Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I’ve said it before, but I’m truly sorry for those of you who are so sad to see the Song of the South characters go. It can be very difficult to lose things that you love.

and America Sings characters by the legendary Marc Davis whose contributions to the park are slowing being taken away. Splash was a 2nd chance at life for those characters only now to be lost to time again

 

[Dr.Cheeto]

and America Sings characters by the legendary Marc Davis whose contributions to the park are slowing being taken away. Splash was a 2nd chance at life for those characters only now to be lost to time again

Wasn’t Marc Davis upset over the removal of America Sings and the repurposing of his AS figures into Splash Mountain? Id be sad if they remove his figures from Splash too, but I guess you could argue that he already felt like his work was disrespected by other imagineers with the construction of Splash back in the 80’s (his thoughts not mine).

I still have my hopes up that Disney keep as many of the original figures as they can, and only replace the Brer Fox, Bear and Rabbit AA’s. It would make sense financially for them, and please us fans. As for the America Sings figures not having any continuity with PATF, nobody batted an eye when anthropomorphic chickens, storks, and pigs were featured on a Song of the South ride, even though they never appeared in the film... Just have them all be Louis the Alligator’s swamp friends!

To me, the Guardians of the Galaxy TOT re-theme still seems more offensive than this one. I’m glad the theme is being replaced with another hand drawn Disney film - a throwback to the types of films the company used to make. Whether or not you think Princess and the Frog is a good movie, Song of the South has never been released on home video in the US, most people haven’t seen it all the way through, and yet the ride is still a beloved classic. I think this re-theme has the potential to be good too. Of course, it will all be in the execution.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

It is discussions like this that reveal the limitations of the written word. Without voice tone and inflection and actual face to face interaction, it’s easier to assume anger or hostility instead of honest questions and answers. My bet is most all of these conversations would be easier in person because as discussion boards go, these are among the friendliest and most respectful.

 

[el_super]

Yeah, they're at fault, too. Chambers was hardly the first guy to come up with the idea of a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain, so why did he get so much publicity over his idea?

It doesn't matter and any answer here is just feeding into this crazy conspiracy theory of yours.

Disney announced a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain (despite the fact that they ignored the film for years and brushed it off as a flop) after people demanded a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain. Forgive me for not assuming it's just a coincidence.

It's not just a coincidence but the most obvious answer was posted PAGES ago: Disney was forced to announce the plans because of legal considerations over the originality of the idea, after this fan idea started to get attention. The longer they let it go, they better case someone would be able to bring against Disney for basically stealing the idea. It would look really bad.

But rest assured that Disney would not have announced it, unless they had some proof or evidence they could take to trial to show that they independently came up with the idea prior to the posting on the internet. Sure, it may have just been an email or a memo, but that would be enough to prove they came up with the idea independently.

No conspiracy necessary.

How about when I posted my idea for a separate Princess and the Frog ride that didn't replace Splash Mountain and everyone went "nope, sorry, Splash Mountain still has to go"?

Because you are ignoring the simple premise that this new ride is being developed to replace Splash Mountain.

I recall someone (I think in another thread) claiming that I couldn't see that Splash Mountain was racist because of my "white privilege" or whatever. You all immediately brush off my suggesting that this is because of the petitions as "whacked out conspiracy theories". We have no proof that Disney's telling the truth about the idea already being in the works for a year.

Disney wouldn't announce a concept such as this, unless they were prepared, in court, to show that they created the concept of this ride independently from any unsolicited creative ideas being posted on the internet. If they didn't, the original creators could sue for millions. Knowing that, and knowing how WDI works, should be enough to convince you that they came up with the idea well over a year ago.

Continually suggesting that some internet mob was out to get Splash Mountain doesn't accomplish anything. People can effect change through social commentary. People want Splash Mountain gone.

I am not suggesting that we lynch Frederick Chambers. But it strikes me as hypocritical that you would claim to like Splash Mountain. And from this very site, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook, I can tell you that this is indeed a "you're either with us or against us" movement.

It's not hypocritical and it's not an either/or fallacy. People can have a varying degree of emotions and feelings and are more than capable of having more than one feeling at the same time. You can look back at the memories you had of the ride with fondness, and also be ready for a change.

There's lots of arguing, feuding, and insulting about Splash Mountain. Threads about this and the Jungle Cruise changes are hard to read because they're just page after page of "This isn't racist!" "Yes it is, and if you don't see how it's racist, you're an idiot!" over and over again.

