Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

[Disney Irish]

That is an absolutely fascinating interpretation of these rather simple words from the State of California;

You should get tested if you:

• Had close contact with anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19
• Have COVID-19 symptoms
• Get a call from a contact tracer
• Are at high risk

If you think you may have been exposed, call your doctor.

COVID-19 Home

covid19.ca.gov

Once again you're just proving my point. That just states when you SHOULD get tested because you might be infected. No where does that site list when you SHOULDN'T get tested, unless we're looking at different sites.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Until guidelines (not just local, but nationwide) can be 100% enforced, or Covid-testing 100% mandated, or there is a working vaccine, people are just going to keep on doing what people do best... aka, whatever the heck they want. It's in our nature. Obviously, that's not the answer anyone wants, and frankly, it shouldn't be what we as people are known for, but it has to be acknowledged. Selfishness will be our ultimate downfall. How do you tell people to care about others... or better yet, how do you enforce that?

You’re making a rather Hobbesian argument against a free society. A free society does not work when people behave as you describe. You can find ancient Roman writing about how civic duty is so important to the health and vitality of the republic. We have seen a dismaying acceptance of the “Princely” idea that the end justifies the means, including outright lying if it means attacking your political opponent. We are seeing here the exact same process that has created problems at bigger sites like Facebook and Twitter. Trolling and [expletive]posting are found humorous and encouraged, a process that normalizes bad information as a “different” point of view. We now have in this thread not just skepticism about severity or the efficacy of mandated responses, but telling people to just outright ignore the overwhelming consensus of medical and public health experts, something easy to figure out with the basic information we all have about the virus. And while it’s easy to say “People should not get medical information from a Disney site“ we can see evidence of how it does encourage or at least help rationalize such behavior in the praise it receives. It’s easy not to do something when you can tell yourself others are acting likewise,

But more to your point, if you're looking for a reason this thread (and many before it) have gone "political", I think it's because for the last several months, we've been witness to an ongoing "Newsom vs Disney" battle, where it's been almost impossible to not draw distinctions and pick "sides". And since Newsom is a political figure... I mean... I really don't know how you avoid bringing politics into it.

Remember, Newsom originally exempted theme parks from the business restrictions. The bunk started well before that. Going back to before the virus was even really in the US we had the same sort of misinformation being posted here. You had the same characters calling it a flu virus, not just making a bad comparison, even after the genome had been sequenced and it was identified as a coronavirus. Horrible comments about Chinese people were also peppered in for flavor.

 

[TP2000]

Perhaps then, you also feel it is safe to apologize and admit you were wrong.

Quoting you again because I see Governor Newsom issued a second apology statement on this a few hours ago, 10 days after it happened and 3 days after he got caught. His latest statement...

“I made a bad mistake,” Newsom said. “I should have stood up and drove back to my house. The spirit of what I’m preaching all the time was contradicted,” he added. “I need to preach and practice, not just preach.”

‘I made a bad mistake’: Newsom apologizes for attending French Laundry dinner party

California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday apologized for what he called “a bad mistake” in attending a birthday party that broke the very rules that he has been preaching to slow the spread of the cor…

ktla.com

He's also claiming that the dinner was held outside, which I find hard to believe because according to accuweather.com the high in Yountville on November 6th was 58 and the low was 44. The sun set at 5:03pm that day. Let's say the dinner started at 6pm instead of the more likely 7pm, as by 6pm it was already 55 degrees in Yountville and cooling off towards 44 quickly. And we are to believe that the dinner was held outdoors for three hours in temps in the mid to low 50's?

I think that's a slight stretching of the truth, as the private dining room for 12 at The French Laundry has sliding patio doors that look out onto a garden. You have to walk outside to get to this pavilion and dining room, but once the dinner started at 6pm you know darn well the ladies in the group needed pashminas passed out to them and those sliding doors closed. Brrr!!!

