The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[ford91exploder]

Maybe they're taking it slow?
If you squeeze something too much, people will get bored or "overloaded" by it.. causing them to go elsewhere.
They might or not have a full plan on using the franchise..

If TWDC does not have a plan they are either STUPID or LAZY The last movie came out what a decade ago and the franchise is even MORE popular than it was then.

 

[theRIOT]

Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder in what year Captain Neo was fired by Eisner?
So much anger. It's almost as if it were personal. Not just someone who says "I don't like what he did to my beloved Disney world/land/company.

 

[wdisney9000]

Star Wars will come. They just may wait until the new movies start to be released.

Why not build a "land" now based of something from the new SW movies? People would flock to see it and it would only boost merch sales a bazillion times over. It would be finished a short time after the first movie is released if they get on it. Instead they went the Avatar way. Consider how many people and websites and blogs are already up regarding the new Star Wars films compared to Avatar. I dont know know one single person that cares about Avatar or the sequel. Waste of time/money compared to what Star Wars will bring. I can only guess its Igers ego getting in the way. SMH

They have StarWars toys and Star Wars Lego's and they really love that stuff, I don't understand why Disney is messing with Avatar unless they are completely unaware of popular culture, Even at work there is star wars stuff on people's desks etc. Avatar nope - none to be found anywhere...

I would bet the sales from light sabres alone are far greater than EVERYTHING toy related to Avatar. Heck, light sabre sales may very well be higher than dvd and blu ray sales of Crapatar.

 

[GoofGoof]

I honestly can't tell you any Disney attraction created during Eisner's second decade that I truly enjoyed and is regarded as a classic. Everything was so value engineered and poorly fleshed out.

For example let's look at the Asian Boat ride at DAK. Originally it was going to be a wonderful Pirates of the Caribbean style boat ride through the jungle with live animals kind of like a water based Kilimanjaro Safari:

That was deemed too costly and not thrilling enough. So the concept was changed to a white water raft ride since those were big at the time. The ride became Tiger River Rapids and Joe Rhode and his team still intended for it to have beautiful theming and animal exhibits (I just can't recall now if it was going to have real tigers or animatronic tigers or both). Unfortuanatly, despite going in a more thrilling and shorter direction the ride got its budget cut again to remove anything to do with animals from the ride. Rhode then changed the ride to be about deforestation with a single show scene showing a lumber yard burning and some very modest theming through the attraction.

Having been hyped reading Disney's official magazine and internet articles about the Asian ride throughout it's development you can imagine my disappointment when Kali River Rapids opened and was just a brief 2 minute raft ride with bare bone theming. This is just one example out of dozens I can give about how under Eisner rides would consistently get announced and then totally fail to deliver not because of the imagineers but because people he put into power like Paul Pressler, Cynthia Harris, Jay Rasulo, and the whole strategic planning department (which was Eisner's baby) deemed it unnecessary to spend so much money on attractions when simple ones would still pull in the crowds. This is the complete inverse of Eisner's first decade at the helm where Frank Wells was insist that it "takes money to make money" and they would spend lavishly on new attractions like Splash Mountain, Indiana Jones Adventure, and Star Tours.

Serious question, how many rides built at WDW during the Iger years are actually better than Kali River Rapids? It's a short list for me and Kali is not exactly the best of the Eisner era.

 

[Nubs70]

That ruling was a LONG time coming,

Notre Dame's fall from the leadership of college football was directly tied to the fact that ND expects you to be a ND graduate FIRST and an athlete second, Many of us from Harvard were AMAZED (and VERY pleased) that Harvard made it to the finals but once again at Harvard you are expected to be a HARVARD graduate FIRST and Athletics are just for fun (THE GAME notwithstanding - It always feels good to beat the Eli's).

In too many schools 'student' athletes just serve the athletic program which operates at a loss so the entire school is negatively affected, I think college athletics are going to change dramatically over the next few years and ESPN I'm not sure is up to the challenge.

