Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Disney Analyst]

This is true. With that being said, this has likely been happening for decades. There were people in the 80s and 90s saying the same thing.

We also have fans that haven’t changed the way they consume Disney products and have no intentions to because they’re unbothered.

I feel this is true of anything people are passionate about. It ebbs and it flows. As we age, our tastes change, or our priorities certainly do.

Yet here we all are... still on a message board discussing Disney parks.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I feel this is true of anything people are passionate about. It ebbs and it flows. As we age, our tastes change, or our priorities certainly do.

Yet here we all are... still on a message board discussing Disney parks.

Exactly. And it’s impossible to know how every Disney fan feels. It’s also impossible to determine how the newer Disney films will be thought of or considered in the future. Some of us may feel like they don’t have have staying power, based on our own subjective opinions, mind you, but that doesn’t mean it will turn out to be true in the future. It’s entirely possible that these movies will become popular over time. Society changes, people change, things change. We’re not sure how the upcoming Generation Alpha will be, in terms of Disney fandom, or the generation that will come after them, and so on.

F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby was a commercial flop when it was first published. It’s now considered one of the best pieces of American literature ever written and is literary canon, and has been for many years.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Exactly. And it’s impossible to know how every Disney fan feels. It’s also impossible to determine how the newer Disney films will be thought of or considered in the future. Some of us may feel like they don’t have have staying power, based on our own subjective opinions, mind you, but that doesn’t mean it will turn out to be true in the future. It’s entirely possible that these movies will become popular over time. Society changes, people change, things change. We’re not sure how the upcoming Generation Alpha will be, in terms of Disney fandom, or the generation that will come after them, and so on.

F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby was a commercial flop when it was first published. It’s now considered one of the best pieces of American literature ever written and is literary canon, and has been for many years.

A lot of films are flops upon release. Many films become "cult classics".

The Hollywood industry in general is a mystery. How many films have made their money back right away, and how many have made it back overtime, like a long term investment? What is the normal? Is there a normal?

 

[Californian Elitist]

A lot of films are flops upon released. Many films become "cult classics".

The Hollywood industry in general is a mystery. How many films have made their money back right away, and how many have made it back overtime, like a long term investment? What is the normal? Is there a normal?

1000%.

 

[PiratesMansion]

There are quite a number of people on here who like to decry modern Disney films and characters, the inability of their movies to connect in the same way as movies from whatever the "good ol' days" were to them, etc. But I find that many of those people share several or all of these characteristics:
1. They're not actually watching the latest Disney movies themselves
2. They're not sufficiently acknowledging that even though in some ways streaming is turning out to be a bit of a bust, it is nontheless true that the way people consume content has changed because of it, as has the definition of what is or is not a success.
3. They neither have children themselves, nor do they regularly interact with any in the age group that Disney primarily targets with their content. I can only think of a handful of people who regularly post here who actually have kids under the age of 12 or so, i.e. the people these movies and content are primarily pitched towards.
4. They get caught in a feedback loop-easy enough on any forum, where there's never a shortage of people looking to complain or air their grievance about their company they follow/hobby/whatever. And I get it: it can be easy to get in that loop and get stuck there, and after all, this is a Disney Theme Park board, not a Disney movie board. But it's nonetheless consistent that it's ALWAYS the people who clearly haven't engaged in Disney content outside the parks in some time and/or don't regularly interact with children who have the loudest opinions about the movies and what is or is not a success in their eyes.

Things can connect with different people and different generations without necessarily connecting to you personally. One person's sacred cow is another person's thoughtlessly chowed down Big Mac.

TBF, those years were during the height of Covid and lockdowns with little else to do other than stream movies. (Although I LOVE Turning Red and Moana being so high up there in 2022.)

That would be true if those movies haven't continued to endure since then, but they have.

And realistically, "lockdown" for most of the country basically ended in May 2021 if not earlier, so even if 2020 and some of 2021 fit that metric, I'm not sure it can accurately be extended into 2022 as a significant factor in the success of those movies.

 

[Too Many Hats]

It sounds like your predictions are based on your own personal feelings towards the company. The company is 100 years old with a league of followers. More will more likely than not come, for whatever reason(s).

Totally fair. On this topic, to some extent I find it hard to distinguish the views of the general public from my own. However, there has been at least a minor feeling of cynicism toward Disney parks/films in the public consciousness during the last few years, for various reasons (rising ticket/resort prices; film bombs; Disney+ struggles; Iger/Chapek drama; anti-woke parents). Major papers like the NYT have written about it.

