Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[mickEblu]

I don’t think one can truly remove Harris from the Brer characters. That connection will always be there. Disney doesn’t care about what people on Twitter think.

I’ve said this before, but Splash’s biggest issue and the cause of its downfall is its connection to Song of the South, a banned movie that Disney doesn’t want to acknowledge. The same cannot be said about any other Disney film that’s been released to theaters. There are issues we can pick out in other films, but they’re not banned. Also, the issues we find in said films are mainly specific scenes, while Song of the South is problematic from beginning to end, with the Magical Negro trope and other racist elements.

Right and I'm saying I think its a weak connection. Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox and Brer Bear have nothing to do with any racist issues in the live action elements of the film whose biggest crime is that it represents the reconstruction period in a happy way. Obviously Disney used to agree with me which is why the built the ride in 1989. Not the 50's mind you. Its just the loudest people our now complaining so they have to do something about it.

Of course lets not even mention the positives that came from SOTS which is the fact that it was the first time a Black actor won the academy award. Only negatives. We must now only dwell on the negatives now and get ed off about everything until we live in one big beige world like Galaxies Edge and nobody can have an accent like Rosita. What a boring, sterile and PC world.

What exact is Magical negroe?

 

[Californian Elitist]

That doesn't make it a "banning" just because you can't purchase it. Disney decided not to release it on any current format. Which is their call but its not banned. They never refused to acknowledge it. They openly talk about the movie on any Splash related making of material. They even released songs from the film on sing a long vhs tapes in the 90's, So you are not being accurate. People today want to act like its this deep dark Disney secret which couldn't be further from the truth.

The film is banned. Disney will not officially make it available to the public, and is therefore banned.

That was the 90s. I said nowadays, they don’t talk about the film. I am being accurate. The film is the black sheep of the library.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

The film is banned. Disney will not officially make it available to the public, and is therefore banned.

That was the 90s. I said nowadays, they don’t talk about the film. I am being accurate. The film is the black sheep of the library.

Again that is not a banning. Not like if they chose to put it on Disney Plus today you could be arrested for seeing it. Disney has never shied away from the film's existence or not been forth coming when it comes to acknowledging the characters on the ride and songs come from Song of the South. They have always been open about that.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Right and I'm saying I think its a weak connection. Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox and Brer Bear have nothing to do with any racist issues in the live action elements of the film whose biggest crime is that it represents the reconstruction period in a happy way. Obviously Disney used to agree with me which is why the built the ride in 1989. Not the 50's mind you. Its just the loudest people our now complaining so they have to do something about it.

Of course lets not even mention the positives that came from SOTS which is the fact that it was the first time a Black actor won the academy award. Only negatives. We must now only dwell on the negatives now and get ****ed off about everything until we live in one big beige world like Galaxies Edge and nobody can have an accent like Rosita. What a boring, sterile and PC world.

What exact is Magical negroe?

Magical Negro - TV Tropes

A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged …

tvtropes.org

 

[SuddenStorm]

Disney's 'banning' of Song of the South is the most laughably weak 'ban' in the history of film. Google 'Song of the South HD' and one of the top results is a beautifully restored 720p 35mm color corrected scan of the film. Key songs have been released on multiple Disney music CDs, and clips from the film have been used in multiple sing along VHS tapes and other Disney media. The characters have also been used regularly in the parks, as recently as a couple years ago.

If Disney actually cared, they would be trying a lot harder to make the film actually be, you know, banned and not easily accessibly to anyone with an internet connection for free. You don't even have to torrent it- it's just sitting there waiting to be streamed on the first page of Google search results. In this case Disney's getting to have their cake and eat it to- anyone that wants to watch it can, and anyone that doesn't can say 'it's banned so I can't watch it' and move on with their day.