Otherwise, Governor Newsom who has also issued clear Guidance on how theme parks in California may eventually able to reopen at 25% capacity, violated the following Mandatory Guidelines on Gatherings that he released on October 9th as I've very helpfully notated next to the official requirements below in red italics...

Mandatory Requirements For All Gatherings, California Department of Public Health

• Gatherings that include more than 3 households are prohibited. (That bolded emphasis is from the state's website. Newsom's birthday party had 12 people in attendance from 6 different households.)
• All gatherings must be held outside. Attendees may go inside to use restrooms as long as the restrooms are frequently sanitized. (The private dining room at The French Laundry is inside a building.)
• Gatherings may occur in outdoor spaces that are covered by umbrellas, canopies, awnings, roofs, and other shade structures provided that at least three sides of the space (or 75%) are open to the outdoors. (The private dining room at The French Laundry has only 25% of the space able to open to the outdoors. Temps were in the low 50's and dropping that evening.)
• Seating must provide at least 6 feet of distance (in all directions—front-to-back and side-to-side) between different households. (The private dining room, and all tables at The French Laundry as seen above, have seats with no more than one foot between them.)
• Gatherings should be two hours or less. (The French Laundry only has one meal option; a 9 course chef's tasting menu that takes a minimum of 3 hours in the main dining room, longer for private dining celebrations.)
• Singing, chanting, and shouting are strongly discouraged. People who are singing are strongly encouraged to do so quietly. (It was a 50th birthday party. It is unknown if the celebrants sang Happy Birthday, but let's pray that if they did, they did so quietly.)

CDPH Guidance for the Prevention of COVID-19 Transmission for Gatherings 10 09

www.cdph.ca.gov

I can not wait for Disneyland to reopen and see what happens when someone tries to complain to Sacramento about a birthday party on the patio of the Plaza Inn. Let's hope the TDA spokesman remembers this little birthday party at The French Laundry as a point of reference.

 

[TP2000]

Once again you're just proving my point. That just states when you SHOULD get tested because you might be infected. No where does that site list when you SHOULDN'T get tested, unless we're looking at different sites.

I don't think that's proving the point you think its proving. If the State of California wants people to get tested even if they have no symptoms, then the State of California should probably start saying that. Because currently they aren't. This is what they currently say:

You should get tested if you:

• Had close contact with anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19
• Have COVID-19 symptoms
• Get a call from a contact tracer
• Are at high risk

If you think you may have been exposed, call your doctor.

COVID-19 Home

covid19.ca.gov

 

[Stevek]

I hope I get earlier access to the vaccine because I'm an Essential Frontline Worker. But I think Gavin and the other nuts in charge of the state want to delay distribution of the vaccine and extend the pandemic. I'm with TP, I don't think they want this to end.

Drive to Vegas or Arizona.

I personally can't believe they don't want this to end. I don't know what that mentality serves...they can't want the economy of California to continue to suffer needlessly. I certainly hope they don't have any say in vaccine distribution.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think that's proving the point you think its proving. If the State of California wants people to get tested even if they have no symptoms, then the State of California should probably start saying that. Because currently they aren't. This is what they currently say:

You should get tested if you:

• Had close contact with anyone who has tested positive for COVID-19
• Have COVID-19 symptoms
• Get a call from a contact tracer
• Are at high risk

If you think you may have been exposed, call your doctor.

COVID-19 Home

covid19.ca.gov

You read it your way and I'll read it mine. Unless the state specifically says "DON'T GET TESTED UNLESS YOU'RE SICK AND HAVE SYMPTOMS", I'm going to continue getting tested and suggest others do the same.

And again bringing this back to the county metrics, the counties are specifically encouraged to increase testing. Its right in the metrics, increase testing and you get that "gold star" by getting the case rate adjustment. Increase the testing in the poverty stricken areas of the county and you get the "two gold stars" by also getting the equity metric adjustment.

