TheRealSkull
Well-Known Member
One positive thing I can say is "Down in New Orleans" is a great song to play at the beginning. Really sets the mood.
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News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
TheRealSkull
Well-Known Member
Great episode you did with them. OrangeGrove55 is underrated, people. Go check em' out, they break things down really well and have softened my view on this ride. Gonna give it a chance once I ride it soon!
Also, here's OrangeGrove55's channel:
DisneyFanatic12
Well-Known Member
I haven’t looked at the POVs really, but my guess is so that they can dispatch the logs without checking the restraints? Similar to Dinosaur possibly? Someone else can probably answer definitively, but that was where my mind went when I saw it.
DisneyFanatic12
Well-Known Member
It’s probably my most listened to song on my Spotify playlist, it’s a great song!
Bill Cipher
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
A couple notes and addendums to my initial review after viewing some POVs and further rumination:
I was originally displeased with the lull section between the 2nd critter band scene and the scene before the dip drop for being too empty compared to Splash, but I'm beginning to realize this is supposed to be an intentional "low moment" in the narrative before the shrinking scene. The primary thing that suggests this is the lower-tempo audio loop next to the wooden shack. I think this actually a good spot to put a short atmospheric section (Splash did this as well) but I'm not sure it's the best execution. In this spot, my eye was instinctively drawn to the Tiana animatronic further down the flume as it's delivering dialogue to the boat ahead. The audio bleed from that dialogue stole my attention and I missed the ambient audio cue. Something more than the wooden shack to draw the eye to the left side of the track would do greatly for this scene. Just after the segment of Tiana sitting on the stump and Louis looking in the log, we see some stationary figures of the frogs before the Mama Odie screen and dip drop. I know the frogs are there to kind of foreshadow the next scene, but I think they would be better utilized just after the wooden shack in the ambient section. I overlooked the static figures there on my first ride because they were competing for attention with Mama Odie, but putting them just after the shack would allow the Tiana and Louis figures to move further back into their scene and create a better flowing sightline in my opinion. This is all sounding very nitpicky though.
The section between the first and second bands is meant to be a small "scene" where we follow the line of fireflies. There is an effect of fireflies flowing in a line depicted on the leafy canopy ceiling with fiber-optic lights. This is a really great effect, but the scene also suffers in execution because it competes with the screen at the far wall; which is more likely to grab your attention and leave the sides of the boat feeling rather empty. It would have been nice to see this fiber-optic effect on the sides of the flume, and maybe even have it weave around some additional critters. Again, a bit nitpicky.
Regarding audio, I'm now aware that several characters have variations on their dialogue to make audio bleed issues less awkward. This isn't something I picked up on during my first ride, but it's a nice touch nonetheless.
I do not understand the criticism from many that the plot of the ride is complicated or hard to understand. I understand why some might find the queue backstory hard to grasp (while I personally disagree) but the on-ride plot is incredibly simple and easy to follow. The first lift hill Tiana blatantly states she is looking for musicians to play at her party, and Louis in the garden does the same. Before the former slippin' falls drop an audio cue of Mama Odie states we can find the musicians in the bayou. Then, each following appearance of Tiana and Louis reiterate that the musicians they find will be joining them at the party. I can see why the shrinking dialogue from Mama Odie might be hard to hear and understand, but this is immediately followed by visuals of a giant bottle, key, and frog to suggest we shrunk. Then Mama Odie explains she will grow us again so we can make it to the party, all while the vehicle is stopped at the bottom of the main lift hill. Her animatronic at the top of the lift reiterates we're going to the party, and then after the drop we actually go there, completing the plot. If anything, I think the dialogue is heavy-handed and feels somewhat childish, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Clearly the dialogue wasn't dumbed down enough for some!
Even though on the whole I prefer Splash Mountain as an attraction, I think it's disingenuous and in bad-faith to call Tiana's Bayou Adventure "soulless" as many have jumped to claim. While the direct plot of the ride is very simple to appeal to younger demographics, there is a surprising amount of subtext here. The attraction feels like a love letter to New Orleans and Louisiana as a whole. The different critter bands playing different styles of music pioneered by African-American artists represents bringing different people in a community together to create something no single person could have created themselves. This parallels the inception of jazz music, which many consider to be the heart and soul of New Orleans. The original song Special Spice also draws this as a parallel to New Orleans cuisine (also considered the city's heart and soul) which uses an eclectic array of ingredients to create its unique flavor. The ride is showing the creative intersection between the culinary and musical arts in a city prolific for both. It drives home that creating something alongside others will result in something none of the parties involved would have ever created on their own. Many are quick to say this ride feels like it was designed by committee, but it seems clear to me that was deliberately the intention. Whether or not one prefers that approach is entirely subject to opinion, but it's not devoid of character or clever design.
