize they can get more at other places for the cost. Disney won't care either as long as the international crowd continues to grow. Still, Disney is taking a short term gain while creating a long-term problem.

 

[lebeau]

Btw, Six Flags would sell you the rotten apple for $11 and stick an ad for Wonderbread on it.

If you want to compare theme park prices you gotta compare it to something. You can't compare WDW to empty air. even if there is nothing directly like it. Particularly a place that promotes itself (at least price wise) as a similar experience is a good way to see exactly what the difference is.

And WDW and Disneyland have both been talked about in the same sentence with generic amusement parks since before they were built: Walt himself included.

I have never been to a Six Flags so I can't comment on them specifically. I'm not a huge fan of unthemed coasters, so the appeal of Six Flags is limited to me. How I wish Disney or Universal had the DC Comics lisence. My 4-year-old loves Wonder Woman and I would like to take her to a meet and greet. But we're not going to a coaster park just for that.

Since I have never been, I'm going to drop Six Flags from the conversation and speak about regional amusement parks in general. As I outlined in a previous post, the ticket price at a regional park is very different from the price of admission at Disney World. Regional parks have very elastic prices. Discounts and promotions are very common. Guests rarely pay the standard price to get in. At Disney, discounts on admission are rare.

Also, usage between the two is very different. Most visitors are most regional parks are locals. There are a higher percentage of season pass holders at a regional park than at Disney World. The price per day on a season pass can be less than a $1. Guests at regional parks are probably frequent users of the product. You don't get a high percentage of once-in-a-lifetime guests at these places. Whereas, a lot of people go to Disney World one day in a lifetime.

As a result, the one-day admission price at Disney World (which a relatively high percentage of the population pays) is relevant. The undiscounted one-day admission price at a regional amusement park (which a relatively low percentage of the population pays) is less relevant.

Not to mention the differences in the product.

 

[BrittanyRose428]

The price of any consumer good or service is highly complicated affair based on many factors.

I don't say it's OK to pay $1000 for my tie because I paid $1000 for my suit, yet both are items I wear.

Comparing a theme park with a Broadway play or a sporting event is dubious at best, completely misleading at worse.

Fenway Park, for example, sells out nearly all of its games. Over the course of a year, the Magic Kingdom runs at less than half of its theoretical capacity.

WDW's hotels average 5,700 empty rooms per night. Does that mean Disney is going to lower its prices?

WDW is an amusement park and should be compared with other amusement parks.

Oh and, by the way, a Six Flags New England Season Pass is $69.99 if bought individually, $59,99 if bought in quantities of 4 or more. That includes admission to their water park, Hurricane Harbor.

A WDW Premium Annual Pass is $754.

Please, compare apples-to-apples.

I'm not comparing them in saying that they are the same thing, obviously they are not. What I'm getting at is that I've been to almost all of the places I've listed at one point or another (though not the skydiving, not if you paid me to!) and if you look at it in terms of what I, as an individual spent, I feel as though a one day MK ticket for $99 is about right. It is expensive, but so is everything else I mentioned. I don't mean to say that WDW and Six Flags should be compared because they're both apples, because they're not, what I mean is that if Six Flags, which has much less to offer than WDW can charge $59.99 for one day, it is not absolutely crazy that WDW would be charging $30 more. There is essentially, in my opinion, $30 worth more of things to do, thematic elements, entertainment, etc, in WDW than there is in Six Flags. & I know the Season Pass is cheaper, I compared 1 day ticket prices for everything because the big discussion is about the 1 day 1 park ticket.

Apples to Apples: Went to a six Flags for the first time in my life this past fall. I was largely horrified. Plenty of good large coasters (Very, very good coasters) surround by advertisements upon advertisements for all sorts of completely random products painted on every surface you could see. 1 ride that at all resembled a dark ride which while cute is substandard even when compared to Dollywood or Knotts. 2+ hour waits for everything (this with a parking lot that barely had any cars in it), an operations team that clearly didn't care about said lines and only ran the bare minimum amount of trains on those coasters. Absolutely terrible food selections (You're choice of disgusting looking pizza, burgers, chicken tenders, or a few other chain restaurant options) at prices higher than that of Disney or Universal - constant announcements over the PA of additional things I could buy, no souvenirs worth buying - there was a freaking store in the middle of the park that was a Dollar General in everything but name (didn't even have a postcard I could buy). Oh and parking was $20 - and seemingly no one actually operates it - the money going purely to the parks' bottom line. The only reason I would go back is if I needed my adrenaline fix because the coasters are good. How they could even begin to consider themselves to provide more than half the value than Disney, Universal or even SeaWorld parks completely boggles my mind. The park is closed nearly half the year. And with the amount of 3rd party advertising in the park - I can't see why they even need to charge an admission fee at all.

