Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[October82]

Casual reminder that this big crazy mess got started because some guy on Twitter posted their idea for a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain.

I posted an idea for a Muppet dark ride on Twitter. Where's the announcement that Disney decided to use MY idea?

If you believe Disney PR, this has been in the works for more than a year. If you look at how Disney has operated with all of their parks, turning "non-IP" attractions to have even marginally well known IP tie ins has been their MO for the last several years. There's nothing different about this. Major corporations do things that make them money, not things that people on Twitter suggest they do.

And to be clear, I'm not defending this. I just don't believe Disney has a conscience or political motives. I think they care most about the only things they've shown they care about - moving merchandise and selling streaming services.

 

[Brer Panther]

If you believe Disney PR, this has been in the works for more than a year.

Forgive me for not believing their claim that this is just a coincidence. A reminder, Disney considered The Princess and the Frog enough of a flop to rethink making any more hand-drawn films. Why would they suddenly do a 180?

 

[October82]

Forgive me for not believing their claim that this is just a coincidence. A reminder, Disney considered The Princess and the Frog enough of a flop to rethink making any more hand-drawn films. Why would they suddenly do a 180?

That's a good question. You'd have to ask them. If I had to guess, it's probably because companies aren't monolithic entities, and different executives prioritize different things.

The same question applies to Ratatouille, btw, which was at one point used in public comments by Bob Iger as exactly the sort of IP they wouldn't invest in. Now there are major Ratatouille attractions at DLP and Epcot.

Disney doesn't gain or lose anything by responding to ideas/petitions/whatever people share on twitter. There's just an intrinsic difference between what fans/people on the internet care about and how companies think. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it's not.

 

[mickEblu]

More than Song of the South.

Irrelevant as Splash Mountain has already been cemented as a classic and very popular attraction.

As far as the parks IP are concerned Splash > PatF.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Forgive me for not believing their claim that this is just a coincidence. A reminder, Disney considered The Princess and the Frog enough of a flop to rethink making any more hand-drawn films. Why would they suddenly do a 180?

Technically Winnie the Pooh was the film that killed off 2D animation, not PATF.

Not that PATF was a box office hit or anything, but...

 

[October82]

Irrelevant as Splash Mountain has already been cemented as a classic and very popular attraction.

As far as the parks IP are concerned Splash > PatF.

I feel like there's a microcosm of political polarization in a few short posts. Yes, Splash Mountain has cultural resonance. I don't disagree with you. But so did the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. And just as Guardians > ToT, PatF > Splash Mountain in the eyes of the MBAs in Burbank.

You don't agree with it and I don't agree with it, but Disney doesn't think they're throwing money away. They're a company, not a non-profit with values to defend. They think they're going to make more money without Splash than with it. And that really is all there is to it.

 

[mickEblu]

I feel like there's a microcosm of political polarization in a few short posts. Yes, Splash Mountain has cultural resonance. I don't disagree with you. But so did the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. And just as Guardians > ToT, PatF > Splash Mountain in the eyes of the MBAs in Burbank.

You don't agree with it and I don't agree with it, but Disney doesn't think they're throwing money away. They're a company, not a non-profit with values to defend. They think they're going to make more money without Splash than with it. And that really is all there is to it.

Disney doesn’t know what they re doing. They announced this re-theme in the middle of a pandemic and don’t even have the budget to pull this off properly. I guess they think they can fall back on screens and a couple good AAs.

As far as long term they re throwing away thematic integrity and quality to appease young loud people on Twitter. They figure they already have the middle aged and older people as we re already hooked on so much of the parks history and everything it still has to offer. They know that even if I’m ed about Splash I probably have a kid that could care less and will still want to go. They don’t want to lose the younger generation of 20 somethings. They just go with whatever the trend is. When it wasn’t cool to be Lesbian they canned Ellen.

Now we have social media which makes things even more complex because what huge company like Disney dare goes against the Mob at the possibility of not being viewed as progressive?

Also I’m not here because I care about Disney’s profit margins, are you? That’s not why you re here.