The NCAA will also need to change in light of this, What I'd really like to see is College athletes be REQUIRED to take a demanding academic program because the reality is while there are THOUSANDS of college athletes there are only a few hundred jobs in all of the BIG leagues, Right now too many college athletic programs are merely farm teams for the professional leagues.

IF the students actually GRADUATED with a worthwhile degree they could actually do something post athletic career instead of 'Do you want fries with that'.

To that end I've always felt that students should not be eligible for the pro draft until their senior year, If not perhaps for each student who leaves before they graduate we take away 2 scholarship slots in that program so as to encourage the colleges to actually GRADUATE their athletic scholarship students.

Just my opinion,
Higher education is a means to increase your earning potential. Scholarship, academic or athletic, is a means to finance your education. For the select few that make it into the professional athletic ranks, they are able to maximize earning potential through sport. For the vast majority of those who finance education through athletics and do not make it to the professional athletic ranks, they still have increased their earning potential. Those that finance through athletic scholarship have advantages/opportunities that academic scholars and self financed scholars do not.

Therefore, it is my considered opinion that scholar athletes do not need the additional advantage of being paid as they are already enjoying opportunities above that of academic scholars and self financed students.

 

[Nubs70]

Why not build a "land" now based of something from the new movies? People would flock to see it and it would only boost merch sales a bazillion times over. It would be finished a short time after the first movie is released if they get on it. Instead they went the Avatar way. Consider how many people and websites and blogs are already up regarding the new Star Wars films compared to Avatar. I dont know know one single person that cares about Avatar or the sequel. Waste of time/money compared to what Star Wars will bring. I can only guess its Igers ego getting in the way. SMH



I would bet the sales from light sabres alone are far greater than EVERYTHING toy related to Avatar. Heck, light sabre sales may very well be higher than dvd and blu ray sales of Crapatar.

If they built a new land based on the latest movies we would be stuck with a value engineered John Carter Land.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Under Bob Iger's leadership:

-There has been a renewed sense of pride at Walt Disney Animation. In large part to the acquisition of Pixar and putting their top people John Lasseter and Ed Catmull in charge of revamping the then edge-of-closure animation house. Thanks to me people no longer ignore or cringe when Disney announces a new movie. Now just like it was when I was little during the Katzenberg era fans/children/etc. can look forward with the next movie with excitement that it will be a quality product that will be entertaining for all ages. Films like Tangled, Frozen, and Big Hero Six are putting WDFA back on the map as the premier American animation house the way it ought to be. With the acquisition of Pixar, Disney can output 2 quality animated feature films a year without rushing productions. On top of that short films are back playing before movies, non ironic Mickey Mouse cartoons are playing on Disney channels, no more direct to video sequel money grabs that corrode the brand, Disney's tv cartoons are back at a level they haven't been since the mid 90s with shows such as Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers, the upcoming Star Wars Rebels, the previously mentioned new Mickey Mouse cartoons, and the short-lived Tron Uprising series (A shame a lot of people ignored it as it was an outstanding series and now available on Netflix so check it out!)

-After attempting an ambitious revival of Mickey Mouse and Oswald in the world of gaming with Epic Mickey. Disney has found a niche in the video game industry with their hit game Disney Infininty as well as beautiful HD remakes of old SNES and Sega Genesis classics like Castle of Illusion and Ducktales: The Video game. This is all in addition to the legendary Kingdom Hearts series that currently has a third installment in the works for next generation game consoles.

-Thanks to Bob Iger, I and millions of other fans can actually be excited about Star Wars and Indiana Jones again. No longer having to dread how Lucas is going to mess it up or make it more childish. I know that he will treat Lucasfilm with the same respect that he has given Pixar and Marvel (and they have SOARED to new heights under Iger) and with Lucas now retired, Kathleen Kennedy in charge and folks like Lawerence Kasdan back in the saddle we can rest easy knowing that Star Wars Trilogy 3 and the inevitable new adventures of Indiana Jones will be of the highest quality.