I don't have kids, but I have nieces and nephews, as well as friends with young kids. They all love the films (Turning Red, Frozen, Encanto); I didn't really mean to comment on that. But regarding the theme parks, my sense is that kids in 2023 are quite a bit savvier than those of us who grew up in the 1990s. This is totally anecdotal and should be taken as such, but it's unsurprising to me that my siblings' kids -- growing up surrounded by technology -- are unimpressed by Pirates of the Caribbean. Just wait until they're old enough to notice all the broken effects, or the fact that it takes WDW 5 years to open a new ride.

Or wait until Epic Universe opens. I'm old enough to remember when it would've been laughable for Disney to worry about losing market share to Universal.

That's all I have time to type right now lol, but my point is -- it's not clear Disney will be held in such high esteem by future generations. I'm not saying people will stop going to the parks anytime soon. But this could be the beginning of a slow, painful decline, unless there is a major paradigm shift among Disney leadership.

 

[celluloid]

Totally fair. On this topic, to some extent I find it hard to distinguish the views of the general public from my own. However, there has been at least a minor feeling of cynicism toward Disney parks/films in the public consciousness during the last few years, for various reasons (rising ticket/resort prices; film bombs; Disney+ struggles; Iger/Chapek drama; anti-woke parents). Major papers like the NYT have written about it.

You can see a general public shift in the situations such as Animation. Where Illumination and Dreamworks have had bigger hits in the box office for the general public than Disney.

 

[Too Many Hats]

Just think to when you and I (I'm 36) were kids and the whole park *worked*. There were no effects out, no just turning the lights out on a scene and hoping no one notices.

Yes. This is critical. I suspect many guests notice the shoddy maintenance, even if only subconsciously.

I was obsessed with this stuff as kid. I would've noticed if the Hitchhiking Ghosts didn't appear or if none of the turntables on Pirates were spinning or if none of the Small World hula dancers were dancing. I don't recall that stuff ever happening back then.

(To the Disneyland maintenance crew's credit -- this summer, all 5 hula dancers have returned and are dancing, all 5 turntables are repaired and spinning, and Mansion is in great shape. But it didn't used to take years to fix broken effects)

 

[PiratesMansion]

You can see a general public shift in the situations such as Animation. Where Illumination and Dreamworks have had bigger hits in the box office for the general public than Disney.

But this is hardly the early 00's. And while many Disney films from that period were widely derided or panned, many of them have since found an audience. By contrast, Dreamworks films were huge during the same time period, but now? Dreamworks has fallen off in a BIG way since the mid teens in terms of box office and general awareness. They haven't had a HUGE hit for about a decade.

Certainly not everything is rosy, and the perception of Disney isn't exactly what it was decades ago. But I don't think things are anywhere near as dire for Disney (reputationally or in terms of movie performance/perception/etc) as some in this thread are suggesting.

 

[mickEblu]

Totally fair. On this topic, to some extent I find it hard to distinguish the views of the general public from my own. However, there has been at least a minor feeling of cynicism toward Disney parks/films in the public consciousness during the last few years, for various reasons (rising ticket/resort prices; film bombs; Disney+ struggles; Iger/Chapek drama; anti-woke parents). Major papers like the NYT have written about it.

I don't have kids, but I have nieces and nephews, as well as friends with young kids. They all love the films (Turning Red, Frozen, Encanto); I didn't really mean to comment on that. But regarding the theme parks, my sense is that kids in 2023 are quite a bit savvier than those of us who grew up in the 1990s. This is totally anecdotal and should be taken as such, but it's unsurprising to me that my siblings' kids -- growing up surrounded by technology -- are unimpressed by Pirates of the Caribbean. Just wait until they're old enough to notice all the broken effects, or the fact that it takes WDW 5 years to open a new ride.

Or wait until Epic Universe opens. I'm old enough to remember when it would've been laughable for Disney to worry about losing market share to Universal.

That's all I have time to type right now lol, but my point is -- it's not clear Disney will be held in such high esteem by future generations. I'm not saying people will stop going to the parks anytime soon. But this could be the beginning of a slow, painful decline, unless there is a major paradigm shift among Disney leadership.

Really? How old are your nieces and nephews? My kids are 7 and 2 love Pirates of the Caribbean. But my son has always been a bit of an old soul. I’ve caught him watching Steamboat Willy on his own. He’s drawn to the old style cartoons. Not sure if it’s the simplicity or the orchestra or what. Just last week I put on The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad for him because he starting to understand that almost every ride is based on some movie and he actually sat through the whole thing with a smile on his face. I couldn’t believe it. Do you know how slow the Mr. Toad portion of that package film is?

I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with his daddy. Everyday he’s pitching me ideas for new rides.

 

[Dear Prudence]

This is true. With that being said, this has likely been happening for decades. There were people in the 80s and 90s saying the same thing.

We also have fans that haven’t changed the way they consume Disney products and have no intentions to because they’re unbothered.