Yeah.... people are offended at the existence of the ride and some even think it's racist. But continually screaming "no it's not" just makes you as guilty as those you are claiming are not listening to you. There is page after page of people explaining, quite clearly, their thoughts on this ride, on the connections to racism and reasons why it has to be removed, and you are still refusing to accept or listen to them.

I want to believe that the gymnastics occurring here are a desperate attempt to reconcile a strong affection for the ride, and a desire to NOT be considered racist, which if sincere, is still a better position to be in than those that want to see it stay BECAUSE of the offensiveness. It will ultimately be up to you, how you end up coping with this change, but honestly realizing that something you do or like is offensive and learning to apologize for it and move on is just part of being an adult.

Blaming some poor kid on the internet isn't the answer.

 

[el_super]

Wasn’t Marc Davis upset over the removal of America Sings and the repurposing of his AS figures into Splash Mountain? Id be sad if they remove his figures from Splash too, but I guess you could argue that he already felt like his work was disrespected by other imagineers with the construction of Splash back in the 80’s (his thoughts not mine).

Yeah... that's the story. Supposedly the whole show (America Sings) was going to be packed up and moved to Tokyo, but someone in WDI had the sets destroyed in a desperate attempt to further their career.

I still have my hopes up that Disney keep as many of the original figures as they can, and only replace the Brer Fox, Bear and Rabbit AA’s. It would make sense financially for them, and please us fans. As for the America Sings figures not having any continuity with PATF, nobody batted an eye when anthropomorphic chickens, storks, and pigs were featured on a Song of the South ride, even though they never appeared in the film... Just have them all be Louis the Alligator’s swamp friends!

Personally, I don't get the appeal or attachment to the animatronics. They're classic for sure, and it's a shame that they can't be setup in a museum or some other exhibit. The idea though, of basing an actual theme park attraction around them just seems so archaic at this point.

I don't really know how I would feel if they did stick around in the PatF re-theme, since they seem so tonally different from the rest of that movie. I generally think it would mostly detract from the new ride if they stayed.

To me, the Guardians of the Galaxy TOT re-theme still seems more offensive than this one. I’m glad the theme is being replaced with another hand drawn Disney film - a throwback to the types of films the company used to make. Whether or not you think Princess and the Frog is a good movie, Song of the South has never been released on home video in the US, most people haven’t seen it all the way through, and yet the ride is still a beloved classic. I think this re-theme has the potential to be good too. Of course, it will all be in the execution.

It is a good movie, and it definitely deserves an attraction. The new attraction will probably be pretty good, despite how difficult it will be to keep nostalgia from tainting the experience.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Personally, I don't get the appeal or attachment to the animatronics. They're classic for sure, and it's a shame that they can't be setup in a museum or some other exhibit. The idea though, of basing an actual theme park attraction around them just seems so archaic at this point.

I don't really know how I would feel if they did stick around in the PatF re-theme, since they seem so tonally different from the rest of that movie. I generally think it would mostly detract from the new ride if they stayed.

Because otherwise there's no chance that modern Disney is going to invest money into a 50+ animatronic cast even for just one of the parks. Sinbad in Tokyo Disney Sea from over 20 years ago was really the last time that happened.

 

[disneyC97]

Actually Disney already created a walkaround version of Uncle Remus at the Disney Parks (but for a very brief period). For evidence, here's a video of the "Disneyland Christmas Parade" taken sometime between 1978 - 1983 where Uncle Remus is spotted riding with Brer Rabbit on a wagon. (Skip to 19:52 mark where the "Song of The South" section is present). I believe this was taken in 1980 since Herbie was present to promote "Herbie Goes Bananas".


Screenshots encase the video gets deleted.

Apparently this was one of his only appearances the Disney Parks.

There was also a re-release of SotS in theaters in 80/81…I remember seeing it in a double-feature with “Condorman.” SotS was last re-released in US theaters in 1986.

 

[el_super]

Because otherwise there's no chance that modern Disney is going to invest money into a 50+ animatronic cast even for just one of the parks. Sinbad in Tokyo Disney Sea from over 20 years ago was really the last time that happened.

Yeah but that's what I'm saying: They don't need to have AA's anymore. At least not in that style/fashion. These things have been around for almost 60 years now. I am not going to be impressed by their mere presence, nor will I be hurt by their absence. If they had a good logical story point that required AA's in that matter, than sure keep them. But there's no point in trying to hold onto the Splash AA's just for nostalgia. I think that overall it would hurt the story they are trying to tell.

Sinbad was a cute ride though, but in a more modern styling, it was mostly based on characterization than setting.