Point is if you're only waiting to test people when they show symptoms then its too late, they are likely already sick. What the testing is trying to capture is those that not only have symptoms but also those that are walking around asymptomatic spreading it making others sick. And you can't do that if you're only testing those with symptoms. Meaning you have to test those that are feeling fine also.

 

[Stevek]

You read it your way and I'll read it mine. Unless the state specifically says "DON'T GET TESTED UNLESS YOU'RE SICK AND HAVE SYMPTOMS", I'm going to continue getting tested and suggest others do the same.

And again bringing this back to the county metrics, the counties are specifically encouraged to increase testing. Its right in the metrics, increase testing and you get that "gold star" by getting the case rate adjustment. Increase the testing in the poverty stricken areas of the county and you get the "two gold stars" by also getting the equity metric adjustment.

Point is if you're only waiting to test people when they show symptoms then its too late, they are likely already sick. What the testing is trying to capture is those that not only have symptoms but also those that are walking around asymptomatic spreading it making others sick. And you can't do that if you're only testing those with symptoms. Meaning you have to test those that are feeling fine also.

We got tested a while ago, I have zero issues getting tested again if I don't have symptoms or risk issues given there are tons of testing options out here now. It's available to anyone who wants it, regardless of symptoms, not sure why anyone would care if someone else got tested regularly.

 

[TP2000]

We got tested a while ago, I have zero issues getting tested again if I don't have symptoms or risk issues given there are tons of testing options out here now. It's available to anyone who wants it, regardless of symptoms, not sure why anyone would care if someone else got tested regularly.

Agreed. The testing options in OC are plentiful, free, and easy. The USA is doing well over a million tests per day now. The USA has completed over 170 Million tests so far, over half the population, as of today. California has completed 21 Million tests, over half its population, as of today.

But have you seen any messaging or marketing encouraging those of us without symptoms or ill health to go get tested, and tested again, just for tracking purposes? I haven't.

The only messaging I've seen about COVID testing boils down to that on the state website I posted above; if you have symptoms (or are instructed to do so by a doctor or contact tracer), go get tested.

 

[Stevek]

Agreed. The testing options in OC are plentiful, free, and easy. But have you seen any messaging or marketing encouraging those of us without symptoms or ill health to go get tested, and tested again, just for tracking purposes? I haven't.

The only messaging I've seen about COVID testing is that if you have symptoms, go get tested.

We saw quite a bit out here in Riverside county where they were trying to have lots of testing knowing that the positivity rate was low at the time. They wanted more tests, less positives, more things could open. Now, that strategy may be more problematic.

 

[TP2000]

We saw quite a bit out here in Riverside county where they were trying to have lots of testing knowing that the positivity rate was low at the time. They wanted more tests, less positives, more things could open. Now, that strategy may be more problematic.

We haven't seen that in OC, nor have I seen it on any TV or radio media in SoCal lately. This is the current flowchart from the OC Health Department website, and since I have no symptoms and no comorbidities, testing is "not recommended".

 

[Mac Tonight]

You’re making a rather Hobbesian argument against a free society. A free society does not work when people behave as you describe. You can find ancient Roman writing about how civic duty is so important to the health and vitality of the republic. We have seen a dismaying acceptance of the “Princely” idea that the end justifies the means, including outright lying if it means attacking your political opponent. We are seeing here the exact same process that has created problems at bigger sites like Facebook and Twitter. Trolling and [expletive]posting are found humorous and encouraged, a process that normalizes bad information as a “different” point of view. We now have in this thread not just skepticism about severity or the efficacy of mandated responses, but telling people to just outright ignore the overwhelming consensus of medical and public health experts, something easy to figure out with the basic information we all have about the virus. And while it’s easy to say “People should not get medical information from a Disney site“ we can see evidence of how it does encourage or at least help rationalize such behavior in the praise it receives. It’s easy not to do something when you can tell yourself others are acting likewise,

Yeah... I'm not gonna pretend I didn't have to look up what a Hobbesian argument was... lol.

