News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress

[MerlinTheGoat]

There is plenty wrong with retheming one of their best and most popular rides. Both subjectively and objectively, it was an insanely stupid decision. Their worst ever, not sure. But it was a horrible decision nonetheless.

 

[James Alucobond]

They are replacing a ride that was a classic & wasting money that could have been spent elsewhere…

As if they don't "waste" hundreds of millions everywhere on even worse wholly unnecessary changes. Again, I am not saying that people can't be upset about it, just that it's a bit dramatic to rank this among the worst decisions ever, though I should probably just leave it at that given the fact that people obviously feel very strongly about the ride.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

As if they don't "waste" hundreds of millions everywhere on even worse wholly unnecessary changes. Again, I am not saying that people can't be upset about it, just that it's a bit dramatic to rank this among the worst decisions ever, though I should probably just leave it at that given the fact that people obviously feel very strongly about the ride.

I think you may be right…the worst is about to close right outside HWD…

 

[James Alucobond]

And yet here we are

Where progress photos can't be posted without everyone reliving their apparent collective trauma on a weekly basis?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

We still have tons of people (myself included) who gripe about the loss of Mr Toad, DL's Peoplemover, Imagination v1, Horizons, World of Motion etc. The idea that Splash will be any different is absurd. Splash was also far more popular than any of those other examples too, and there's a vast crowd of younger audiences who will remember it and have access to decent quality recordings of it.

The only thing that would nullify some of this backlash is if Tiana is of similar quality to Splash. Something that has almost zero chances of happening. I don't expect it to come close either. Even IF the desire and budget is there, WDI doesn't have the talent to pull it off.

 

[James Alucobond]

We still have tons of people (myself included) who gripe about the loss of Mr Toad, DL's Peoplemover, Imagination v1, Horizons, World of Motion etc. The idea that Splash will be any different is absurd. Splash was also far more popular than any of those other examples too, and there's a vast crowd of younger audiences who will remember it and have access to decent quality recordings of it.

Everything lost is missed, even moreso if it doesn't get replaced or what replaces it is especially disappointing. But maybe let this one play out first? Not directed at you in particular as I know you are letting it play out.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I’m tired of this argument.

What in the name of modern day Disney suggests they are going to maintain this ride after the first year?

So we should replace a ride because it didn’t receive proper maintenance with another ride that won’t receive proper maintenance.

Pixie dust logic.

As for the real reason of cost savings, while yes, its a costly re theme, but consider that all the technology in Splash was very old, maybe they had no more spare parts, many replacement parts perhaps needed to be custom made, very costly, perhaps they lost all institutional knowledge needed to maintain the very old Splash technology etc. Who knows, maybe there are accounting tricks because this is entire project is cost reduction maintenance.

I am guessing Splash did not get maintained because it was simply TOO EXPENSIVE to fix and or maintain.

I am guessing Tiana's new systems and hardware will be easier to maintain, therefore will get maintained.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Everything lost is missed, even moreso if it doesn't get replaced or what replaces it is especially disappointing. But maybe let this one play out first? Not directed at you in particular as I know you are letting it play out.

I am letting it play out. But honestly, how many times are we going to go through this cycle again and again before we say no more and stop giving them the benefit of doubt? The most reasonable and educated assumption IS that they're going to screw this up, and many of the warning signs are already present. It's Disney's job to prove people otherwise, they have not earned any better than extreme doubt and pessimism.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

As for the real reason of cost savings, while yes, its a costly re theme, but consider that all the technology in Splash was very old, maybe they had no more spare parts, many replacement parts perhaps needed to be custom made, very costly, perhaps they lost all institutional knowledge needed to maintain the very old Splash technology etc. Who knows, maybe there are accounting tricks because this is entire project is cost reduction maintenance.

I am guessing Splash did not get maintained because it was simply TOO EXPENSIVE to fix and or maintain.

I am guessing Tiana's new systems and hardware will be easier to maintain, therefore will get maintained.

Here's what happened, according to some insiders on this thread:

1. Tiana retheme had been "Blue Sky" for a long time with no real details.
2. 2020 happens and a very cheap (with lots of screens) retheme is announced ahead of it actually being ready. "Killing two birds with one stone." Cheapness is probably why it was approved, because Cheapek. The cultural moment is the other reason.
3. Backlash to the announcement takes management by surprise, so the budget is gradually increased with money taken from cancelled Epcot projects.
4. Now, they're promising the moon. Will it actually be less money to operate? Maybe. But if it's as good as some people believe it will be, it ought to cost more!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I would quite simply not place most re-theming decisions among the "top ten worst decisions" in Disney World history

Figment, Horizons, Maelstrom, World of Motion, the Great Movie Ride, and yes splash.

 

[Splash4eva]

Everything lost is missed, even moreso if it doesn't get replaced or what replaces it is especially disappointing. But maybe let this one play out first? Not directed at you in particular as I know you are letting it play out.

