Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

[milordsloth]

Parks in Sweden are and have been closed indefinitely. There is no timeline, plan or criteria for when they can reopen. That they would be closed now is irrelevant to the fact they were closed all summer and have not been told they may reopen in 2021. California, no matter how much you dislike it, has a plan with criteria for when parks can be open.

Please link me to Newsom's timeline for Disneyland to open. From what I've seen that doesn't exist. But if I want to ski or go wine tasting (which is what I'm doing up in Apple Hill right now), of course that is totally fine per science and data.

 

[el_super]

Please link me to Newsom's timeline for Disneyland to open. From what I've seen that doesn't exist. But if I want to ski or go wine tasting (which is what I'm doing up in Apple Hill right now) totally fine.

Theme parks can reopen when a county enters the yellow tier, when infections are less than 1 per 100,000 and tested positivity rate is less than 2%.

 

[milordsloth]

Theme parks can reopen when a county enters the yellow tier, when infections are less than 1 per 100,000 and tested positivity rate is less than 2%.

Wait, the tiers are still a thing? I thought we are in the 5 regions now

 

[el_super]

Wait, the tiers are still a thing? I thought we are in the 5 regions now

That is an emergency measure being implemented to control declining ICU capacity.

 

[milordsloth]

That is an emergency measure being implemented to control declining ICU capacity.

You have to admit the way the 5 regions were delineated is completely arbitrary. If wonderful Mono County up in the Sierras has no cases and San Diego is overloaded, boom lets just shut it down for everyone. No way people in far away counties can do their own risk assessment.

But to go back to the original point I responded to, comparing Swedish theme parks being closed to year-round global destination American theme parks being closed is ridiculous. Similar to comparing USA covid numbers to our New Zealand friends who live on a remote island.

The whole point is, wear a mask when appropriate. Distance when appropriate. Do not go to an indoor dinner at the French laundry when that is against the rules.

 

[Disney Irish]

"It is in fact well thought out,” said Dr. Lewis Kaplan, president of the National Society of Critical Care Medicine.

Kaplan said the virus doesn’t care about county lines, and hospitals don’t really work that way either.

"It makes sense in terms of how patients move," Kaplan said.

Hospitals move patients regionally based on trauma center and burn center hubs, according to Kaplan.

"When you think about COVID care, realize this virus has an impact on the entire body, from your nose to your toes," he said.
In other words, treatment can get complicated, and those complications mean moving patients across county lines.

Why The California Shutdown Is Divided By Regions Not Counties

Governor Gavin Newsom had dire words as he rolled out his new stay-at-home order Thursday. “Lives will be lost unless we do more than we’ve ever done,” said Newsom from his home where he is in quarantine. The governor enforced a stay at home order back in March, but this time, you may have...

www.nbcsandiego.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

But to go back to the original point I responded to, comparing Swedish theme parks being closed to year-round global destination American theme parks being closed is ridiculous. Similar to comparing USA covid numbers to our New Zealand friends who live on a remote island.

How is it ridiculous? The repeated claim is that Disneyland is closed purely due to the personal whim of Newsom. That somebody with a very different approach has made the same determination is either one heck of a coincidence or pretty good evidence that it’s not just a whim.

 

[TP2000]

Wait, the tiers are still a thing? I thought we are in the 5 regions now

You aren't going to believe this, but the official state website actually tries to explain that everything is all still in effect. I saw this last night as I was trying to understand it all, and I literally laughed out loud. This is what is currently still in effect, by date, and is the official mandate that all Californians are allegedly still doing;

Stay Home Order - March 19th, 2020 directed all Californians to "stay at home except to go to work or shop for essential needs."

Blueprint For A Safer Economy - August 28th, 2020 to permit "gradual reopening of certain businesses and activities."

Limited Stay At Home Order - November 21st, 2020 restricts Californians to "stop non-essential activities between 10pm and 5am." (This was the statewide curfew that Satin Topless on Ball Road continues to not obey)

Regional Stay At Home Order - December 3rd, 2020 "prohibits private gatherings of any size, closes business operations except for critical infrastructure and retail", and created out of thin air the Mono County Metro Area of 23 Million people that I now live in.

Officially, all four of those state orders are all still in place and their various mandates and guidance all overlap and demand compliance from all Californians. The official state website helpfully explaining that is here....

