Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

[Mac Tonight]

Lets make sure we get a couple things clear here, and stop making this political. COVID is ruining people's lives, period. Not the responses from either side of the aisle. We have had no nationwide plan at all, its every state fending for themselves right now. Other leaders in other states that have been more lax aren't doing better with the virus or with their own economies for that matter. In fact Texas for example where things were very lax is worse than California. So the "open everything up and not wear masks" crowd has been proven wrong.

Keeping this related to Disneyland, I don't think anyone is or has been advocating for this approach with the parks. I could be wrong, but I generally feel that everyone who believes Disneyland can re-open safely (including medical professionals) has been in strong support of the safety measures put in place.

So lets not kid ourselves here, no one in this country has had the perfect response. We really just need to hunker down and limp along until the vaccine is ready for mass distribution. The time for blame is over, other than to blame the virus.

I almost let this pass, but as long as we're "making things clear", I just have to say, that statement reeks of privilege. I admit, I don't believe it's done intentionally, and I've seen it before on here, so don't think I'm singling you out. The fact is though, not everyone has the luxury of continuing to be gainfully employed during this pandemic (thousands of Disney employees immediately spring to mind), and so for them, the idea of "hunkering down" and "limping along", means holding onto whatever they have left to avoid outright poverty. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[October82]

I almost let this pass, but as long as we're "making things clear", I just have to say, that statement reeks of privilege. I admit, I don't believe it's done intentionally, and I've seen it before on here, so don't think I'm singling you out. The fact is though, not everyone has the luxury of continuing to be gainfully employed during this pandemic (thousands of Disney employees immediately spring to mind), and so for them, the idea of "hunkering down" and "limping along", means holding onto whatever they have left to avoid outright poverty. Just something to keep in mind.

It is really important to keep this in mind. But it is also really important to understand that Gavin Newsom has very little to do with this. The federal government has repeatedly dropped the ball on protecting workers in industries impacted by the pandemic. Any number of policies would have prevented us from being in this position, and we need to stop acting like the choice between preventing people form getting sick and dying and keeping people employed is anything other than one of our own making.

 

[Disney Irish]

Keeping this related to Disneyland, I don't think anyone is or has been advocating for this approach with the parks. I could be wrong, but I generally feel that everyone who believes Disneyland can re-open safely (including medical professionals) has been in strong support of the safety measures put in place.

Some have insinuated it.

Be that as it may, it calls into question if Disneyland can even "reopening safely" right now if "everyone is following the rules" but cases are still rising.

I almost let this pass, but as long as we're "making things clear", I just have to say, that statement reeks of privilege. I admit, I don't believe it's done intentionally, and I've seen it before on here, so don't think I'm singling you out. The fact is though, not everyone has the luxury of continuing to be gainfully employed during this pandemic (thousands of Disney employees immediately spring to mind), and so for them, the idea of "hunkering down" and "limping along", means holding onto whatever they have to avoid outright poverty. Just something to keep in mind.

This gets into what should be being done at the federal level in terms of extending unemployment benefits. The answer on why it isn't happening gets far too political for this thread. But one that I think should have been part of a nationwide plan that never happened.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Some have insinuated it.

Be that as it may, it calls into question if Disneyland can even "reopening safely" right now if "everyone is following the rules" but cases are still rising.


This gets into what should be being done at the federal level in terms of extending unemployment benefits. The answer on why it isn't happening gets far too political for this thread. But one that I think should have been part of a nationwide plan that never happened.

If everyone is following the rules and cases are still rising... then either the rules aren't working, or people are lying about following them

As for the rest... I shall say nothing more. You're right, this is not the place.

 

[Disney Irish]

If everyone is following the rules and cases are still rising... then either the rules aren't working, or people are lying about following them

Likely more the latter than the former, especially in terms of private gatherings.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I just think it's interesting then that OC Health officials who physically toured Disneyland said it could re-open safely while their counterparts in Sacramento say otherwise.

To clarify. OC Health officials recommended Disneyland could open when OC hit the orange tier instead of yellow. OC has never been in the orange tier. Disneyland would still be closed if their guidelines were followed.