Doing an apples to apples comparison makes the rates charged by the Orlando parks seem to be an absolute steal rather than just comparable with similar entertainment.

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at with that comparison. Even if Six Flags ticket comes with the waterpark/parking/whatever else, WDW has better offerings, and is therefore justified at being $30 more. I agree with @kap91 in thinking that if they can charge more than half of what WDW charges, then the increased price at WDW is still a bargain, (albeit I'm still holding to my belief that most things on my list are overpriced, I just don't think WDW charging that much is more overpriced than any other entertainment offering.)

 

[kap91]

As a result, the one-day admission price at Disney World (which a relatively high percentage of the population pays) is relevant. The undiscounted one-day admission price at a regional amusement park (which a relatively low percentage of the population pays) is less relevant.

Not to mention the differences in the product.

But the average guest coming to WDW is certainly not paying the 1-Day price either. I believe the average guest's vacation is somewhere between 5-7 Days, at which point you get nearly or over a 50% discount on that ticket price. Many are also coming on some sort of package in which they end up getting free meals or cheaper hotel stay. Yes this still all computes to well over the $1 a day price you'd get with a season pass to a regional park, but as you say - completely different product and visitor type. One's a vacation one's a day trip.

You seem to want to compare Disney strictly as a vacation destination to other vacation destinations - which you admit are few and far between. Any vacation that takes you to a place where you have to spend money for food and accommodations is by its nature going to cost more than a regional park you go to for a day. So then the question becomes what other vacation providing a similar experience and length can you go on and what would be the price?

A cruise could potentially be a better deal - but that would largely be based on what time of year you were free to travel and what cruise line you choose to travel on. You can easily find a 7 day cruise that would bankrupt a family of four.

I'll admit I'm not the best authority on this particular question, considering I haven't been on a vacation of any real length in a quite a few years -only having traveled to DL for a few days here and there. (And only once stayed at their resorts on another person's dime. You think WDW Resorts are overpriced. : - ))Where else could you go, what could you do for 5-7 days and after adding up the price of hotel, food, and the events and not pay a similar price? I guess you could go camping in the mountains but that doesn't strike me as quite the same kind of experience.

Again just to clarify my position -since I think its gotten a bid muddled up: Disney is expensive, Most forms of quality entertainment are expensive, it should cost less - a lot less,the average worker should be paid a lot more than they are, there's not a chance in hell of either of those things happening very soon, all in all the value you get at Disney still awesome, even if they would get a heck of a lot of good will by lowering their (lodging and ticket) prices.

EDIT: One more clarification - If (I guess when) Disney does decide to break the $100 price point then it starts to get into a dangerous zone. Again - not that its not strictly speaking worth it - but the public's psychological reaction becomes much more a player there, and it does start to approach a different price range/market entirely.

 

[willtravel]

Disney does not report WDW attendance. They do report domestic theme park attendance trends and also sometimes provide more information specific to WDW during the earnings calls.

Having examined their 10-K filings and read the earning transcripts, WDW attendance has been up-and-down 1-to-3% each year for the last 5 years. Some years it is up; some years it is down. Overall, it seems to be at a level comparable to 2009.

What has trended downward is hotel occupancy. Occupancy is down from 89% to 79%.

IMHO, more families are staying offsite in order to be able to afford WDW's higher ticket prices.

Of the 79% occupancy, do you have the % of how much was international tourists?

 

[ParentsOf4]

If you want to compare theme park prices you gotta compare it to something. You can't compare WDW to empty air. even if there is nothing directly like it. Particularly a place that promotes itself (at least price wise) as a similar experience is a good way to see exactly what the difference is.

Many compare WDW to DLR or TDL and find WDW sorely lacking. It wasn’t always so.

Another frequent comparison is WDW and Universal, a bit like comparing Lexus and Acura. But, please, let not turn this into the 187th WDW vs. Universal debate.

In that comparison, most regional amusement parks come off like GM.

However, market forces are complex and the more unlike two things are, the more difficult it becomes to make meaningful comparisons.

One form of entertainment does not equal another. I can see a movie or a play. In both cases, I'm the same passive audience. However, I would not expect the two to be priced comparably. In many respects, I could argue that the movie is "superior". I am, after all, seeing the work of hundreds of millions of dollars presented to me on the screen. Certainly the movie is much less expensive.

If a movie's audience was limited to the same audience size as a play, then I might have to pay thousands of dollars for that movie ticket.

WDW is mass-marketed, with tens of millions of visitors each year. Does that mean it should be compared with a movie? No. It's a different experience.