COVID-19 Home

covid19.ca.gov

As for me right now? I've gotta go make a Target Run! It is part of my critical infrastructure to get some of those cinnamon-fir scented pinecones that I like to place on end tables this time of year. I also want to look at phone cases, and hopefully find a Christmas doormat. Essential! Critical!

 

[el_super]

You have to admit the way the 5 regions were delineated is completely arbitrary.

Not really. It makes more sense that these counties would have easier access to emergency services in Victorville via 395 than crossing the sierras to get to Visalia, Fresno or Sacramento.

Additionally these counties have ICU capacity in the single digits and routinely transport their most ill patients to better equipped facilities.

 

[el_super]

In some places yes, and in other places no. I will only speak for Orange County as that's the place I am most familiar with, but at the beginning of Nov, the hospitalizations for COVID were around 180. Today it's reached 300. They have previously stated that the danger zone for hospitalizations in Orange County is around 750, and at this rate, that 300 will quickly become 600 before the end of November, and that will be without Thanksgiving being taken into account.

At the rate we are going, we will have no access to emergency health services in December.

Today, the COVID hospitalization rate hit 842. Yesterday, it exceeded the peak from July.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Exactly! It isn't a whim because its based purely on objective science and data which is why EVERY SINGLE governor in the United States is treating the amusement park industry exactly the same as Newsom and this is not a personal opinion, but a universal understanding of the science! There is no debate, it is the obvious fact.

Well, except for Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Hersheypark, Six Flags Over Texas, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, King's Dominion, Magic Kingdom, EPCOT, Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, Universal Orlando, Islands of Adventure, Legoland Florida, Busch Gardens Tampa, Sea World Orlando, oh wait.....

California is not the only state where parks were not allowed to reopen.

 

[TP2000]

I had a hunch yesterday that this was going to get good...

California chef Andrew Gruel refuses to close restaurants, calls Gov. Newsom an âaâholeâ

The readers of the New York Post aren’t the only people fed up with hypocritical politicians.

nypost.com

“We shut down indoor dining – no problem. I got a warehouse full of plexiglass right now. We went outdoors – now that’s getting shut down. I just put thousands of dollars into outdoor heaters.”

Gruel’s gripe stem from the lack of scientific evidence linking COVID-19 to outdoor dining.

“There is zero scientific evidence that outdoor dining is contributing to the rise in cases related to this,” he claimed, adding that he was frustrated because people are still allowed to shop or fly on airplanes (in enclosed spaces) but not eat outdoors while socially separating."

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I had a hunch yesterday that this was going to get good...

California chef Andrew Gruel refuses to close restaurants, calls Gov. Newsom an âaâholeâ

The readers of the New York Post aren’t the only people fed up with hypocritical politicians.

nypost.com

“We shut down indoor dining – no problem. I got a warehouse full of plexiglass right now. We went outdoors – now that’s getting shut down. I just put thousands of dollars into outdoor heaters.”

Gruel’s gripe stem from the lack of scientific evidence linking COVID-19 to outdoor dining.

“There is zero scientific evidence that outdoor dining is contributing to the rise in cases related to this,” he claimed, adding that he was frustrated because people are still allowed to shop or fly on airplanes (in enclosed spaces) but not eat outdoors while socially separating."

Hope he is prepared to be shut down by force then.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

I'm waiting to see what if any evidence LA County can provide this coming week to the judge that demanded it. If they do what they did this week and just kinda go "Well yeah, we like, used 'science'!" again, I garuntee you'll see a revolt of tons of restaurants all over the place.

 

[TP2000]

I'm waiting to see what if any evidence LA County can provide this coming week to the judge that demanded it. If they do what they did this week and just kinda go "Well yeah, we like, used 'science'!" again, I guarantee you'll see a revolt of tons of restaurants all over the place.

Governor Newsom was criticized yesterday for avoiding that same question asked by a lady reporter from the Associated Press.

Associated Press Reporter: "You and the state and the counties have been tightening restrictions for weeks now, yet cases are continuing to go up, so how do you ensure that putting in place this order and shutting down more businesses doesn't just encourage more gatherings inside homes? What evidence do you have that shutting down things like barbershops is actually going to achieve what you want?"

Governor Newsom: "The evidence you ask? Very significant evidence, overwhelming evidence. And that's what we did by leading the nation as the first state with a stay-at-home order and we avoided the surge that many other states experienced, particularly larger states in that first wave. So we were able to bend the curve by using the same strategies, the same approaches of non-pharmaceutical interventions. So that's the evidence, and it was overwhelming."