Bayou
Well-Known Member
Because American Imagineers designed it. Also, Disney does have more control over Tokyo than people realize.
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SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
The like / dislike ratio just keeps getting worse for Disney.
MK-fan
Well-Known Member
Im in no way saying that the imagineers aren’t talented, they are amazing but in the end, it’s the Disney company who gets paid by the OLC who rent out their imagineers. OLC will provide the necessary budget for these imagineers to do amazing things, the Disney company won’t.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
This ride's problems were seemingly not due to it being underfunded. You don't have to believe me on the matter, several other reputable insiders on this forum have confirmed that it had a very healthy budget. The issues do seem to have been a result of gross mismanagement and just plain incompetence on the part of the team who designed this ride. And WDI lacking the talent necessary to pull it off.
Fantasy Springs has been in the planning phases since before 2015 when it was first announced (in a somewhat different form). When it was formally reannounced in 2018 and began construction shortly after, there was a final plan that had been settled on. Still years before Tiana's Bayou Adventure would even be announced, and even longer before TBA itself had a finalized plan and began construction. Fantasy Springs also had a different team than TBA. It also didn't help that a lot of people at WDI were fired or resigned during Covid and Chapek. I think even Fantasy Springs was affected by some key people departing while it was being built, but at least they had finalized plans that the remaining people could work with.
TBA i'd imagine was probably hit harder by the changes at WDI since they were happening while the project was still in its infancy and well before they had a settled on plan. But again, pretty important to stress that these were still very different teams working on the two projects regardless. Bob Iger also reportedly stuck his nose in TBA far more than was ordinary from park projects, so i'm curious if that meddling also affected the end results.
Fantasy Springs has been in the planning phases since before 2015 when it was first announced (in a somewhat different form). When it was formally reannounced in 2018 and began construction shortly after, there was a final plan that had been settled on. Still years before Tiana's Bayou Adventure would even be announced, and even longer before TBA itself had a finalized plan and began construction. Fantasy Springs also had a different team than TBA. It also didn't help that a lot of people at WDI were fired or resigned during Covid and Chapek. I think even Fantasy Springs was affected by some key people departing while it was being built, but at least they had finalized plans that the remaining people could work with.
TBA i'd imagine was probably hit harder by the changes at WDI since they were happening while the project was still in its infancy and well before they had a settled on plan. But again, pretty important to stress that these were still very different teams working on the two projects regardless. Bob Iger also reportedly stuck his nose in TBA far more than was ordinary from park projects, so i'm curious if that meddling also affected the end results.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
Scorpion king era CG giant Tiana bopping her weird head up and down will forever haunt my nightmares
EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
I think they have talent at WDI but they are handicapped by a design by committee method which is grossly inefficient. Contrast that with the Universal Creative of at least a couple years ago. It’s also probably why the international parks, especially TDR, have better quality attractions.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. OG55 is a great show. An East Coaster and a West Coaster discussing the parks and the greater Disney company. Just good, honest discussion.Great episode you did with them. OrangeGrove55 is underrated, people. Go check em' out, they break things down really well and have softened my view on this ride. Gonna give it a chance once I ride it soon!
Also, here's OrangeGrove55's channel:
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
They certainly seem swifter and possibly better at managing budgets at Universal, but I'm less certain the creative results are notably better overall. Both seem to have hits and misses and Universal certainly leans more into relatively unthemed coasters than Disney.
Basil of Baker Street
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. I thought I read where it featured all new music. I'm not watching the videos. Just looking at pictures of the ride. Will be there in July to experience it for myself.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I'm skeptical they have much talent left at all. It'll be interesting to see what Tokyo has plans next and how that turns out, because I think even some of the people who brought Fantasy Springs to life are gone. I think their new Space Mountain should provide some insight in that regard.