Splash Mountain differs from the source IP enough that it should almost be considered a separate entity and a separate telling of the Brer Rabbit story. If elements of it are offensive (the Uncle Remus quotes in the queue, some of the voice acting are the most frequently cited elements) revisions could be made to the existing attraction to make it more faithful to the original African folklore and also further distance it from it's loose connection to Song of the South. Literally the only similarities are some of the character designs, and some of the instrumental songs- even the sung songs have different lyrics in a lot of cases. Disneyland's Splash isn't exactly known for it's strong linear storytelling, so it isn't even a detailed recreation of the film like, say, the Florida one or a ride like Ariel's Undersea Adventure.

There are Mickey cartoons that have not aged well and feature stereotypes that aren't acceptable now, and weren't then. Should we erase Mickey? Or acknowledge that the character has moved beyond these roots? The Brer Characters and Splash Mountain are the same way.

I also stand by my belief that a rushed low budget overlay is not the proper way to add inclusion into the parks- it's disrespectful to Princess and the Frog fans who deserve a far better implementation of their IP.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Again that is not a banning. Not like if they chose to put it on Disney Plus today you could be arrested for seeing it. Disney has never shied away from the film's existence or not been forth coming when it comes to acknowledging the characters on the ride and songs come from Song of the South. They have always been open about that.

Something that is banned doesn’t mean it’s illegal. There are banned books in classrooms. That doesn’t mean reading them is punishable.

My favorite book of all time is a notoriously banned book. It is banned in the sense that it is not commonly read in classrooms and some teachers refuse to teach it.

 

[mickEblu]

Splash was going away regardless of the present social-political climate. Disney really isn't spending the kind of money required to redo an attraction over an issue with no resonance outside of Disney fan circles who know the Song of the South connection. I'd actually like to believe Disney cares about racial justice, but I don't believe they do. I think the MBAs in Burbank care about $$$, and the Splash redo just fits with everything else they've done to a T.

Media/internet narratives about how companies make decisions just don't reflect what accountants and C-suite types care about.

They don't care about social justice, they care about the economic fallout from the "socially just." Sorry but to say Splash was going away regardless of the socio-political climate is really disingenuous. I know you don't really believe that though. It is one of the most popular attractions of all time. They weren't spending the money to re-do this ride anytime soon unless they absolutely had to. the connection to SOTS and the current socio-political climate are 100% the driver of this change.

You think they really care about a few broken AA's and fixing them from time to time? I mean ya, they care about "show" still, not as much as they did before but that's by no means the driver of this change.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Well, this thread's getting moved.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Something that is banned doesn’t mean it’s illegal. There are banned books in classrooms. That doesn’t mean reading them is punishable.

We are arguing over semantics at this point. We both agree the film is not legally available on any current modern format for home entertainment. The point I was making is Disney has openly acknowledged the ride's connection to the film and never hid from that fact nor have they never not acknowledged the film's existence. That was my point.

 

[mickEblu]

Magical Negro - TV Tropes

A minority character will step forward to help the protagonist, with their pure heart and folksy wisdom, and possibly magic. They are usually black, but may come from another oppressed minority. They step into the life of the much more privileged …

tvtropes.org

I figured it was something like that. I guess I don't see why enriching someones life and being magical is a bad thing unless its so repetitive and the only way a certain race or culture is represented then I guess it can be annoying.

 

[Californian Elitist]

We both agree the film is not legally available on any current modern format for home entertainment.

Lovely.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Disney's 'banning' of Song of the South is the most laughably weak 'ban' in the history of film. Google 'Song of the South HD' and one of the top results is a beautifully restored 720p 35mm color corrected scan of the film. Key songs have been released on multiple Disney music CDs, and clips from the film have been used in multiple sing along VHS tapes and other Disney media. The characters have also been used regularly in the parks, as recently as a couple years ago.

If Disney actually cared, they would be trying a lot harder to make the film actually be, you know, banned and not easily accessibly to anyone with an internet connection for free. You don't even have to torrent it- it's just sitting there waiting to be streamed on the first page of Google search results. In this case Disney's getting to have their cake and eat it to- anyone that wants to watch it can, and anyone that doesn't can say 'it's banned so I can't watch it' and move on with their day.