This is where ill disagree…. Who cares how it plays out. We removed an attraction that needed tlc not removal. Even if this overly is good. It could have gone elsewhere. Prime example. I loved the GMR and i think MMRR is an excellent ride. But that doesnt mean it should have replaced it. Especially with all the capacity issues they have

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Here was my thinking from the moment they announced the re theme of Splash.

I thought real reason in the inside was COST SAVINGS. And t to the outside world it was social justice.

The can kill two birds with one stone; cost savings and social justice.

As for the real reason of cost savings, while yes, its a costly re theme, but consider that all the technology in Splash was very old, maybe they had no more spare parts, many replacement parts perhaps needed to be custom made, very costly, perhaps they lost all institutional knowledge needed to maintain the very old Splash technology etc. Who knows, maybe there are accounting tricks because this is entire project is cost reduction maintenance.

I am guessing Splash did not get maintained because it was simply TOO EXPENSIVE to fix and or maintain.

I am guessing Tiana's new systems and hardware will be easier to maintain, therefore will get maintained.

Saving money on maintenance costs was certainly the intent early on when the project was announced. It was going to see a mass removal of animatronics and be almost purely video based outside of maybe a few new ones in the quantity of single digits or teens at most (probably face projected). The price tag was in the ballpark of $30-$40 million. However, they definitely gave up on that idea. The budget is much higher now. By how much, I don't know, but I know it's substantially more than it was. Demolition alone has ended up costing them the same amount as that originally proposed budget.

I still doubt it will have nearly as many AA's as Splash, but it still seems like it'll have a much larger number than anything they've built in the past few decades. Unless the art that they've released thus far is extremely deceptive even for Disney standards (something I won't discount as a possibility, despite what I was told).

Several of the figures are also going to be a lot more pricey than Splash's, both costly to build and also to maintain in the long term. While age can be a factor with older figures, their relative simplicity may also be a blessing. It can be easier to procure parts for them and also get them fixed in a more timely and cheaper manner. Potentially anyway. Despite there only being a relatively small number of figures in rides like Navi River or Rise of the Resistance, the figures are very advanced and frequently break down. Sometimes for extensive periods of time. Splash's old AA's break down as well, but it's commonly a case where they'll only lose partial movement and can still operate in some capacity (not that they should be neglected like that of course). And considering their sheer quantity, they seem somewhat more reliable at times than their small handful of state of the art figures.

They're not changing the existing track, so maintenance/parts on thost mechanical aspects are still going to cost the same as ever.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

This doesn't even crack the top 10 of bad decisions, especially if the attraction itself manages to not disappoint.

It's up there that's for sure. Closing TGMR for Runaway Railway is another bad decision.

 

[aladdin2007]

I am letting it play out. But honestly, how many times are we going to go through this cycle again and again before we say no more and stop giving them the benefit of doubt? The most reasonable and educated assumption IS that they're going to screw this up, and many of the warning signs are already present. It's Disney's job to prove people otherwise, they have not earned any better than extreme doubt and pessimism.

The fact that they cant even put up decent concept art on the construction walls is a bad sign in itself, the best they can do is a fast food drive thru sign. Its pathetic. Meanwhile over in Disneyland...............its like they aren't even attempting to try here.

 

[Kirby86]

The fact that they cant even put up decent concept art on the construction walls is a bad sign in itself, the best they can do is a fast food drive thru sign. Its pathetic. Meanwhile over in Disneyland...............its like they aren't even attempting to try here.

I still think the rumor that this was originally a Disneyland exclusive change over has some merit to it. It just seems that from the beginning the team was focused almost exclusively on Disneyland when it came to hyping up the attraction.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

The interesting thing about the Baxter comments is that it does seem he really isn't involved with this new attraction nor does he really know what they're doing with it. I guess that puts to rest the question of whether they were just highlighting the contributions of others.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I still think the rumor that this was originally a Disneyland exclusive change over has some merit to it. It just seems that from the beginning the team was focused almost exclusively on Disneyland when it came to hyping up the attraction.

Prior to it being announced, I can't say. It's clear they had the placement of New Orleans Square in mind for it when they came up with the idea. But the initial concept art they released was based on the version at WDW. So around the time it was greenlit, they did intend it for both parks. And again, it was still in very early stages at the time without a settled on concept.

The interesting thing about the Baxter comments is that it does seem he really isn't involved with this new attraction nor does he really know what they're doing with it. I guess that puts to rest the question of whether they were just highlighting the contributions of others.

I believe Tony still routinely visits WDI to observe, socialize and give advice (even if his opinions are often disregarded). He's very well connected and can find out anything if he wants. Especially this project. Unless he has deliberately refused information offered to him about it, I cannot imagine that he would be in the dark about what they're doing with it. Not to mention the prevalent rumor (something my source now seems to lend credence to) is that he left the project due to not liking the plan. That would suggest that he has some degree of knowledge of it.

