Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Like they say, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, mock."

And those that can mock, do.





SORRY! I couldn't resist that line any more than Roger Rabbit can resist 'shave and a haircut'!

 

[TP2000]

Was Powell's affected by the riots? I hadn't heard that. How terribly sad. That's always been on my bucket list to visit!

Powell's was closed from May 30th to October 30th because of the riots. It reopened for limited on-site sales a few weeks ago. Luckily the store was unharmed (it's a National Treasure!), but that retail neighborhood directly around it just north of Burnside was heavily damaged and many stores are now shut permanently. That entire area called the Pearl District, which was such a sparkling gem of dining and retail and hipness for the past 20 years is now destroyed. Very little is still open, and it's simply not safe to drive your car downtown now because riots and vandalism can happen in downtown Portland at any time.

Portland's Pearl District, once a thriving hipster haven, now looks entirely like this in November, 2020.

Even the more established retail areas 10 blocks south of the Pearl District, around Nordstrom and the other big stores are all boarded up still. This is what the Apple Store in downtown Portland has looked like since early June, six months ago! The Apple Stores in suburban Portland are all still open, but the big flagship Apple Store downtown has been abandoned since being looted multiple times in early June; now covered in black plywood and covered in graffitti.

Even a wealthy company like Apple can only handle an expensive glassy pavilion like this being smashed and looted a few times, and after the third night of looting and destruction Apple and most other retailers just gave up on downtown Portland. It's very, very depressing to see what's happened to that once beautiful and sparkling city.

This video was taken in June, but it still looks just as abandoned and empty in November, but with more plywood on more closed businesses. Downtown Portland is like a scene from a disaster movie down there now!

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

The Pacific Northwest is at the top of my list of places in the USA to NEVER visit. What a freakshow.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

George, I will say, they have unbeatable forests, shoreline, and mountains... and those freaks in Portland and other places make some damned good food. Worth a visit if you turn your nose up.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Nope! Never!

 

[SoCalMort]

I've always been bad at math. Always. If it weren't for Google, I'd never even attempt to figure some of those percentages from the Science & Data that I've posted here.

No worries. There really isn't that much of difference from what we're each claiming. You're saying out of the 162 countries listed in the death stats you referenced below, when ordered from best to worst, we're at 158. MAGAnificent!

Deaths Per 1 Million Citizens as of 11/29/2020
Belgium = 1,448 Deaths Per 1 Million Belgians
Spain = 964 Deaths Per 1 Million Spaniards
Italy = 920 Deaths Per 1 Million Italians
United Kingdom = 879 Deaths Per 1 Million Britons
United States = 838 Deaths Per 1 Million Americans
France = 787 Deaths Per 1 Million Frenchmen

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

I'm saying were just 4 slots further down or, the way you've listed it, up the scale. That's a difference of only 2.4%.
4 divided by 162 x 100 {how you make something a percent} = 2.4%

But speaking of mocking, suddenly today there's a whole new rash of California politicians to mock when I issue my Official Statement of Clarification upon my return home from my Thanksgiving holiday.

I know! Once more, we're in agreement. Those those crazy two-faced politicians!! What ya gonna do?...

25 times Trump downplayed COVID-19 publicly after telling Bob Woodward on tape it was 'more deadly than strenuous flus'

The US has recorded the most COVID-19 cases and deaths in the world as President Donald Trump has consistently downplayed the threat to the public.

www.businessinsider.com

...Oops! Forgot. We decided that one about a month ago.

 

[TP2000]

Always got Trump on the mind, Trump Derangement Syndrome. Get the help you need.

I will say however, that news out of SoCal is getting interesting in various cities and local governments pushing back. The mayor of Whittier (a middle class suburb east of LA, Go Roadrunners!) said today he wants to secede from LA County's health authority and either join up with the City of Pasadena's health authority, or become a satellite city to Orange County and give Whittier's health authority to the more liberal OC politicians instead.

This is an attempt by Whittier, where Covid rates are very low and steady as they are in most middle to upper-middle class suburbs, to be able to reopen their restaurants for outdoor dining.

This is notable as more cracks show up in the system, and more mayors push back against their hypocritical LA County betters, and other SoCal counties and Sherriff's push back against their Sacramento betters.

Already basically every county Sherriff in SoCal has said they have no intention of policing any sort of curfew violations, and when Governor Newsom announces his Stay At Home Order 2: Electric Boogaloo tomorrow or Thursday those burly county Sherriff's in their starched uniforms and bristly mustaches (sorry, wrong website...) will also likely decline to police any new Sacramento orders for staying at home.

It makes you wonder how much further into 2021 we'll get before Orange County and the City of Anaheim with behind-the-curtain help from Burbank publicly push back on reopening Disneyland.