 

[J4546]

i really liked princess and the frog and the fact that its set in new orleans and even takes place in the haunted mansion graveyard....to me it fits right in perfectly for DL. I think it will be a slam dunk when its all done. I also thought the animatronics and theming of splash was dated but i still really liked the ride as a whole. but regardless I wouldnt care to much if they did or didnt do the retheme

To me how big of a deal this is to some people is funny though. dont get me wrong, i love disneyland as a whole and think splash is a great ride and get how people can get attached to rides and things....but its a god darn log flume in an amusement park. there are soo many things happening on this planet that retheming a log flume in an amusement park is not a big deal to me. Especially when you consider that Disney is constantly changing and in 20-40 years it will be much much different still. just like when they redid tower of terror to GotG...who cares. they are rides at a theme park. and they are still great.

i dunno just have fun

 

[October82]

Disney doesn’t know what they re doing. They announced this re-theme in the middle of a pandemic and don’t even have the budget to pull this off properly. I guess they think they can fall back on screens and a couple good AAs.

As far as long term they re throwing away thematic integrity and quality to appease young loud people on Twitter. They figure they already have the middle aged and older people as we re already hooked on so much of the parks history and everything it still has to offer. They know that even if I’m ****ed about Splash I probably have a kid that could care less and will still want to go. They don’t want to lose the younger generation of 20 somethings. They just go with whatever the trend is. When it wasn’t cool to be Lesbian they canned Ellen.

Now we have social media which makes things even more complex because what huge company like Disney dare goes against the Mob at the possibility of not being viewed as progressive?

Also I’m not here because I care about Disney’s profit margins, are you? That’s not why you re here.

I agree with almost everything here. Which is exactly why they're definitely not doing it to appease people on twitter. Nobody cares what people on twitter think about anything, companies don't make $100 million investments to appease people who were already going to spend money anyway.

This is absolutely about franchise rights, moving merchandise, and turning what they view as worthless IP into something with broader appeal. It sucks, but it's not about the "culture wars".

Not to pick on @J4546's post, but his post is exactly why they're doing this.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Of course she doesn’t speak for everyone but from every real live person I’ve heard I’d consider her the highest authority.

We can do away with the Harris stories while still preserving the Brer Characters and Splash Mountain. Both things can happen but it’s more work and Disney would rather just not deal with it.

I’ll be honest I’m not on expert on the Harris stories. I’ve seen Song of the South a couple times and I have a basic understanding of the stories and their origin. Off the top of my head I don’t know what can be considered racist about Disney’s representation of those stories as the animated segments in SOTS aside from the tar baby which was not included in Splash Mountain. I guess I have more of an 80s view on life and how they approached building the ride. Take out the bad stuff and leave the good. The rationale they re using to get rid of Splash (the animated segments are associated with the live action movie which had parts the glorified the reconstruction) Is so weak that you can literally apply it anywhere in Disneyland. The Racist horrible man who made SOTS made Everything else so it all has to go.

I don’t think one can truly remove Harris from the Brer characters. That connection will always be there. Disney doesn’t care about what people on Twitter think.

I’ve said this before, but Splash’s biggest issue and the cause of its downfall is its connection to Song of the South, a banned movie that Disney doesn’t want to acknowledge. The same cannot be said about any other Disney film that’s been released to theaters. There are issues we can pick out in other films, but they’re not banned. Also, the issues we find in said films are mainly specific scenes, while Song of the South is problematic from beginning to end, with the Magical Negro trope and other racist elements.

 

[mickEblu]

I agree with almost everything here. Which is exactly why they're definitely not doing it to appease people on twitter. Nobody cares what people on twitter think about anything, companies don't make $100 million investments to appease people who were already going to spend money anyway.

This is absolutely about franchise rights, moving merchandise, and turning what they view as worthless IP into something with broader appeal. It sucks, but it's not about the "culture wars".

Not to pick on @J4546's post, but his post is exactly why they're doing this.

I don’t think it has anything to do with PatF. The thought process was “Splash has to go. What can we replace it with?” Not “we have this hot IP, PatF that we just need to get in the parks ASAP.”

 

[SplashGhost]

Even if this retheme was going to happen eventually, the timing of the announcement was very much a reaction to Twitter cancel culture. The timing of the announcement was a marketing attempt to appeal to "woke" Twitter and nothing more.

From a pure financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense to announce something during a pandemic when you don't even know when Disneyland can reopen.

 

[October82]

I don’t think it has anything to do with PatF. The thought process was “Splash has to go. What can we replace it with?” Not “we have this hot IP, PatF that we just need to get in the parks ASAP.”

Perhaps. But like every other example in the last decade, I would guess the conversation began with "we have to spend large amounts of money on a major refurbishment, how do we justify this?" and not "Splash has to go because people on twitter are angry". The Bobs have talked about this process in Disney press releases/interviews/shareholder meetings, and it's been consistent as to how they're making these decisions. It's why I'd guess Space Mountain will be the next to go.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I don’t think one can truly remove Harris from the Brer characters. That connection will always be there. Disney doesn’t care about what people on Twitter think.