I agree with this, but now you're also dealing with mindless stans and /or influencers whose whole "job" is pretending to like things/ paid to overconsume fast fashion/ vlog at the parks, etc. There are absolutely people who are unbothered, but there's also an influx of unreliable narrators.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Really? How old are your nieces and nephews? My kids are 7 and 2 love Pirates of the Caribbean. But my son has always been a bit of an old soul. I’ve caught him watching Steamboat Willy on his own. He’s drawn to the old style cartoons. Not sure if it’s the simplicity or the orchestra or what. Just last week I put on The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad for him because he starting to understand that almost every ride is based on some movie and he actually sat through the whole thing with a smile on his face. I couldn’t believe it. Do you know how slow the Mr. Toad portion of that package film is?

I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with his daddy. Everyday he’s pitching me ideas for new rides.

That kid's going places.

You should get him started on Davy Crockett. I used to love those when I was about his age.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I agree with this, but now you're also dealing with mindless stans and /or influencers whose whole "job" is pretending to like things/ paid to overconsume fast fashion/ vlog at the parks, etc. There are absolutely people who are unbothered, but there's also an influx of unreliable narrators.

True, and this is why it’s far-fetched to say that we are the last generation of fans who who find the Disney brand special. It’s impossible to know how all Disney fans feel, and folks are throwing out big claims based on their own experience as a Disney fan and not looking at multiple factor. Those who are unbothered will likely pass down their adoration for Disney down to their kin. Even some of the people who are disappointed in the company’s choices will also likely pass down the love and introduce Disney to their kin. I’m a prime example. I haven’t been pleased with the parks and haven’t been too entirely impressed with the company in general. I have gone to the parks just two times over the span of nearly four years. With that being said, I’m planning a Disneyland trip for my twin baby niece and nephew’s 2nd birthdays. As you know, I’ve introduced them to Disney programming, and will continue to. Even some folks here have expressed disappointment and have still gone to the parks with their kids, exposing them to the Disney brand.

Yes, Disney is in a different spot than it was even 10 years ago, but it’s a legacy brand that has endured for 100 years, all while going through various changes in that time. This is nothing new. It’s more likely than not going to attract new fans from new and upcoming generations. I’m in the middle of indoctrinating my niece and nephew into the fandom now.

 

[BrianLo]

There are quite a number of people on here who like to decry modern Disney films and characters, the inability of their movies to connect in the same way as movies from whatever the "good ol' days" were to them, etc. But I find that many of those people share several or all of these characteristics:
1. They're not actually watching the latest Disney movies themselves
2. They're not sufficiently acknowledging that even though in some ways streaming is turning out to be a bit of a bust, it is nontheless true that the way people consume content has changed because of it, as has the definition of what is or is not a success.
3. They neither have children themselves, nor do they regularly interact with any in the age group that Disney primarily targets with their content. I can only think of a handful of people who regularly post here who actually have kids under the age of 12 or so, i.e. the people these movies and content are primarily pitched towards.
4. They get caught in a feedback loop-easy enough on any forum, where there's never a shortage of people looking to complain or air their grievance about their company they follow/hobby/whatever. And I get it: it can be easy to get in that loop and get stuck there, and after all, this is a Disney Theme Park board, not a Disney movie board. But it's nonetheless consistent that it's ALWAYS the people who clearly haven't engaged in Disney content outside the parks in some time and/or don't regularly interact with children who have the loudest opinions about the movies and what is or is not a success in their eyes.

I think this is exactly it. There is a bit too much criticism going on from the lens of the childless millennial.

I think Gen Alpha is going to be an extremely strong future consumer. They are largely the product of millenials, whom like it or not are quite possibly the biggest demographic Disney has ever had nostalgia-wise. They are now the ones having said kids and exposing them to the brand. The other parallels are the quite strong 4 quad lineup of Frozen, Frozen 2, Moana and Encanto that resembles very much the big four of the early renaissance. Including the analogy of the VHS boom to Disney Plus suddenly bringing the content in the household in a very consistent way.

Before anyone brings up how 'old' Frozen is, how many young millennials here identity with Little Mermaid when the movie was probably released before they were born? This new generation have all just been plugged into Disney directly via D+. Financial aspects aside, this is an all consuming drip-line to Disney.

The parks drama simply doesn't impact kids in the same way. They don't care about pricing, internal politics, external politics or changes to rides.

Can kids connect to other studios? Of course they can. Lots of us had that experience when we are younger. One of the difference makers is that no US-based animated studio has really ever kept themselves relevant quite in the same way Disney manages to. Shrek is largely a dying IP. Don Bluth films long forgotten to kids today. Maybe Minions will have staying power, but is Comcast really as powerful at 'watering' or 'wringing-out' their brands like Disney? Almost everything in their parks are IP antiquities or owned by other conglomerates. Don't get me wrong, I actually love their parks and AM nostalgic for them. But if anyone has changed their original parks beyond their early days recognition it's Universal.