-Bob Iger and Tom Staggs have commited to a quality over quantity approach to the Disney theme park empire. Whereas Eisner would green light cheap, inexpensive attractions to the parks (DINO RAMA anyone?) often times replacing beloved experiences (the entirety of Epcot Center, Tiki Room, The Peoplemover, etc.) with new cringe worthy versions (See the current crop of Epcot rides that nobody is happy with, Tiki Room Under NEW management, empty people mover tracks). Eisner and his team are also directly responsible for closing many attractions without any replacement (America Sings, 20k Under the Sea, The Skyway, the canoes at WDW, I can go and on) as well slashing maintenance costs that resulted in the deaths of several people (Eisner made his homegirl Cynthia Harris take the fall for that tragedy on Big Thunder Mountain) and Disneyland's Space Mountain was on the verge of a serious disaster when it was shut down for 3 years for "extensive refurbishment". Iger has been far more careful with what goes on at the parks, the additions have been far more meaningful mainly using unused land in creative ways rather than replacing beloved attractions. New Fantasyland restores an area that was sitting abandoned for over a decade and breathed some new life in the tired Magic Kingdom, Cars Land was built on what used to be an auxiliary parking lot, and the upcoming Avatar Land at Disney's Animal Kingdom will also use unused land (well unless you count CMM which most won't and even then they are keeping the Lion King show and actually moving it to an area where it's appropriate to appease fans). Indeed one could argue that the few times they have gone and in and redone an existing attraction it was for the better (Star Tours 2, Tron Track). If Eisner was still in charge we would not be getting Avatar Land, Cars Land would have just been a barebones version of Radiator Springs Racers, there would be no star tours upgrades because he continuously ed off George Lucas with his budget cutting, and Maelstorm would already be replaced with a Frozen overlay that would remove all uniqueness and mystique from the attraction, replace the animatronics with a few static figures littered through the ride, and call it a major new addition to Epcot Center. Don't even try to deny it you all saw DINO RAMA, Stitch's Great Escape, DCA's version of Tower of Terror and Expedition Everest. You know Eisner's MO and what he thinks is acceptable.

In Conclusion, Bob Iger will be hailed a hero when he steps down from the CEO position in about 2 years time (Something Eisner never wanted to do because he was a power hungry and arrogant maniac who felt he OWNED the company) for saving a company that was on it's way to becoming irrelevant forever.

I think you make some excellent points regarding other areas of the company, but it's really a hard sell to say that Bob Iger has been anything but bad to the stateside parks.

 

[71jason]

Therefore, it is my considered opinion that scholar athletes do not need the additional advantage of being paid as they are already enjoying opportunities above that of academic scholars and self financed students.

Interesting opinion, but it has zero to do with the Northwestern decision. Have you read it? Of the 11 or 12 requests by the proto-union, only one--possibly receiving compensation for use of student's names/likenesses--involve any form of "being paid." The opinion said flat-out the football players are being paid--with scholarships, basically as you suggest. What the opinion goes onto say is that the requirements the University places on football players are so strict--literally controlling every waking hour for weeks at a time--that their obligations constitute a job. Which makes them employees and therefore eligible to form a union.

 

[spacemt354]

I honestly can't tell you any Disney attraction created during Eisner's second decade that I truly enjoyed and is regarded as a classic. Everything was so value engineered and poorly fleshed out.

That was deemed too costly and not thrilling enough. So the concept was changed to a white water raft ride since those were big at the time. The ride became Tiger River Rapids and Joe Rhode and his team still intended for it to have beautiful theming and animal exhibits (I just can't recall now if it was going to have real tigers or animatronic tigers or both). Unfortuanatly, despite going in a more thrilling and shorter direction the ride got its budget cut again to remove anything to do with animals from the ride. Rhode then changed the ride to be about deforestation with a single show scene showing a lumber yard burning and some very modest theming through the attraction.