Well, the theater, sporting events, and museums are all different experiences, each fulfilling their own niches. None neatly fit into the mold of WDW.

Stepping back, WDW is a vacation. After all, no one (locals excluded) simply buys a one-day ticket. There are significant travel, lodging, and food expenses associated with WDW. When I visit my local Six Flags, I'm paying $54.99 for my Season Pass and gas money. When I visit WDW, the costs are tremendous, much more than just the price of admission.

Maybe it's best to compare WDW to other types of vacations?

Returning to the point of this thread, WDW prices have increased a second time in 8 months. They’ve increased at a rate much faster than peoples’ abilities to pay them. They’ve been increasing faster for over 15 years.

How much longer can it go on?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Btw, Six Flags would sell you the rotten apple for $11 and stick an ad for Wonderbread on it.

Disney would sell you a $22 rotten apple and put a DVC ad on it.. Now, maybe magic band ad LOL...

I agree with the tacky ads all around the Six Flag parks... The one thing that kills El Toro for me are the brightly painted ads.. One year I think it was for some sort of chewing gum, another year skittles I believe....

 

[lebeau]

But the average guest coming to WDW is certainly not paying the 1-Day price either. I believe the average guest's vacation is somewhere between 5-7 Days, at which point you get nearly or over a 50% discount on that ticket price. Many are also coming on some sort of package in which they end up getting free meals or cheaper hotel stay. Yes this still all computes to well over the $1 a day price you'd get with a season pass to a regional park, but as you say - completely different product and visitor type. One's a vacation one's a day trip.

I don't have numbers in front of me, but I would wager Disney sells more 1-day tickets than they do 7-day tickets. They may sell more 1-day tickets than they sell 5-7 tickets. I think you'd be shocked by the number of people who spend 1 day at the MK and never go back.

So we agree that the product and usage are completely different? Why are we comparing them again?

You seem to want to compare Disney strictly as a vacation destination to other vacation destinations - which you admit are few and far between. Any vacation that takes you to a place where you have to spend money for food and accommodations is by its nature going to cost more than a regional park you go to for a day. So then the question becomes what other vacation providing a similar experience and length can you go on and what would be the price?

A cruise could potentially be a better deal - but that would largely be based on what time of year you were free to travel and what cruise line you choose to travel on. You can easily find a 7 day cruise that would bankrupt a family of four.

I'll admit I'm not the best authority on this particular question, considering I haven't been on a vacation of any real length in a quite a few years -only having traveled to DL for a few days here and there. (And only once stayed at their resorts on another person's dime. You think WDW Resorts are overpriced. : - ))Where else could you go, what could you do for 5-7 days and after adding up the price of hotel, food, and the events and not pay a similar price? I guess you could go camping in the mountains but that doesn't strike me as quite the same kind of experience.

Again just to clarify my position -since I think its gotten a bid muddled up: Disney is expensive, Most forms of quality entertainment are expensive, it should cost less - a lot less,the average worker should be paid a lot more than they are, there's not a chance in hell of either of those things happening very soon, all in all the value you get at Disney still awesome, even if they would get a heck of a lot of good will by lowering their (lodging and ticket) prices.

EDIT: One more clarification - If (I guess when) Disney does decide to break the $100 price point then it starts to get into a dangerous zone. Again - not that its not strictly speaking worth it - but the public's psychological reaction becomes much more a player there, and it does start to approach a different price range/market entirely.

I actually think comparisons are fairly pointless. For example, I don't value tickets for an NFL game at all. I wouldn't pay half the price. Heck, I wouldn't go for free. Everyone is going to value these different products differently.

The best comparison is to Disney's past. I know what I paid in the past and what I got for the money. I expect the price to go up roughly in line with inflation. Won't complain about that. I would even go so far as to say the tickets were at one point under-priced. So I will give Disney some wiggle room to exceed inflation for a bit.

But for the last several years that have far outstripped inflation. During a time when the economy was down and they were not investing in the parks at the rate they used to. Not to mention they have been cutting costs in very noticeable ways. They cut the A/C in central Florida! Who does that?!?

Disney has always charged a premium price. And they have offered a premium product. I'd say the product is still premium. But a lot less so than it used to be. And others are catching up. While the product is in decline, the cost is going through the roof. Especially if you include hotels and food - the prices of which are rising even faster than admission.

Disney World used to be a deal. Now, it's not. Slowly, it is becoming a rip-off. Eventually, guests will realize this. When they do, Disney will have a heck of a time winning them back. Especially if going to Disney World is no longer the rite of passage it is today. If a generation grows up with fonder memories of Universal, Disney World will lose its only advantage.