Splash Mountain differs from the source IP enough that it should almost be considered a separate entity and a separate telling of the Brer Rabbit story. If elements of it are offensive (the Uncle Remus quotes in the queue, some of the voice acting are the most frequently cited elements) revisions could be made to the existing attraction to make it more faithful to the original African folklore and also further distance it from it's loose connection to Song of the South. Literally the only similarities are some of the character designs, and some of the instrumental songs- even the sung songs have different lyrics in a lot of cases. Disneyland's Splash isn't exactly known for it's strong linear storytelling, so it isn't even a detailed recreation of the film like, say, the Florida one or a ride like Ariel's Undersea Adventure.

There are Mickey cartoons that have not aged well and feature stereotypes that aren't acceptable now, and weren't then. Should we erase Mickey? Or acknowledge that the character has moved beyond these roots? The Brer Characters and Splash Mountain are the same way.

I also stand by my belief that a rushed low budget overlay is not the proper way to add inclusion into the parks- it's disrespectful to Princess and the Frog fans who deserve a far better implementation of their IP.

Beautifully said.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I figured it was something like that. I guess I don't see why enriching someones life and being magical is a bad thing unless its so repetitive and the only way a certain race or culture is represented then I guess it can be annoying.

It’s problematic because we see white characters with flaws progress anyway with the help of the poor and wise negro or negress, all while the poor and wise negro or negress doesn’t budge from their social status.

 

[mickEblu]

It’s problematic because we see white characters with flaws progress anyway with the help of the poor and wise negro or negress, all while the poor and wise negro or negress doesn’t budge from their social status.

Ah I see. I can understand that.

In the case of SOTS, it’s actually the opposite and I think that real life should count more. Baskett won an academy award for playing that part. I’m sure that advanced his life And he could care less about what what happened to Uncle Remus’ character but I could be wrong.

 

[October82]

They don't care about social justice, they care about the economic fallout from the "socially just." Sorry but to say Splash was going away regardless of the socio-political climate is really disingenuous. I know you don't really believe that though.

Hmm... for the record, of course I believe what I say I do. Just as I assume you believe the things you say you do. I don't think you're some closet defender of Song of the South's legacy covering it with disingenuous love of Splash Mountain. I think you love the history of Disneyland and the experiences that Disney used to value. Just like I do. I'm not looking forward to another book report Princess attraction any more than you are.

And seriously, what on earth do any of us gain by lying on the internet? What I'm saying is that the Splash redo fits with the pattern that Disney has been clear about and repeated many times over the last decade. There's nothing new or special about Splash mountain, and acting like some random twitter thing matters to Disney or represents some nebulous "cancel culture" just doesn't reflect reality. You should be angry about Splash going away. I am too. It just doesn't have anything to do with racial justice, and acting like it does really minimizes the real issues that we can all talk about in the politics forum sometime.

It is one of the most popular attractions of all time. They weren't spending the money to re-do this ride anytime soon unless they absolutely had to. the connection to SOTS and the current socio-political climate are 100% the driver of this change.

Every attraction needs major refurbishment work. Rides all have finite lifespans. And if you don't update them with new IP, doing this work isn't lucrative. This is the pattern of what "investment" has meant to Burbank for the last decade. So Disney can spend $50 million (totally made up number) or whatever to do basic maintenance, or they can spend another $25 million on a new theme and get another $50 million in gate clicks and merchandise sold for their trouble.

$$$ is what drives companies like Disney, even when they get the side benefit of (perceived) good PR.

You think they really care about a few broken AA's and fixing them from time to time? I mean ya, they care about "show" still, not as much as they did before but that's by no means the driver of this change.

It's not about "show". We care about "show", Disney doesn't. Hence why Disney is going to slap a new marketable IP on an attraction when they do routine updates and maintenance that is required to keep the thing open.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Only thing Song of the South has connected to Splash is the animated characters and the songs. Splash stands as its own thing at this point and has for decades now. There is nothing racist about the ride itself. Not one actual thing. Even if you think the movie is, the ride is soo different and tells the story of Br'er Rabbit soo different from the movie its more of a re-telling than bringing the scenes of the movie to life.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Ah I see. I can understand that.