I’ve said this before, but Splash’s biggest issue and the cause of its downfall is its connection to Song of the South, a banned movie that Disney doesn’t want to acknowledge. The same cannot be said about any other Disney film that’s been released to theaters. There are issues we can pick out in other films, but they’re not banned. Also, the issues we find in said films are mainly specific scenes, while Song of the South is problematic from beginning to end, with the Magical Negro trope and other racist elements.

Incorrect, Song of the South is not "banned" anywhere. Disney just choses not to release it and your other claim that Disney doesn't want to acknowledge it is also false, look up any making of the ride material from any of the parks that have it and Disney openly talks about its connection to Song of the South. They never hid from it or pretended the movie didn't exist. They just chose not to release it on a home video format is all.

 

[October82]

Even if this retheme was going to happen eventually, the timing of the announcement was very much a reaction to Twitter cancel culture. The timing of the announcement was a marketing attempt to appeal to "woke" Twitter and nothing more.

From a pure financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense to announce something during a pandemic when you don't even know when Disneyland can reopen.

Bob Chapek (IIRC) actually discussed exactly this point. Their view is any investment that was a good one before the pandemic will still be a good one after the pandemic.

I think they're right about that, actually. This isn't a recession with an unknown end date and unclear causes. The economy and tourism will recover once the virus is dealt with.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Incorrect, Song of the South is not "banned" anywhere. Disney just choses not to release it and your other claim that Disney doesn't want to acknowledge it is also false, look up any making of the ride material from any of the parks that have it and Disney openly talks about its connection to Song of the South. They never hid from it or pretended the movie didn't exist. They just chose not to release it on a home video format is all.

Song of the South is banned in the United States, in the sense that one cannot buy it officially anywhere. This is a fact. And yes, they refuse to acknowledge it. They were more open about it when the film first released, but nowadays? It’s different. They don’t like to talk about it.

 

[Little Green Men]

Casual reminder that this big crazy mess got started because some guy on Twitter posted their idea for a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain.

I posted an idea for a Muppet dark ride on Twitter. Where's the announcement that Disney decided to use MY idea?

Forgive me for not believing their claim that this is just a coincidence. A reminder, Disney considered The Princess and the Frog enough of a flop to rethink making any more hand-drawn films. Why would they suddenly do a 180?

@TP2000 had the scoop on that

 

[mickEblu]

Perhaps. But like every other example in the last decade, I would guess the conversation began with "we have to spend large amounts of money on a major refurbishment, how do we justify this?" and not "Splash has to go because people on twitter are angry". The Bobs have talked about this process in Disney press releases/interviews/shareholder meetings, and it's been consistent as to how they're making these decisions. It's why I'd guess Space Mountain will be the next to go.

When I say twitter, I'm not literally only talking about Twitter. I say Twitter because it represents some of the loudest people in talking about in the current cancel culture.

That may be true of other attractions but this is the first major attraction to be scrapped because of racial issues. They were just holding onto Splash as long as they could. The last wave of protests were just bigger and broader than ever before and they proved to be Splash Mountains death knell.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Song of the South is banned in the United States, in the sense that one cannot buy it officially anywhere. This is a fact. And yes, they refuse to acknowledge it. They were more open about it when the film first released, but nowadays? It’s different. They don’t like to talk about it.

That doesn't make it a "banning" just because you can't purchase it. Disney decided not to release it on any current format. Which is their call but its not banned. They never refused to acknowledge it. They openly talk about the movie on any Splash related making of material. They even released songs from the film on sing a long vhs tapes in the 90's, So you are not being accurate. People today want to act like its this deep dark Disney secret which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[October82]

When I say twitter, I'm not literally only talking about Twitter. I say Twitter because it represents some of the loudest people in talking about in the current cancel culture.

That may be true of other attractions but this is the first major attraction to be scrapped because of racial issues. They were just holding onto Splash as long as they could. The last wave of protests were just bigger and broader than ever before and they proved to be Splash Mountains death knell.

Splash was going away regardless of the present social-political climate. Disney really isn't spending the kind of money required to redo an attraction over an issue with no resonance outside of Disney fan circles who know the Song of the South connection. I'd actually like to believe Disney cares about racial justice, but I don't believe they do. I think the MBAs in Burbank care about $$$, and the Splash redo just fits with everything else they've done to a T.

Media/internet narratives about how companies make decisions just don't reflect what accountants and C-suite types care about.