I've generally felt their Potter content has remained consistently high quality. Even if Forbidden Journey has thus far retained the crown in terms of attractions. But still, Diagon Alley itself was a masterpiece as a land. Gringotts less so, but still a fundamentally good ride. The Hogwarts Express was a revolutionary way of handling park-to-park transportation. The Hagrid coaster is also quite good and better themed than their other coasters. While thrill enthusiasts might lament the loss of the dualing dragons coaster, I consider Hagrid's to be a massive upgrade in terms of visuals and theming. I'm interested to see how the Ministry ride turns out, especially whether the rumors about Universal moving away from video-based attractions is accurate.
I'm not sold on the Epic Universe stuff, but i'm curious to see it. And i'll give Universal credit for not using Covid as an excuse to cancel or delay their projects way beyond any sort of reasonable amount of time like Disney has done. They bounced back and moved on far better than Disney has.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
Funding is something of a relative term though. I would be curious what it would cost to build Haunted Mansion or Pirates today (using updated technology.) Given the number of animatronics, my guess is that the budget would not be anywhere near what Tiana’s was. Like not even in the same universe.
I saw a video that was critical of TBA that quoted Walt Disney on how a ride should be like a short series of vignettes, like walking through a cocktail party and picking up multiple bits of conversation. It occurred to me that my expectations for Tiana were nowhere near what they would be for a Haunted Mansion or Pirates, because Disney just hasn’t built anything like that in a long time. I had them centered more around Little Mermaid and Frozen, and in comparison to those rides, I wasn’t disappointed. But looking at the truly old school rides? I don’t know that we’ll see budgets like that ever again, unless Lightning Lane income allows for them. If we do see that level of animatronic use again, I think it will 100% be because it was planned as an individual lightning lane ride.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
The way TWDC funds things really confuses me when you look at their different businesses.
In their movie business Disney has no problem burning through hundreds of millions of dollars with consistently NO ROI, or at the very least, the need to wait decades for a given movie to "be profitable" on paper.
In their theme park business, it seems they look at every penny, and will change, reduce, cut projects as standard operating procedure.
I am sure there were cost cuts made in Tiana.
Having said that, Tiana looks fine and I will ride it if the line is not too long.
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Drew the Disney Dude
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
This is, without a doubt, the most open conversation I've ever had about the ride as a whole. I highly suggest everyone watches the episode we did on their channel, especially since I've had so many people ask me what my thoughts are. We talked for nearly 2.5 hours, and a message describing the ride could never beat that.Great episode you did with them. OrangeGrove55 is underrated, people. Go check em' out, they break things down really well and have softened my view on this ride. Gonna give it a chance once I ride it soon!
Also, here's OrangeGrove55's channel:
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I'd also be curious if they could actually build a clone of something like Pirates in this day and age. They did so successfully in the early 90s with Paris. That version also had noticeable motion improvements to the entire animatronics population. In terms of set design, I think Disney MIGHT be capable of replicating it. Modern WDI are probably better suited to creating realistic scenery than something like an animated film, something I have noted as a complaint with TBA as its scenery looks too realistic IMO. It's the large AA population that always throws a wrench into everything.
As I said prior, Disney needs to rediscover the concept of "moderate" AA's to help fill out their scenes. Not have everything be either state of the art with hundreds of axes, or simple department store caliber moving props that repeat the same canned animation over and over again. POTC had a couple of figures that were state of the art at the time (Auctioneer and Blackbeard), but most of the others had more of a moderate design. Less advanced than those couple, but with enough dynamic motion of their own that they could still comfortably stand right next to the elaborate ones and still be a natural fit. Many could still talk or at least move in sync with a source of audio, and felt alive and natural instead of just repeating the same stock single motion over and over. Hall of Presidents is another great example of this moderation, with three high end AA's and the remainder being less advanced designs that can still move with a decent range of their own to make them feel alive and natural. In contrast, TBA has about a dozen figures with a good range of motion, but the remainder are all considerably worse than a ton of the figures in its predecessor. But even judged on its own, they also look especially awkward and stiff when positioned right next to the advanced Tiana and Louis figures.
Haunted Mansion seems far more possible for WDI to create a clone of these days given its seemingly smaller AA population. Most of which are relatively far away from the vehicle, rendering excessive movements of A1000s or even A100s completely unnecessary. That said, I wouldn't put it past them to screw it up. Especially since they seem hell-bent on screwing the existing classic Mansions up already.
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