OC health officials recommend Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm, other theme parks reopen

Orange County Health officials have reportedly recommended that the state allow Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm to reopen once the county moves into the less restrictive orange tier.

abc7.com

Regarding Newsom, he should be criticized for his actions. However, that doesn't invalidate what measures the state has taken. People are fallible. People make mistakes. People are hypocritical. All of us.

 

[Mac Tonight]

It is really important to keep this in mind. But it is also really important to understand that Gavin Newsom has very little to do with this. The federal government has repeatedly dropped the ball on protecting workers in industries impacted by the pandemic. Any number of policies would have prevented us from being in this position, and we need to stop acting like the choice between preventing people form getting sick and dying and keeping people employed is anything other than one of our own making.

Huh? Are you saying Gavin has little control over what happens in CA? Concocting a four-tier guidelines system that determines which businesses can be open and when, and what restrictions they must impose on their business if and when they're allowed to operate... doesn't really seem like having, "not much to do with this".

 

[October82]

Huh? Are you saying Gavin has little control over what happens in CA?

All state governors lack adequate authority to address the economic consequences of the pandemic. The economic part of this can only be handled at the federal level through fiscal stimulus and monetary policy. Gavin has some leeway to redirect funds, but the federal government has also made that more difficult by failing in its overall fiscal policy.

Concocting a four-tier guidelines system that determines which businesses can be open and when, and what restrictions they must impose on their business if and when they're allowed to operate... doesn't really seem like having "not much to do with this".

This is one of these situations where its easy to miss the forest for the trees. California's public health guidelines around reopening are the trees, the federal fiscal and monetary policy is the forest. Those rules exist primarily as a patchwork layer on top of the lack of fiscal policy. They're an attempt to balance public health against the lack of a coherent federal level strategy.

 

[Mac Tonight]

All state governors lack adequate authority to address the economic consequences of the pandemic. The economic part of this can only be handled at the federal level through fiscal stimulus and monetary policy. Gavin has some leeway to redirect funds, but the federal government has also made that more difficult by failing in its overall fiscal policy.

So Newsom is just waiting on a big federal bailout then?

This is one of these situations where its easy to miss the forest for the trees. California's public health guidelines around reopening are the trees, the federal fiscal and monetary policy is the forest. Those rules exist primarily as a patchwork layer on top of the lack of fiscal policy. They're an attempt to balance public health against the lack of a coherent federal level strategy.

Not sure if you're aware... but we don't have many trees or forests anymore. They've all burned up :/

Glibness aside, that is helpful to know. Thank you.

 

[October82]

So Newsom is just waiting on a big federal bailout then?

No, Newsom is doing what he has the power to do. We can discuss the effectiveness of how he is balancing competing concerns, but in the absence of federal stimulus, thousands of people are/will continue to be out of work. The problem is not the public health guidelines, but the (literally) tens of billions of dollars that have disappeared from the economy overnight.

The "federal bailout" would primarily keep state governments afloat and prevent austerity measures that will lead to mass layoffs in the public sector and declines in basic services. Stimulus, expansion of unemployment, and direct support for businesses are what we need to keep people from losing their jobs.

Not sure if you're aware... but we don't have many trees or forests anymore. They've all burned up :/

Glibness aside, that is helpful to know. Thank you.

 

[TP2000]

But who knows... maybe this whole event of Gavin getting "caught" will inspire some lawsuits into existence. It surely won't go un-discussed amongst business leaders, that's for sure.

No kidding.

I think it's also going to cause some big industries, like theme parks and restaurants, to reconsider who their lobbyists are up in Sacramento. The lobbyists from the California Medical Association got invited to the same intimate dinner party that Gavin Newsom did, but the theme park chiefs can't even get Newsom to return their calls.

Time for Bob Chapek to rethink Disney's lobbyists and their effectiveness, or lack thereof!

If the guy at the top making the orders is disobeying his own orders, doesn't that convey that:

1) He is above the law
2) The safety orders are not very important

I'd absolutely understand someone now throwing his rules out the door. I'm not like that, but to see the rule maker be the rule breaker instills doubt upon the actual rules.