In the case of SOTS, it’s actually the opposite and I think that real life should count more. Baskett won an academy award for playing that part. I’m sure that advanced his life And he could care less about what what happened to Uncle Remus’ character but I could be wrong.

It was an honorary Oscar that he won primarily because Walt campaigned for it. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't deserve it, but it wasn't a competitive award.

Baskett was already in poor health when he was filming SOTS and died in 1948, but judging by what happened to Hattie McDaniel, who also appeared in SOTS after she had won Best Supporting Actress for GWTW and became the first African American to EVER win an Oscar, it did little to advance her career or give her any more opportunities than she had before the win. Hollywood didn't know what to do with her and wasn't super eager to let her branch out and try new things, and I'm not convinced it would have known what to do with Baskett either, had he lived.

Hollywood was hardly a progressive place in the 1940s.

 

[mickEblu]

Hmm... for the record, of course I believe what I say I do. Just as I assume you believe the things you say you do. I don't think you're some closet defender of Song of the South's legacy covering it with disingenuous love of Splash Mountain. I think you love the history of Disneyland and the experiences that Disney used to value. Just like I do. I'm not looking forward to another book report Princess attraction any more than you are.

And seriously, what on earth do any of us gain by lying on the internet? What I'm saying is that the Splash redo fits with the pattern that Disney has been clear about and repeated many times over the last decade. There's nothing new or special about Splash mountain, and acting like some random twitter thing matters to Disney or represents some nebulous "cancel culture" just doesn't reflect reality. You should be angry about Splash going away. I am too. It just doesn't have anything to do with racial justice, and acting like it does really minimizes the real issues that we can all talk about in the politics forum sometime.



Every attraction needs major refurbishment work. Rides all have finite lifespans. And if you don't update them with new IP, doing this work isn't lucrative. This is the pattern of what "investment" has meant to Burbank for the last decade. So Disney can spend $50 million (totally made up number) or whatever to do basic maintenance, or they can spend another $25 million on a new theme and get another $50 million in gate clicks and merchandise sold for their trouble.

$$$ is what drives companies like Disney, even when they get the side benefit of (perceived) good PR.



It's not about "show". We care about "show", Disney doesn't. Hence why Disney is going to slap a new marketable IP on an attraction when they do routine updates and maintenance that is required to keep the thing open.

I can’t respond to the whole post right now as I have a 4 year old who really wants my attention so I’ll just respond to your first comment. All I meant to say was that I find you to be intelligent So it’s hard for me to believe you believe that. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Brer Oswald]

That doesn't make it a "banning" just because you can't purchase it. Disney decided not to release it on any current format. Which is their call but its not banned. They never refused to acknowledge it. They openly talk about the movie on any Splash related making of material. They even released songs from the film on sing a long vhs tapes in the 90's, So you are not being accurate. People today want to act like its this deep dark Disney secret which couldn't be further from the truth.

People will go out of there way to prove how racist it is so that it can be “Disney’s Dark Moment”, when it’s really a pretty harmless film. Will it offend some people? Well that’s the issue. If it didn’t have this reputation of how “racist” it was, it probably wouldn’t offend that many. But word gets around, and people are told how offensive it is. It’s kinda hard to come to your own conclusion when the film isn’t in circulation and you’re hearing negative things about it before you even lay eyes on it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Ah I see. I can understand that.

In the case of SOTS, it’s actually the opposite and I think that real life should count more. Baskett won an academy award for playing that part. I’m sure that advanced his life And he could care less about what what happened to Uncle Remus’ character but I could be wrong.

It was an honorary award he was given, and he was given it right around the time he passed. He wasn't officially nominated for an Oscar and was not allowed to attend the film’s premiere. None of the black actors and actresses were.