Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[PiratesMansion]

People will go out of there way to prove how racist it is so that it can be “Disney’s Dark Moment”, when it’s really a pretty harmless film. Will it offend some people? Well that’s the issue. If it didn’t have this reputation of how “racist” it was, it probably wouldn’t offend that many. But word gets around, and people are told how offensive it is. It’s kinda hard to come to your own conclusion when the film isn’t in circulation and you’re hearing negative things about it before you even lay eyes on it.

Exactly. It's not the most racist thing Disney has ever produced. But it does have problematic elements, and because the film wasn't available and the company tried to pretend it didn't exist, it became this big bad controversy, whereas no one seems to care about the worst of, say, Peter Pan.

 

[October82]

I can’t respond to the whole post right now as I have a 4 year old who really wants my attention so I’ll just respond to your first comment. All I meant to say was that I find you to be intelligent So it’s hard for me to believe you believe that. But that’s just my opinion.

Completely understand. I really respect your thoughts and what you bring to this community. This is an emotional topic for all of us that have a connection to the parks and their history, and that and everything else that is hard about debate on the internet can make conversation really difficult. This conversation is too close to being political to probably continue, but I'll end by saying I am not optimistic for a good attraction here and I am sad to see Disneyland lose the good stuff that Splash brings. I think most of us agree on those points.

 

[mickEblu]

It was an honorary Oscar that he won primarily because Walt campaigned for it. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't Ladeserve it, but it wasn't a competitive award.

Baskett was already in poor health when he was filming SOTS and died in 1948, but judging by what happened to Hattie McDaniel, who won Best Supporting Actress for GWTW and was the first African American to EVER win an Oscar, it did little to advance her career or give her any more opportunities than she had before the win. Hollywood didn't know what to do with her and wasn't super eager to let her branch out and try new things, and I'm not convinced it would have known what to do with Baskett either, had he lived.

So do you think either of them wish they hadn’t done it? I’d bet no.

Also type casting is still a thing today regardless of race.

Lastly, are you trying to spin an academy award as not being a positive?

 

[Brer Oswald]

Ah I see. I can understand that.

In the case of SOTS, it’s actually the opposite and I think that real life should count more. Baskett won an academy award for playing that part. I’m sure that advanced his life And he could care less about what what happened to Uncle Remus’ character but I could be wrong.

It probably would have, had he not sadly passed away just a few years after the film released.

 

[mickEblu]

Completely understand. I really respect your thoughts and what you bring to this community. This is an emotional topic for all of us that have a connection to the parks and their history, and that and everything else that is hard about debate on the internet can make conversation really difficult. This conversation is too close to being political to probably continue, but I'll end by saying I am not optimistic for a good attraction here and I am sad to see Disneyland lose the good stuff that Splash brings. I think most of us agree on those points.

Thank you and I also appreciate what you bring to this community.

Unfortunately, I’m also not optimistic but I think many people are which is... baffling considering Disney’s current track record.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

It was an honorary Oscar that he won primarily because Walt campaigned for it. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't deserve it, but it wasn't a competitive award.

Baskett was already in poor health when he was filming SOTS and died in 1948, but judging by what happened to Hattie McDaniel, who also appeared in SOTS after she had won Best Supporting Actress for GWTW and became the first African American to EVER win an Oscar, it did little to advance her career or give her any more opportunities than she had before the win. Hollywood didn't know what to do with her and wasn't super eager to let her branch out and try new things, and I'm not convinced it would have known what to do with Baskett either, had he lived.

Hollywood was hardly a progressive place in the 1940s.

It was the first time a black person won an academy award so that seems pretty progressive for me in the 1940's.

 

[PiratesMansion]

So do you think either of them wish they hadn’t done it? I’d bet no.

Also type casting is still a thing today regardless of race.

Lastly, are you trying to spin an academy award as not being a positive?

I mean, they needed the work, so no, it's not as if they regretted it. But what I'm saying is that it wasn't exactly something that opened more doors. At best, the doors stayed exactly where they had been before.

Not saying it's not positive, but it seems like more of a consolation prize than if he had won it competitively. Especially if they knew he was dying anyway.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It was an honorary Oscar that he won primarily because Walt campaigned for it. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't deserve it, but it wasn't a competitive award.

Baskett was already in poor health when he was filming SOTS and died in 1948, but judging by what happened to Hattie McDaniel, who also appeared in SOTS after she had won Best Supporting Actress for GWTW and became the first African American to EVER win an Oscar, it did little to advance her career or give her any more opportunities than she had before the win. Hollywood didn't know what to do with her and wasn't super eager to let her branch out and try new things, and I'm not convinced it would have known what to do with Baskett either, had he lived.

Hollywood was hardly a progressive place in the 1940s.

I forgot to mention McDaniel. She won an Oscar after Gone with the Wind and that was pretty much it for her.