He again almost certainly has some sort of NDA that would prevent him from sharing obvious details or opinions on current WDI projects. His comments about Tiana itself were vague. But at the same time, he focused on interesting details when discussing what made Splash work so well. Details that we coincidentally know Tiana contradicts. He disparaged overdone storylines that treat guests as if they're stupid. He went into detail about how the big drop was enhanced by the dark and scary nature of the final lift. And how the finale scene was designed to be this huge celebration with tons of animatronic figures that was your big reward for conquering the drop.

It's interesting because these are the inversely connected to many of the more pronounced complaints we've had with Tiana. The ridiculously preachy and over the top mess of a backstory. The final lift is being changed to be bright and cheery. And if SplashArchive's claims are to be believed (they've again yet to post the renders they said they possessed), the finale is being dumbed down to only 6 or so animatronics and will heavily feature video projection instead of physical setpieces.

I'm sure Tony knows full well most if not all of the plan they went with. But that was the most he can say legally to the public.

 

[JoeCamel]

Prior to it being announced, I can't say. It's clear they had the placement of New Orleans Square in mind for it when they came up with the idea. But the initial concept art they released was based on the version at WDW. So around the time it was greenlit, they did intend it for both parks. And again, it was still in very early stages at the time without a settled on concept.


I believe Tony still routinely visits WDI to observe, socialize and give advice (even if his opinions are often disregarded). He's very well connected and can find out anything if he wants. Especially this project. Unless he has deliberately refused information offered to him about it, I cannot imagine that he would be in the dark about what they're doing with it. Not to mention the prevalent rumor (something my source now seems to lend credence to) is that he left the project due to not liking the plan. That would suggest that he has some degree of knowledge of it.

He again almost certainly has some sort of NDA that would prevent him from sharing obvious details or opinions on current WDI projects. His comments about Tiana itself were vague. But at the same time, he focused on interesting details when discussing what made Splash work so well. Details that we coincidentally know Tiana contradicts. He disparaged overdone storylines that treat guests as if they're stupid. He went into detail about how the big drop was enhanced by the dark and scary nature of the final lift. And how the finale scene was designed to be this huge celebration with tons of animatronic figures that was your big reward for conquering the drop.

It's interesting because these are the inversely connected to many of the more pronounced complaints we've had with Tiana. The ridiculously preachy and over the top mess of a backstory. The final lift is being changed to be bright and cheery. And if SplashArchive's claims are to be believed (they've again yet to post the renders they said they possessed), the finale is being dumbed down to only 6 or so animatronics and will heavily feature video projection instead of physical setpieces.

I'm sure Tony knows full well most if not all of the plan they went with. But that was the most he can say legally to the public.

I wonder if bringing Tony on as "consultant" didn't have several goals? His rep would give the project substance but getting him into a NDA by doing that might be insurance that he doesn't throw shade on it. Win win as it were

 

[celluloid]

Absent the context of the capacity issue, there is nothing inherently wrong with re-theming a ride. Perfection is subjective, and it certainly wasn't in perfect condition; one of the bad decisions that tops the decision to re-theme would be the decision to allow it to get to the state it was in prior to this work beginning (alongside the general lack of maintenance on multiple attractions).

Really all you are left with then is the merch sells better if the tv show property does well.

Retheming attractions historically occur when an attraction is no longer popular.

That was not the case with Splash Mountain.

So it is at best, mostly a lateral move to the guest.

 

[aladdin2007]

Prior to it being announced, I can't say. It's clear they had the placement of New Orleans Square in mind for it when they came up with the idea. But the initial concept art they released was based on the version at WDW. So around the time it was greenlit, they did intend it for both parks. And again, it was still in very early stages at the time without a settled on concept.


I believe Tony still routinely visits WDI to observe, socialize and give advice (even if his opinions are often disregarded). He's very well connected and can find out anything if he wants. Especially this project. Unless he has deliberately refused information offered to him about it, I cannot imagine that he would be in the dark about what they're doing with it. Not to mention the prevalent rumor (something my source now seems to lend credence to) is that he left the project due to not liking the plan. That would suggest that he has some degree of knowledge of it.

He again almost certainly has some sort of NDA that would prevent him from sharing obvious details or opinions on current WDI projects. His comments about Tiana itself were vague. But at the same time, he focused on interesting details when discussing what made Splash work so well. Details that we coincidentally know Tiana contradicts. He disparaged overdone storylines that treat guests as if they're stupid. He went into detail about how the big drop was enhanced by the dark and scary nature of the final lift. And how the finale scene was designed to be this huge celebration with tons of animatronic figures that was your big reward for conquering the drop.

It's interesting because these are the inversely connected to many of the more pronounced complaints we've had with Tiana. The ridiculously preachy and over the top mess of a backstory. The final lift is being changed to be bright and cheery. And if SplashArchive's claims are to be believed (they've again yet to post the renders they said they possessed), the finale is being dumbed down to only 6 or so animatronics and will heavily feature video projection instead of physical setpieces.

I'm sure Tony knows full well most if not all of the plan they went with. But that was the most he can say legally to the public.

I wonder if he left during the first initial plan, or after it got reworked with a higher budget...that would be interesting to know.