Those two points are valid. But I think the most important point is that Gavin Newsom is a smart man who knows all the science and data behind Covid and it's impact on Californians. And knowing that information, he purposely put himself and his wife in a situation where all his guidance was broken. Gavin Newsom clearly has done the risk analysis in his brain on Covid and its impacts, and is happy to spend a long evening in a small dining room with a dozen people.

So I would amend and reorder your two points into these three...

1. He understands the risks are low enough to break the rules.
2. He is above the law.
3. The safety of others is not very important (or is just overstated in his own rules he created).

Regarding Newsom, he should be criticized for his actions. However, that doesn't invalidate what measures the state has taken. People are fallible. People make mistakes. People are hypocritical. All of us.

This is a big deal. The media play on this is huge today, and it's national and not just confined to the Sacramento Bee and SF Chronicle. This wasn't just a little mistake. This took purposeful planning days in advance by a team of people working in Sacramento (assistants, security, secretaries), and a two hour drive to Yountville in Friday traffic which should have given him time to change his mind.

Then when Newsom got caught a week after it happened, he and his communications team prepared a statement and initially lied about it and claimed the dinner was "outdoors".

From the San Francisco Chronicle five days ago after the story broke and Newsom's first apology...
“This was a small, intimate, 12-person dinner held outdoors with family and a few close friends to celebrate a 50th birthday,” Weedn said in a statement to the Chronicle.

Now today we learn the dinner was indoors, the "family" consisted of the First Partner, and the "few close friends" consisted of the 10 other people including top executives and lobbyists from the California Medical Association.

That's not just a little "mistake", like forgetting to put your mask on after getting out of the car at Target.

Heat Is On: Photos Raise More Questions About California Gov. Newsom’s Controversial Dinner

The California governor claimed the now-infamous dinner was “outside,” but new photos suggest otherwise.

www.forbes.com

Gov. Newsom joined by California health execs at French Laundry dinner: report

Doctors’ association executives were among the guests at a pricey Napa Valley dinner attended by Gov. Gavin Newsom that saw the Democrat catch heat for being a COVID-19 hypocrite, a new repor…

nypost.com

 

[Mac Tonight]

No, Newsom is doing what he has the power to do. We can discuss the effectiveness of how he is balancing competing concerns, but in the absence of federal stimulus, thousands of people are/will continue to be out of work. The problem is not the public health guidelines, but the (literally) tens of billions of dollars that have disappeared from the economy overnight.

The "federal bailout" would primarily keep state governments afloat and prevent austerity measures that will lead to mass layoffs in the public sector and declines in basic services. Stimulus, expansion of unemployment, and direct support for businesses are what we need to keep people from losing their jobs.

Fair points. He still strikes me as a gigantic dingus, but I wouldn't want his job right now. Or ever, frankly.

 

[TP2000]

For those interested, FOX 11 here in LA has the photos and will be doing a full report on this at 10pm tonight.

 

[Mac Tonight]

OK, I'm sorry, but what is that? Is it a dress? A coat? A robe? Some hybrid of all three?
I'm terribly fashion illiterate.

 

[TP2000]

OK, I'm sorry, but what is that? Is it a dress? A coat? A robe? Some hybrid of all three?
I'm terribly fashion illiterate.

View attachment 514085

It's a calf-length dinner coat covered in ball fringe. Duh.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I think it was the rubber mat that was under the table cloth.

 

[TP2000]

I think it was the rubber mat that was under the table cloth.

I told you, ladies get cold at dinner parties in November!

 

[Mac Tonight]

It's a calf-length dinner coat covered in ball fringe. Duh.

But... is it just my imagination or is it short-sleeved too???

The only Project Runway I know about is the one down at the local airport.

 

[SuddenStorm]

For those interested, FOX 11 here in LA has the photos and will be doing a full report on this at 10pm tonight.

I fully expect (and hope) that you report here on what Fox 11 says tonight, with some added commentary, for those of us who don't feel like tuning in.

 

[TP2000]

But... is it just my imagination or is it short-sleeved too???

The only Project Runway I know about is the one down at the local airport.

That is the First Partner.

It's not a short sleeved coat, it's long sleeved. But she has her arms crossed in front of her, with her hand resting on her chin in a practiced reflective pose as she talks maskless after dinner with a lobbyist from the California Medical Association.