 

[mickEblu]

It was an honorary award he was given, and he was given it right around the time he passed. He wasn't officially nominated for an Oscar and was not allowed to attend the film’s premiere. None of the black actors and actresses were.

Right but is an honorary award a bad thing though? It maddening that they weren’t allowed to the premiere but at the time it was still progress right?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I mean, they needed the work, so no, it's not as if they regretted it. But what I'm saying is that it wasn't exactly something that opened more doors. At best, the doors stayed exactly where they had been before.

Not saying it's not positive, but it seems like more of a consolation prize than if he had won it competitively. Especially if they knew he was dying anyway.

Yep. Like a pity award. It’s like when celebrities get honorary degrees.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Exactly. It's not the most racist thing Disney has ever produced. But it does have problematic elements, and because the film wasn't available and the company tried to pretend it didn't exist, it became this big bad controversy, whereas no one seems to care about the worst of, say, Peter Pan.

Peter Pan is my favourite Disney film. That sequence is by far worse than SotS as a whole. But there’s worst.

The most racist things that the company has put out (aside from War propaganda) all involve Mickey Mouse. Two cartoons, “Trader Mickey”, And “Mickey’s Man Friday”, as well as a follow up comic featuring the “Friday” character, as well as his brother “Thursday”. That comic is the absolute most cringeworthy, mocking, offensive depiction of a black person I’ve seen. They rereleased the Comic in the 2010s. They rereleased the cartoons in the early 2000s. Both with content warnings that frame the context and talk about the issues. Look it up if you get the chance.

The comic is called “An Education for Thursday” I believe.

 

[mickEblu]

I mean, they needed the work, so no, it's not as if they regretted it. But what I'm saying is that it wasn't exactly something that opened more doors. At best, the doors stayed exactly where they had been before.

Not saying it's not positive, but it seems like more of a consolation prize than if he had won it competitively. Especially if they knew he was dying anyway.

Still progress in those days though.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Still progress in those days though.

I guess, but a participation trophy is hardly something to celebrate, and that's basically what it was.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Right but is an honorary award a bad thing though? It maddening that they weren’t allowed to the premiere but at the time it was still progress right?

I wouldn’t call being barred from attending the premiere of your own film progress.

An honorary award is nowhere close to the prestige of actually being acknowledged and nominated for one’s performance. I wouldn’t call an honorary award progress either. But that’s just me.

 

[Brer Oswald]

It was an honorary award he was given, and he was given it right around the time he passed. He wasn't officially nominated for an Oscar and was not allowed to attend the film’s premiere. None of the black actors and actresses were.

People often bring that up as a point against the film. And as terrible as that was, wasn’t that just an oversight on blissfully ignorant Walt? Didn’t he set the premiere in Georgia for themeatic purposes, didn’t find out about the segregation laws there until it was too late, and then got P.O’d that he did the opening speech and left right away?

Again, it’s bad, but is it really a knock against the film? To me, it just shows how messed up the country and the state were at the time period.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Thank you and I also appreciate what you bring to this community.

Unfortunately, I’m also not optimistic but I think many people are which is... baffling considering Disney’s current track record.

Also baffling when you consider how gosh darn bad things are for Disneyland right now. Their planned reopen delayed indefinitely- and now with the state shutting down again I doubt TDA has any idea when they'll reopen. I can't imagine how bad things are internally down in Anaheim at the moment. So how are they gonna fund an overlay for one of their most popular rides?

 

[Brer Oswald]

I mean, they needed the work, so no, it's not as if they regretted it. But what I'm saying is that it wasn't exactly something that opened more doors. At best, the doors stayed exactly where they had been before.

Not saying it's not positive, but it seems like more of a consolation prize than if he had won it competitively. Especially if they knew he was dying anyway.

Snow White also got a “consolation prize”.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Yep. Like a pity award. It’s like when celebrities get honorary degrees.

Walt got that too! What’s with Disney and consolation prizes???

 

[SuddenStorm]

I wouldn’t call being barred from attending the premiere of your own film progress.

An honorary award is nowhere close to the prestige of actually being acknowledged and nominated for one’s performance. I wouldn’t call an honorary award progress either. But that’s just me.

It's my understanding that he wasn't banned from the premier, the theater enforced segregation (which is absolutely disgusting) and he would have had to sit in the balcony. So he chose not to attend- and I respect him for sticking up for himself.

Should Disney have hosted the premier at a theater the cast could attend with equal rights? Yes. But having an African American lead in a film in the 1940s has got to be at least somewhat of a bold move.

Two things can simultaneously be true- The treatment of the cast and the depiction of African Americans needed to be far better than it was, but the film was also a progressive piece for its time. It just wasn't progressive enough.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Snow White also got a “consolation prize”.

There's a difference between "this is so revolutionary that we want to go out of our way to honor it with something special" and "well, I guess Walt wants him to get an Oscar, and he'll die soon anyway, so why not?"