Just like the LA County Board of Supervisors, Governor Newsom has not been able to point to any scientific evidence, not even so much as a single mention of a single study or single piece of data, that shows the scientific data they are using to make these decisions to close outdoor dining, barbershops, etc.

The Associated Press is not a right-wing outfit. They are not trying to be confrontational. They are just asking a basic question that too many journalists in the last six months have failed entirely to ask...

Where is the Science & Data you are using to make these decisions? Please show your work.

Re-read that response from Governor Newsom above just to understand what that "evidence" is. Apparently there's no such thing as footnotes or a bibliography any more, just blabber to run out the clock until a more sympathetic journalist can be chosen to ask what his favorite flavor of ice cream is.

Gavin Newsom sidesteps questions on whether data supports new business closures

Neither Newsom nor Ghaly directly answered a reporter's inquiry as to whether business...

www.sfgate.com

 

[TP2000]

By the way, I'm imagining that both Governor Newsom and Dr. Ghaly realize their non-answer answer about "the evidence" they both weakly puked up didn't fly with the press or the public.

And so their staffs are coming up with much better talking points before it gets asked again in a few days.

It will be interesting to see how their failed answer evolves next week. Along with whatever the LA County bigwigs can provide to the judge about all the Science & Data they've been using to make their decisions.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Governor Newsom: "The evidence you ask? Very significant evidence, overwhelming evidence.

That is not an answer.

 

[TP2000]

That is not an answer.

It is in Sacramento.

But yeah, I think the jig is up on the Science & Data thing now. Between the legal challenge to the fact LA County has no specific Science & Data to cite why they shut down outdoor dining and put 700,000 people out of work last week, and Governor Newsom's and Dr. Ghaly's complete inability to answer a very basic question from the Associated Press about what Science & Data they've been using... it's now clearly obvious there is no actual evidence to offer.

This won't go away, and more journalists will ask this same basic question on Monday. But you can darn well bet that some communications teams in Sacramento and LA are burning the midnight oil this weekend to quickly come up with some Science & Data before Monday, and get Newsom and Ghaly better talking points.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, and what proof they have that they actually used that data since they were entirely unable to reference it last week when they were first asked.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

It is in Sacramento.

It was just dancing around the question. They wanted specific examples of evidence. How did the press not press him harder on that? TRUMP they grill all day and night but why is that not being applied to Fuhrer Newsom?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Outdoor dining closed - Movie production outdoor dining opened right next door

Here is the link

So, you see. There are differences.

The Bar & Grill owner has people from different households coming to her business hour by hour and day by day. That's the kind of situation that spreads COVID.

The production company has the same staff working with one another and then eating with one another with the same people every single day. You know, lunch break and dinner break.

And production companies have enacted strict almost-airtight bubbles of constant testing. And if one person has COVID, they shut down for two weeks. Every day there is a report of this movie or that series that has temporarily shut-down for two weeks because of a positive test. These strict protocols took a long time to enact and for everyone to sign off on and the state gives them permission to operate because of their restrictions.

The metaphor of "apples to oranges" couldn't be more apt. Only looking at it from the set-up of serving meals and ignore all the other differences is ignorant.

Oh. My. Gosh. This is absolutely heartbreaking! That poor businesswoman crying into the camera, on the verge of losing her business and everything she has worked for. To be met with an even bigger patio dining area that was approved because it's for a movie production?

I think it's fairly obvious that honest, hard working people are fed up.

You can't just keep pushing the little folks around like this any more.

I'd find your performance of compassion compelling if it wasn't for your constant and distinctly lack of compassion for those who've gotten sick and/or died from COVID and their families.

But go ahead and post your twentieth repeated post of Newsom's hypocritical meal. Maybe the twenty-first time will be the one in which we all see the light and realize that COVID being the number one cause of death isn't to be worried about because of a hypocritical politician.

Oh yeah, you were the one who once were on the "but there are so more many other deadly things, like car accidents and heart disease!"

Guess who's the number one killer now? You'll have to strike that one of your repeat play list.

COVID-19 was the leading cause of death in the U.S. this week, report says

In the U.S., COVID-19 cases have surpassed 14.3 million, and more than 278,500 deaths have been recorded, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University.

www.cbsnews.com