 

[Stevek]

The Pacific Northwest is at the top of my list of places in the USA to NEVER visit. What a freakshow.

Seattle is a beautiful city, really noticed nothing out of the ordinary...seemed like every other town. That being said, I was only there for 3 days.

 

[tirian]

I gave my estimate on when Disneyland would regain full capacity in the post you quoted- so of course I don't think Disneyland will never regain full capacity... 'like ever'.

In regards to the whole 'if people had just listened, this would all be over' attitude- by and large people do listen. And the virus still spreads. States that report higher then average mask use (like California)- still have the virus spreading at similar rates to those that don't. Because that's what viruses do. People have been saying that deflection since March when people did listen and hospitals across the country weren't overwhelmed like we were told to expect, and the goalposts moved for the first time.

There's not a chance Disneyland is open by March, let alone full capacity- and it has nothing to do with an 'inability to follow instructions'.

Let’s also consider Disney Parks capacity world-wide are based on how many people can stand in place, not whether they can actually walk, ride anything, or quickly exit in case of a disaster.

 

[SoCalMort]

Ah, it's okay. @SoCalMort does it with style and grace and good natured ribbing, so I never mind one bit.

Thank you and, so long as we're at it, I would like to compliment you on developing an entrancing voice and the lightning speed at which you write your responses. To be candid, I'm rather jealous of the latter.

It makes you wonder how much further into 2021 we'll get before Orange County and the City of Anaheim with behind-the-curtain help from Burbank publicly push back on reopening Disneyland.

I dunno but my $ is on sometime after this reopens (again)....

Hong Kong Disneyland to close again due to rising COVID-19 cases

The park will close for the third time due to COVID-19.

www.wdwmagic.com

...and this reopens (again)....

Second closure for Disneyland Paris due to COVID-19

Im seeing a lot of rumors saying it is.

forums.wdwmagic.com

..and this announcement made just minutes ago is lifted...

White House coronavirus task force warns states: 'We are in a very dangerous place'

The White House coronavirus task force issued extremely dire warnings to states in weekly reports this week, urging public health officials to circumvent state and local policies amid record high cases, hospitalizations and deaths, as well as fears of a surge upon a surge following Thanksgiving.

www.cnn.com

...but it could be sooner. After all, based on results, Disney's previous PR timing on D'land reopening has been spectacular and effective in swaying the public. And what better time for TWD to push than* in early winter 2021.

*word added in edit.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Let’s also consider Disney Parks capacity world-wide are based on how many people can stand in place, not whether they can actually walk, ride anything, or quickly exit in case of a disaster.

Is that true? I don't know enough about how the fire department sets capacity limits.

 

[tirian]

Is that true? I don't know enough about how the fire department sets capacity limits.

No, I’m joking about how outrageous Disney’s “capacities” are.

But if you’ve ever been in DL or the MK on a holiday, you know the maximum capacities are certainly not based on safety or quality-of-visit.

 

[SuddenStorm]

But if you’ve ever been in DL or the MK on a holiday, you know the maximum capacities are certainly not based on safety or quality-of-visit.

Of course, the safest park is a park that's completely empty- but it's my understanding that Disney has a fairly robust evacuation plan in case of evacuation. The main gate isn't the only exit- each land has multiple backstage access points, and I'm willing to make an educated guess that Disneyland, Anaheim PD, and Anaheim fire have coordinated in the best practice in case of emergency when the park is at capacity.

No disagreements on the 'quality of visit', but I'd hope anyone going to Disneyland on a holiday doesn't expect it to be like a Tuesday in May.

 

[Stevek]

Of course, the safest park is a park that's completely empty- but it's my understanding that Disney has a fairly robust evacuation plan in case of evacuation. The main gate isn't the only exit- each land has multiple backstage access points, and I'm willing to make an educated guess that Disneyland, Anaheim PD, and Anaheim fire have coordinated in the best practice in case of emergency when the park is at capacity.

No disagreements on the 'quality of visit', but I'd hope anyone going to Disneyland on a holiday doesn't expect it to be like a Tuesday in May.

Tuesday's in May are now busy...but yeah, not holiday busy.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Tuesday's in May are now busy...but yeah, not holiday busy.

Tuesday in May was pretty slow last year and this year...

 

[Travel Junkie]

When thinking about when Disneyland may return to full capacity, Dr. Fauci addressed when he believed Sports Stadiums would return to unrestricted capacity. He feels that the NBA finals in July 2021 would be perhaps too optimistic, but the start of the next NFL season is possible in September 2021. Again that was not partial capacity but full stadiums.