Having been hyped reading Disney's official magazine and internet articles about the Asian ride throughout it's development you can imagine my disappointment when Kali River Rapids opened and was just a brief 2 minute raft ride with bare bone theming. This is just one example out of dozens I can give about how under Eisner rides would consistently get announced and then totally fail to deliver not because of the imagineers but because people he put into power like Paul Pressler, Cynthia Harris, Jay Rasulo, and the whole strategic planning department (which was Eisner's baby) deemed it unnecessary to spend so much money on attractions when simple ones would still pull in the crowds. This is the complete inverse of Eisner's first decade at the helm where Frank Wells was insist that it "takes money to make money" and they would spend lavishly on new attractions like Splash Mountain, Indiana Jones Adventure, and Star Tours.

You use one example to universally define decades of work. And the example you use (Kali River Rapids) is a better attraction, budget cuts and all, than anything that has been produced in the Iger era at WDW.

Eisner's second decade (1994-2004)

Additions: Wilderness Lodge, Wedding Pavilion, WDW Speedway, Boardwalk, Downtown Disney West Side, All-Star Resorts, Coronado Springs, Disney's Wide World of Sports, Saratoga Springs, Pop Century Resort.

Attractions: Blizzard Beach, Animal Kingdom, Test Track, Rockin' Roller Coaster, Fantasmic, Disney Quest, and several other additions at the Magic Kingdom including Buzz Lightyear, Alien Encounter, Phillarmagic, Winnie the Pooh, etc.

Tiger River Rapids is a metaphor for how current Disney management deals with attractions and budgets. It's their universal philosophy to cut costs. That is not distinguishable between the two CEO eras. Look at NFL, look at the Mine Train. Entire parks used to be built in the time it is taking a family coaster to be constructed. You don't think the reason for the delay is to spread out costs across quarters to make the bottom line look more attractive to stock holders? The same things you are criticizing past managements for, are happening today.

Remember you can't spell Tiger River Rapids without "Iger" in the middle

 

[Captain Neo]

You use one example to universally define decades of work. And the example you use (Kali River Rapids) is a better attraction, budget cuts and all, than anything that has been produced in the Iger era at WDW.

edit: I had a response but I'm not going to bother. I disagree with this statement as I'm sure most guests would. You missed the point of my Kali River Rapids example too. It wasn't just an isolated incident. Under Eisner's management team, attractions would get the green light and be shown to the public and then completely fail to deliver due to budget cuts. Same thing happened with Expedition Everest. There was a lot of talk initially that it would have multiple Yeti AA's and actual theming inside of the building (the concept art even showns a far grander version of the attraction). What we ended up with was a building that looks nice from the outside (as long as you don't stare at the backside of it from the parking lot) but is just a barebones coaster in darkness inside with 1 yeti AA at the end that doesn't even work. Compare that to Matterhorn Mountain at Disneyland that is fully themed all around the mountain, has actual show scenes and ice caverns, multiple AAs, etc. That is how Disney is supposed to theme a ride.

 

[SirLink]

Really? Kali River Rapids is better than Star Tours 2 and even Tron track? I don't think so sir

Oh oh oh I saw what you did there saying that The Little Mermaid and Snow White Coaster are/were better than Kali...

But onto your point of refurbs of two prior attractions ... if GM weren't the ones footing the bill you wouldn't get Tron track ... and Star Tours whilst it was good it was a refurb not a brand new attraction....

The issue that you seemingly missing Anticitizen Zero is that 1)Best looking and designed park Stateside for Disney. 2)Animals and welfare cost more than attractions...WDI just overspent the boat again.

 

[The Mom]

Interesting opinion, but it has zero to do with the Northwestern decision. Have you read it? Of the 11 or 12 requests by the proto-union, only one--possibly receiving compensation for use of student's names/likenesses--involve any form of "being paid." The opinion said flat-out the football players are being paid--with scholarships, basically as you suggest. What the opinion goes onto say is that the requirements the University places on football players are so strict--literally controlling every waking hour for weeks at a time--that their obligations constitute a job. Which makes them employees and therefore eligible to form a union.

Would it also make them eligible for income tax?