All I'm saying is, in a free society it would be nice if people just took it upon themselves to always do the right thing and do their civic duty, but you don't have to look far to see that's clearly not the attitude coming from our society. I admit, I haven't done a great job in these threads at standing up against obvious exaggerations and lies, and for that I apologize.

Remember, Newsom originally exempted theme parks from the business restrictions. The bunk started well before that. Going back to before the virus was even really in the US we had the same sort of misinformation being posted here. You had the same characters calling it a flu virus, not just making a bad comparison, even after the genome had been sequenced and it was identified as a coronavirus. Horrible comments about Chinese people were also peppered in for flavor.

Honestly, I think I've mentally blocked out the early months of this pandemic. I got married in June, so things before that were kind of a blur. I know I've had a tendency for glib responses in these threads (even today) and so for that, I apologize.

I'm really re-assessing my time and attitude on here, and am committed to making some changes.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Yeah... I'm not gonna pretend I didn't have to look up what a Hobbesian argument was... lol.

All I'm saying is, in a free society it would be nice if people just took it upon themselves to always do the right thing and do their civic duty, but you don't have to look far to see that's clearly not the attitude coming from our society. I admit, I haven't done a great job in these threads at standing up against obvious exaggerations and lies, and for that I apologize.

Honestly, I think I've mentally blocked out the early months of this pandemic. I got married in June, so things before that were kind of a blur. I know I've had a tendency for glib responses in these threads (even today) and so for that, I apologize.

I'm really re-assessing my time and attitude on here, and am committed to making some changes.

Congrats on getting Hitched!

 

[Mac Tonight]

Congrats on getting Hitched!

Thanks! It was certainly memorable. Held in my parent's backyard, immediate family only in attendance, with Zoom link for the rest of our guests. Definitely not what we spent months planning, but turned out pretty!

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

You can't get married in the Pandemic. That's rule 798 in Gavin's Guidelines for Better Living.

 

[Mac Tonight]

You can't get married in the Pandemic. That's rule 798 in Gavin's Guidelines for Better Living.

Oops! Actually, our officiant wrote the wrong date down on the license so, for awhile there, we technically weren't married.

 

[Disney Irish]

We haven't seen that in OC, nor have I seen it on any TV or radio media in SoCal lately. This is the current flowchart from the OC Health Department website, and since I have no symptoms and no comorbidities, testing is "not recommended".

Well then shouldn't OC be encouraging more testing rather than saying its not recommended? Especially if there is such an economic incentive for OC by reopening things faster by getting that case rate and health equity adjustments in the metrics by testing more.

 

[Disney Irish]

BTW, other states are now going even stricter than California:

 

[lazyboy97o]

BTW, other states are now going even stricter than California:

[Insert comment about how Reynolds should be ignored because she dresses poorly.]

 

[TP2000]

Well then shouldn't OC be encouraging more testing rather than saying its not recommended? Especially if there is such an economic incentive for OC by reopening things faster by getting that case rate and health equity adjustments in the metrics by testing more.

Maybe someone in Sacramento could reach out and explain it to them? I imagine they have phones and email access in Sacramento, and would know the health authority contact numbers for each county.

Also maybe start a marketing campaign, get it out on the TV news and such? Because currently the general thought, in addition to all the official communication on the various state government websites is "If you have symptoms, go get tested".

The general thought in SoCal is not "If you feel fine and are symptom-free, go get tested every two weeks anyway to help get a gold star from Sacramento".

But... wouldn't a whole bunch of healthy people clogging up the testing system every week just make it more difficult for those who actually have symptoms for COVID? Or am I just being too stupid? Again.

 

[truecoat]

BTW, other states are now going even stricter than California:

It's now attacking the rural areas due to lax following of protocols. The lack of decent medical facilities in rural areas now put a strain on the regional ones. In a couple weeks, if you have a serious reaction to Covid, good luck finding a hospital bed and in some states it's almost too late.