 

[DavidDL]

I'll always prefer animatronics to screens and the like. Whether or not Splash's exact previous animatronics should or need to be incorporated is debatable depending on what they're looking to go for inside the new overlay. But whether they use those animatronics or new ones, I would still prefer to see actual, physical figures of whatever characters they decide to go with.

The reality of characters actually being physically present around you, is unmatchable unless under very specific circumstances or with incompatible ride systems. I understand that with certain attractions and with certain, "impossible" moments that physical characters and sets won't always be appropriate but I think the PatF overlay should definitely use actual figures, everywhere feasibly possible.

 

[el_super]

The reality of characters actually being physically present around you, is unmatchable unless under very specific circumstances or with incompatible ride systems. I understand that with certain attractions and with certain, "impossible" moments that physical characters and sets won't always be appropriate but I think the PatF overlay should definitely use actual figures, everywhere feasibly possible.

I could see Tiana and Naveen... maybe Luis as physical figures, but even as I think about it, the idea of characters just standing there blankly talking to the audience (as seen on Mermaid or Frozen) is just awkward.

 

[mickEblu]

I could see Tiana and Naveen... maybe Luis as physical figures, but even as I think about it, the idea of characters just standing there blankly talking to the audience (as seen on Mermaid or Frozen) is just awkward.

Maybe Louis? No offense but stick to your day job my man.

 

[el_super]

Maybe Louis? No offense but stick to your day job my man.

What a silly thing to say. AA's are not a requirement for an attraction to be successful. Louis as an AA would either be incredibly expensive to produce, or never look as fluid and life-like as animation on a screen.

 

[Dr.Cheeto]

What a silly thing to say. AA's are not a requirement for an attraction to be successful. Louis as an AA would either be incredibly expensive to produce, or never look as fluid and life-like as animation on a screen.

Yes, animatronics will never move like a Tex Avery cartoon from the 40's. All of the Brer Bear figures on Splash are in a static pose and probably only require one mechanism for movement (Up/down in the first scene, rotate at the base in the bee scene, etc). Most animatronics are designed with only very few possible movements. These limitations don't take away from the ride- especially when your log passes them at the speed they do. It is true that these anthropomorphic characters are more forgiving that human figures though. I don't think they would be able to get away with similar limited motion if they were to include human Tiana AA's.

 

[DavidDL]

I could see Tiana and Naveen... maybe Louis as physical figures, but even as I think about it, the idea of characters just standing there blankly talking to the audience (as seen on Mermaid or Frozen) is just awkward.

For starters, you and I are simply going to have to agree to disagree with what constitutes as awkward, lesser or greater ride experiences. Provided those characters you listed are doing something that AA versions of themselves are capable of doing, I would like to see practical versions of themselves doing it. Like I've said, to me, nothing beats having the characters actually there, in reality, with you and I would die on that hill. It's why I think the practical figure shots of the T-Rex from the first Jurassic Park still look better today than the CGI shots of more recent films. Because it's actually there and we as an audience know it. If you disagree with that notion, then you and I will simply just need to shake hands and move along.

But Disney knows how to build good AAs and continues to do so to this day. -and they should, because Guests are paying a premium to experience their parks. They should get the premium experience. Sure, AAs are more expensive but ya know what? Disney is more expensive for them, too. Going above and beyond to make something worth their while I think is a good business practice, though it admittedly becomes more rare in all things as time goes on.

That isn't to say uncanny valley or awkward-ness can't be a thing. I guess it's largely up to your discretion. Do I think most of the static fish figures in Mermaid are awkwardly or poorly presented? Sure, I do. But figures like Ursula from that same attraction or Olaf from Frozen's, I think are great.

I don't know what Disney's intention in terms of storytelling is going to be with the Splash Mountain overlay but that will certainly factor into the execution of them. As @norcal1219 pointed out, it will depend on whatever the storyline calls for. Splash's key character figures aren't the most advanced but they do what needs to be done in a way that's enjoyable (when they are working) and get the point across as the log travels past them.

-and if at some point, the storyline calls for the characters to be "standing there blankly" while talking to us, I fail to see how them doing so in person is any more awkward than them doing so via video screen. But that's just me. It's all in the execution. You have to remember that an attraction like Mermaid is meant to be directly presented to us as a story from Scuttle. In this way, it's sort of a "meta-book-report"-style ride because it's literally being book-reported to us. The AAs that fill the attraction and the way they interact (or don't) with us are a reflection of that. With current Splash, we're just sort of along for the ride passing by show scenes of events unfolding with the characters. If PatF does something similar, you may not have to worry about the AAs "standing there blankly" towards you because the figures will be off in their own world, having their own experiences as our ride happens around them.