 

[ChrisFL]

The issue that you seemingly missing Anticitizen Zero is that 1)Best looking and designed park Stateside for Disney.

Wait, you're saying that DAK is the best looking and designed....seriously?

 

[GoofGoof]

You use one example to universally define decades of work. And the example you use (Kali River Rapids) is a better attraction, budget cuts and all, than anything that has been produced in the Iger era at WDW.

Eisner's second decade (1994-2004)

Additions: Wilderness Lodge, Wedding Pavilion, WDW Speedway, Boardwalk, Downtown Disney West Side, All-Star Resorts, Coronado Springs, Disney's Wide World of Sports, Saratoga Springs, Pop Century Resort.

Attractions: Blizzard Beach, Animal Kingdom, Test Track, Rockin' Roller Coaster, Fantasmic, Disney Quest, and several other additions at the Magic Kingdom including Buzz Lightyear, Alien Encounter, Phillarmagic, Winnie the Pooh, etc.

Tiger River Rapids is a metaphor for how current Disney management deals with attractions and budgets. It's their universal philosophy to cut costs. That is not distinguishable between the two CEO eras. Look at NFL, look at the Mine Train. Entire parks used to be built in the time it is taking a family coaster to be constructed. You don't think the reason for the delay is to spread out costs across quarters to make the bottom line look more attractive to stock holders? The same things you are criticizing past managements for, are happening today.

Remember you can't spell Tiger River Rapids without "Iger" in the middle

Iger took over in 2005. Here's a list of new major attractions at WDW since he took over:

2005 Soarin
2006 Expedition Everest
2007 Monsters Inc Laugh Floor
2008 Toy Story Midway Mania
2008 PI closes
2009 American Idol Experience
2011 Star Tours reboot
2011 Disney Jr live
2012 Little Mermaid and the rest of FLE (minus mine train)
2012 Test Track reboot
2014 Mine Train

Soarin and EE were greenlit and construction started under Eisner so I don't count them as "Iger attractions". I don't count the reboots of Star Tours or Test Track as new rides either but both were well done IMHO. So for me TSMM and LM are the only 2 rides that could compete with Kali. Mine Train should be the third. At most 3 rides in 9 years that even come close to Kali River Rapids which is not in the top 10 under Eisner.

 

[WDWDad13]

Star Wars is coming..and in a big way....lots of plans and ideas around this and the "10 year plan" is so it can be done the right way....regardless of when they start it won't be soon enough for us I get it and I'm with you too

when the steam runs out of HP (and the fake steam train), Disney will land with Star Wars after Pandora which is also going to be full of surprises

Competition is a good thing for us fans

 

[yellowstone7123]

Would it also make them eligible for income tax?

I believe that the scholarships are currently exempt up to the cost of tuition, room and board. If this stands up in court, that will probably change.

But right now this is just a regional federal bureau decision. It will certainly be appealed but if the NLRB in DC upholds it, you can expect to see court challenges after that, and the NLRB has not done well in court recently.

If this does go to court, and it survives, athletic scholarships will probably end at most schools.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

edit: I had a response but I'm not going to bother. I disagree with this statement as I'm sure most guests would. You missed the point of my Kali River Rapids example too. It wasn't just an isolated incident. Under Eisner's management team, attractions would get the green light and be shown to the public and then completely fail to deliver due to budget cuts. Same thing happened with Expedition Everest. There was a lot of talk initially that it would have multiple Yeti AA's and actual theming inside of the building (the concept art even showns a far grander version of the attraction). What we ended up with was a building that looks nice from the outside (as long as you don't stare at the backside of it from the parking lot) but is just a barebones coaster in darkness inside with 1 yeti AA at the end that doesn't even work. Compare that to Matterhorn Mountain at Disneyland that is fully themed all around the mountain, has actual show scenes and ice caverns, multiple AAs, etc. That is how Disney is supposed to theme a ride.