Which brings it back to the topic at hand, kids are going to love Tiana's Bayou Adventure if it's well done enough and the only ones still complaining about the change, years from now, will be their aging parents.

 

[celluloid]

But this is hardly the early 00's. And while many Disney films from that period were widely derided or panned, many of them have since found an audience. By contrast, Dreamworks films were huge during the same time period, but now? Dreamworks has fallen off in a BIG way since the mid teens in terms of box office and general awareness. They haven't had a HUGE hit for about a decade.

Certainly not everything is rosy, and the perception of Disney isn't exactly what it was decades ago. But I don't think things are anywhere near as dire for Disney (reputationally or in terms of movie performance/perception/etc) as some in this thread are suggesting.

PussnBoots spin off sequel outgrossed Disney animations released at the same time time. Dreamworks is not often above in box office but that is why it was brought up. It was also not only in reference to theatrical. This generation of kids has been raised and is being raised on Netflix Dreamworks streaming series and on Peacock the way Saturday Morning and afternoon Disney Cartoons raised kids of my generation.

Illumination box office, they have slammed Disney in what kids fine just as entertaining and parents taking them to it and enjoying it too.

Father with two kids here. Not a childless millennial. The times change. Disney is still Disney when it is, but it is certainly more rare than that was for many with kids right now and many tablet watching kids watch youtube or other brands of animation just as much if not more than what Disney produces. This year alone, Disney had a struggle getting their animated summer release to reach third place behind two other animated hits near the top of the box office. No trust in franchises that have fatigue. Not trust that they can remake a bombed film any better than the bomb it was 20 years ago. I think most of Universal's animation releases this year will surpass Disney's summer one. We won't even go into how ugly it was two years ago.

Disney is not dried up. But the laurels have been rested on enough where plenty have caught up to them. And we live in a world where attention for eyeballs is more competitive than ever and the general public's trust in Disney delivering a good product is not very healthy at the moment.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I think this is exactly it. There is a bit too much criticism going on from the lens of the childless millennial.

I think Gen Alpha is going to be an extremely strong future consumer. They are largely the product of millenials, whom like it or not are quite possibly the biggest demographic Disney has ever had nostalgia-wise. They are now the ones having said kids and exposing them to the brand. The other parallels are the quite strong 4 quad lineup of Frozen, Frozen 2, Moana and Encanto that resembles very much the big four of the early renaissance. Including the analogy of the VHS boom to Disney Plus suddenly bringing the content in the household in a very consistent way.

Before anyone brings up how 'old' Frozen is, how many young millennials here identity with Little Mermaid when the movie was probably released before they were born? This new generation have all just been plugged into Disney directly via D+. Financial aspects aside, this is an all consuming drip-line to Disney.

The parks drama simply doesn't impact kids in the same way. They don't care about pricing, internal politics, external politics or changes to rides.

Can kids connect to other studios? Of course they can. Lots of us had that experience when we are younger. One of the difference makers is that no US-based animated studio has really ever kept themselves relevant quite in the same way Disney manages to. Shrek is largely a dying IP. Don Bluth films long forgotten to kids today. Maybe Minions will have staying power, but is Comcast really as powerful at 'watering' or 'wringing-out' their brands like Disney? Almost everything in their parks are IP antiquities or owned by other conglomerates. Don't get me wrong, I actually love their parks and AM nostalgic for them. But if anyone has changed their original parks beyond their early days recognition it's Universal.

Which brings it back to the topic at hand, kids are going to love Tiana's Bayou Adventure if it's well done enough and the only ones still complaining about the change, years from now, will be their aging parents.

Agreed 100%, though I would say that there are many *ahem* serial complainers fitting my criteria who appear to be much older than Millenials, at least to the extent that one can gauge age over the internet.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

Do you know how slow the Mr. Toad portion of that package film is?

I'm offended by this. That's easily my favorite part of the film. Icabod Crane is boring and lame.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I'm offended by this. That's easily my favorite part of the film. Icabod Crane is boring and lame.

I don't know about that, does this look boring and lame to you?

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

I don't know about that, does this look boring and lame to you?

I don't revisit it as frequently as Mr. Toad, so I may have forgotten what happens outside of the Headless Horseman song.

 

[No Name]

It's terrible because of what it could have been, but both TBA and Splash Mountain sound like AI-generated names that do little to inspire. I think the only reason why the latter name may be loved is because of emotional connection and nostalgia.

But Splash Mountain fits well alongside Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain. It’s a very simple and speakable name, like Incredicoaster, or even Mission Breakout. People will never call it Tiana’s Bayou Adventure because it doesn’t roll off the tongue in any way in a sentence… that’s not a matter of nostalgia, just the reality of how people speak. Just like Zip-a-Dee River Run never would’ve been a good name.