With that timetable in mind, it's possible we have a quick ramp up of DLR reopening late spring early summer and be close to or at full capacity around Halloween time 2021.

Obviously a lot has to happen between now and then.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is that true? I don't know enough about how the fire department sets capacity limits.

No, I’m joking about how outrageous Disney’s “capacities” are.

But if you’ve ever been in DL or the MK on a holiday, you know the maximum capacities are certainly not based on safety or quality-of-visit.

It actually is somewhat true. Building and fire codes regulate occupancy of buildings and generally do not regulate outdoor spaces. The codes are written considering a more typical situation where there are different plots of land with different owners in very near proximity to public streets, what the code calls a "public way". Campus type settings where one entity owns a large tract of land with multiple buildings and the access within that property essentially involves pretending that buildings are on individual lots and the spaces between are public ways. Most of the walkways in a theme park are considered a public way and ultimately exist outside of the codes. Occupant loads (the max capacity) is information that has to be provided on the construction documents ("blueprints") and you'll see it for the individual buildings but you don't see calculations for the park. The parks are able to keep their maximum capacities so secret because it is not written out on hundreds of pieces of paper.

Even if the maximum occupancy was regulated by the codes, it is something determined by the designer and not the building or fire officials after the fact. Both the fire and building code allow "Standing space" Assembly occupancies that assume a mere 5 square feet per person, a square that is only about 2'-3" x 2'-3". You can't really get much more crammed in than that. Even in other occupancies like retail where the code assumes more space per person (60 SF) it is permissible to declare a higher maximum capacity so long as the space is designed to handle that volume of people.

 

[tirian]

It actually is somewhat true. Building and fire codes regulate occupancy of buildings and generally do not regulate outdoor spaces. The codes are written considering a more typical situation where there are different plots of land with different owners in very near proximity to public streets, what the code calls a "public way". Campus type settings where one entity owns a large tract of land with multiple buildings and the access within that property essentially involves pretending that buildings are on individual lots and the spaces between are public ways. Most of the walkways in a theme park are considered a public way and ultimately exist outside of the codes. Occupant loads (the max capacity) is information that has to be provided on the construction documents ("blueprints") and you'll see it for the individual buildings but you don't see calculations for the park. The parks are able to keep their maximum capacities so secret because it is not written out on hundreds of pieces of paper.

Even if the maximum occupancy was regulated by the codes, it is something determined by the designer and not the building or fire officials after the fact. Both the fire and building code allow "Standing space" Assembly occupancies that assume a mere 5 square feet per person, a square that is only about 2'-3" x 2'-3". You can't really get much more crammed in than that. Even in other occupancies like retail where the code assumes more space per person (60 SF) it is permissible to declare a higher maximum capacity so long as the space is designed to handle that volume of people.

Let alone health guidelines...

As WDW guests have found over the last two months, 35% of a park’s capacity is still busier than it sounds (at least 32,000 allowed into the MK). Then consider the lack of parades and shows, and DL would have a difficult time spreading out 35% capacity. The MK also relies on character M&Gs as capacity, although DL doesn’t.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Let alone health guidelines...

As WDW guests have found over the last two months, 35% of a park’s capacity is still busier than it sounds (at least 32,000 allowed into the MK). Then consider the lack of parades and shows, and DL would have a difficult time spreading out 35% capacity. The MK also relies on character M&Gs as capacity, although DL doesn’t.

Disneyland's reopen would only allow them 25% capacity. Rumored maximum capacity is 60,000- so only 15,000 would be allowed in Disneyland.

Fortunately, despite having the 'blessing of size' and a higher annual attendance, Magic Kingdom in Florida has a fraction of the rides that Disneyland does- so I think Disneyland will be able to handle 15,000 people just fine.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disneyland's reopen would only allow them 25% capacity. Rumored maximum capacity is 60,000- so only 15,000 would be allowed in Disneyland.

Fortunately, despite having the 'blessing of size' and a higher annual attendance, Magic Kingdom in Florida has a fraction of the rides that Disneyland does- so I think Disneyland will be able to handle 15,000 people just fine.

Well, that 'blessing of size' has to do with having four large parks and not just two small ones. Anaheim and Orland both have nearly the same number of rides. But the 'three other' parks in WDW got nine rides each (give or take one) leaving MK to have significantly less rides than DL.

So, the blessing of size has to take into account all the parks.

But, what makes that difficult to do is that for both Anaheim and Orlando, everyone wants to go primarily to the castle park. DCA and 'the other three parks' at WDW don't have the attractive power that the castle parks do because they have fewer rides.

And so, in practice, the two castle parks get compared directly to each other without consideration of the other parks. And in that regard, DL beats MK for capacity.

And that's Disney's fault for not beefing up the non-castle parks.