And yet with all those problems and downgrades Everest has, it's still a superior ride to anything built at WDW under Iger's reign. Value engineering and all. It very much sucks that it was so downgraded and does indeed feel incomplete, but i'd still label it a good and solid ride. Way more praise than i'd ever give anything that has happened at WDW under Iger. And it was a sign that things may actually have started to improve under Eisner, Everest was the best new ride at WDW in years and was at the very least "good" unlike the crushing mediocrity of every WDW park project under Iger.

The yeti not working is also hardly Eisner's fault. He was long gone from the company by the time the ride opened and the animatronic started to have issues. Or all the other effects switched off on the ride. Higher ups also know about the issue and have yet to do anything about it. Joe Rohde certainly has expressed his distaste to the higher ups about this problem.

Star Wars is coming..and in a big way....lots of plans and ideas around this and the "10 year plan" is so it can be done the right way....regardless of when they start it won't be soon enough for us I get it and I'm with you too

when the steam runs out of HP (and the fake steam train), Disney will land with Star Wars after Pandora which is also going to be full of surprises

Competition is a good thing for us fans

Probably best not to pretend like you know anything about these projects. All indications are that Universal will have King Kong finished long before Avatar is close to done, and likely be well underway on construction on their NEXT project before Avatar is finished as well (if New Fantasyland is any indication, one also shouldn't count on a 2017 opening regardless of what Iger tells you, he originally said 2015 for FLE a few years ago). Harry Potter isn't showing signs of being forgotten (the popularity will cool off, but it will be seen as a beloved classic even in the far future). They've quite clearly got numerous grand plans far past Potter, the leaders have made it clear that they're not about to stop investing heavily in the parks for the foreseeable future. With the $2.5 billion and rising debacle Iger's got to cover up, it's time to brace ourselves for the inevitability of crippling budget cuts and value engineering on future projects (if not outright cancellation).

 

[wdwfan4ver]

when the steam runs out of HP (and the fake steam train), Disney will land with Star Wars after Pandora which is also going to be full of surprises

You shouldn't be so sure about Harry Potter running out of steam. Harry Potter is under time less Franchise. Remember, the books came out before the movies. The Potter books were big sellers before the movies.

Books in the past have became popular one generation to the next like Lord of the Rings has. Potter is pointing at the same direction.

 

[ford91exploder]

Just my opinion,
Higher education is a means to increase your earning potential. Scholarship, academic or athletic, is a means to finance your education. For the select few that make it into the professional athletic ranks, they are able to maximize earning potential through sport. For the vast majority of those who finance education through athletics and do not make it to the professional athletic ranks, they still have increased their earning potential. Those that finance through athletic scholarship have advantages/opportunities that academic scholars and self financed scholars do not.

Therefore, it is my considered opinion that scholar athletes do not need the additional advantage of being paid as they are already enjoying opportunities above that of academic scholars and self financed students.

In principle I agree with you, However at the athletic powerhouses the 'student athletes' are treated as employees and expected to sacrifice their academic careers for the benefit of the athletic department. Further as part of this so called 'scholarship' they are not allowed to hold down a job to meet their expenses.

The schools so far have been able to have it both ways, I think this draws the line in the sand the kids in this program are either STUDENTS and expected to meet the same academic standards as the rest of the school, Or they are professional ATHLETES employed by the college.

Right now the students in the NCAA Football and basketball have a federal graduation rate of under 50%.

So I think the colleges need to decide are they STUDENTS or EMPLOYEES?

 

[FigmentJedi]

Star Wars is coming..and in a big way....lots of plans and ideas around this and the "10 year plan" is so it can be done the right way....regardless of when they start it won't be soon enough for us I get it and I'm with you too

when the steam runs out of HP (and the fake steam train), Disney will land with Star Wars after Pandora which is also going to be full of surprises

Competition is a good thing for us fans

They're planning Harry Potter spinoff films based on Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them right now with JK Rowling writing them. Plus Potter has proven itself as a timeless franchise, which you can't say about Avatar. Going for Avatar first instead of a Star Wars/Pixar Place expansion for the Studios comes off as some seriously skewed priorities.