Or maybe not. Maybe we'll be more directly involved. We'll see. In either case, me getting a thank you from a Tiana AA is preferable to her thanking me via video screen. Unless the storyline calls for her to constantly be changing back and forth between human and frog during that moment, which leads me to my next point:

... AA's are not a requirement for an attraction to be successful. Louis as an AA would either be incredibly expensive to produce, or never look as fluid and life-like as animation on a screen.

I'm not sure I follow the logic with "expensive" being used as a reason to deliver a lesser product or experience, especially when Disney has proven time and time again that they have no issue doing it. A Louis AA with trumpet in hand I really don't see being any more difficult to create than Ursula over in Little Mermaid.

But make no mistake, the way I worded my comments was intentional. My comments about "impossible" moments and "when possible" should be taken into account here. I agree that, in general, when something becomes an unrealistic possibility, other avenues should be looked into. For example, Louis singing, talking to Guests or otherwise doing things that the range of motion an AA can achieve, should be delivered to Guests with an AA figure because it creates a better ride experience. However, let's say a scene calls for Louis' tail to be bit by another gator, Louis to jump into the air screaming, hit his head on a bayou branch and then start tumbling down a waterfall. That is a perfect example of a time where using something like screens or projections are not only understandable and logistical but also pretty much the only possible option as the alternative AA route would be nearly impossible to build and otherwise maintain.

No one questions why, for example, Universal didn't build actual, practical Transformers to transform in front of Guests and do the things they do on that attraction. Because that kind of tech doesn't exist and likely won't in our lifetimes. But if said tech was readily available and able to be both built and maintained at a price Universal knew was affordable, I would advocate for it over screens, in another lifetime.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I'll always prefer animatronics to screens and the like. Whether or not Splash's exact previous animatronics should or need to be incorporated is debatable depending on what they're looking to go for inside the new overlay. But whether they use those animatronics or new ones, I would still prefer to see actual, physical figures of whatever characters they decide to go with.

The reality of characters actually being physically present around you, is unmatchable unless under very specific circumstances or with incompatible ride systems. I understand that with certain attractions and with certain, "impossible" moments that physical characters and sets won't always be appropriate but I think the PatF overlay should definitely use actual figures, everywhere feasibly possible.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this sentiment, especially as someone who is currently restoring a 39 year old animatronic atm. I strongly believe they should reuse and preserve as many America Sings AAs as they can. No matter how amazing a screen is to me, I’ll always prefer AAs, because they’re physically with us in the real world.

 

[DavidDL]

Yeah, I definitely agree with this sentiment, especially as someone who is currently restoring a 39 year old animatronic atm. I strongly believe they should reuse and preserve as many America Sings AAs as they can. No matter how amazing a screen is to me, I’ll always prefer AAs, because they’re physically with us in the real world.

I'm 50/50 on this one. On one hand, yes, I think AAs should be used as much as realistically possible, where possible. That said, I guess I'm not entirely sure if the style of the figures that Splash currently has will mesh with the style PatF will want to present. PatF has big musical numbers with animals and lots of animals in general but they aren't dressed as people. I guess they could tweak the storyline to involve these figures singing some variation of "when we're human" in order to play up the gag that they're already trying to dress the part but it will all depend on what the new ride's storyline calls for.

I'm also not totally against screens, either. I think they can be used to compliment and add some extra life to scenes. But I think the two can be worked together. Of course on something like Forbidden Journey, when getting chased by a dragon it's going to be via screen but when finally confronted face to face, it's much more impactful to stare into the eyes of the real thing.

 

[Inspired Figment]

Supposedly the whole show (America Sings) was going to be packed up and moved to Tokyo, but someone in WDI had the sets destroyed in a desperate attempt to further their career.

Where did you hear this story, if you don’t mind me asking. Thanks

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Where did you hear this story, if you don’t mind me asking. Thanks

Less than 7 months before the original planned opening seems to be cutting it very close to figure out where you're getting 95% of your animatronic cast for a big E Ticket.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

AAs over screens? 99% of the time, I'd prefer that!

 

[Nland316]

Random and off topic — but I recently rewatched Fantastic Mr. Fox on D+ the other day.. and realized how much it would’ve fit this Splash Mountain retheme so much better. It easy would blend with the style of the Mark Davis animatronics and current Splash Mountain aesthetic. I know it’s not a Disney film Per say but still something that clicked in my head nonetheless!